Sheaffer ink bottles through time

[Harlequin]

wow! nice shelf, lol!

[amberleadavis]

Very cool and a lot of books on pens and pencils.

[Desultor]

Great resource, thanks!

 

When was Skrip (Royal) Gold produced in bottles? (And how much do you want for a vintage one? I'd love to experiment by mixing my Skrip blue and red with yellow... )

 

Looks like Sheaffer currently only produces cartridges of it. On another thread here on FPN somebody found a bottle once.

[Harlequin]

Great resource, thanks!

 

When was Skrip (Royal) Gold produced in bottles? (And how much do you want for a vintage one? I'd love to experiment by mixing my Skrip blue and red with yellow... )

 

Looks like Sheaffer currently only produces cartridges of it. On another thread here on FPN somebody found a bottle once.

 

Be forewarned, the current Skrip Gold is NOT the same as King's Gold. King's Gold was discontinued in 2002. It is one of the more sought after colors of Skrip, along with Persian Rose and Burgundy (both discontinued) as well.

[Desultor]

Ah, thanks Harlequin. I think I'll mix with a readily-available Noodler's Yellow instead. What number codes did Gold and Burgundy have?

 

To contribute to this thread a bit, here's a picture I took of a couple Skrip bottles, for those who haven't seen the famous well-top / tip-well / Skrip-well:

Edited May 17, 2013 by Desultor

[krishnanramani]

The bottles are so classy. Is it still available in some antique market? Especially in India?

[RLTodd]

These were the Skrip colors no later than the late 1940s:

 

Color codes:

0 Permanent Red

1 Washable Brown

2 Permanent Blue Black

3 Permanent Jet Black

4 Washable Blue

5 Permanent Royal Blue

6 Washable Black

7 Washable Emerald Green

8 Washable Purple

9 Washable Melon Red

10 Washable Persian Rose

11 Washable Peacock Blue

 

The "Washable Purple" picture above that says "9 Colors" on the label is probably from the early 1940's; it advertises the Triumph pen on the inner top flaps. The colors listed on the bottom of that box are colors 0 through 8 in the list above, except that it says "Green" instead of "Emerald Green".

 

I think that the current "Blue", starting in the 1980s, is neither Washable Blue nor Permanent Royal Blue, but I'm not 100% sure of that. It doesn't look like either one of those when used, but perhaps my vintage Washable Blue and Permanent Royal Blue inks don't behave the same as they did when new, due to some sort of degradation over time. However, I have more than one bottle source of each of the vintage Blues, and both of each look/act the same.

 

It may be possible that the 1980's blue through now is the same as the older Washable Blue, but more saturated. I have yet to find a definitive write up of what Sheaffer did with the colors in the 1980s, when they switched labels to the one above with the huge font size "ink" on the label. They ditched Washable Black and Melon Red, keeping Jet Black and Red. They seem to have ditched both blues for "Blue", but as I said I'm not 100% sure that "Blue" in unrelated to one of the old blues. They stopped using the words Permanent and Washable at this time. Previously, they had used "Deluxe" instead of "Washable" for a short time.

 

And, I was told that the last number, or numbers indicated the bottle size. 42 would be Skrip Washable Blue in a 2oz. bottle, while 44 would be Skrip Washable Blue in a 4 oz. bottle.

 

Rational system for inventory control.

[Harlequin]

Ah, thanks Harlequin. I think I'll mix with a readily-available Noodler's Yellow instead. What number codes did Gold and Burgundy have?

 

<snip>

 

If you mean number codes like the older Skrip had, like 102 for Persian Rose or 04 for Red (4 oz bottle), I don't think either King's Gold or Burgundy had those codes. I've not seen them on my 12 mL bottles of either. So if they did have the codes, they stopped putting them on the boxes at one point.

[mrcharlie]

 

And, I was told that the last number, or numbers indicated the bottle size. 42 would be Skrip Washable Blue in a 2oz. bottle, while 44 would be Skrip Washable Blue in a 4 oz. bottle.

 

This is correct. Since they had bottles in sizes of 2, 4, 16, and 32 ounces during the era when they used these numbers, and started with color #0, they could have had up to 13 colors without this being a problem.

 

If they needed to have color #13, bottle 132 would have been ambiguous.

 

They also had bottles that fit into "Safeguard" reservoir sets. All the ones I've seen on eBay have been 2 ounces, and if they had a code number I didn't see it. the code seems to be the color number followed by an 'S', ie 4S is a Washable Blue Safeguard bottle.

 

During WW2, "Jet Black" was called "V-Black" or "V Black", and 4 ounce bottles from that era have the code V4 or V-4 instead of #34.

Edited May 18, 2013 by mrcharlie

[Harlequin]

Actually, iirc (from research and talking to someone who used it), VBlack supposedly had a different composition, it wasn't just relabeled Jet Black. It worked much better on the Victory Mail paper than the standard Jet Black, since the paper was treated in some way or not standard paper, whichever was the case.

[mrcharlie]

No.

 

You can find boxes of V-Black that list the 9 colors of Skrip on the bottom flap, and list the four permanent inks as Jet Black, Royal Blue, Red, and Blue Black. No mention of V-Black as a separate color on the same flap that specifies "NO. V2 CONTENTS 2 OZ. 59 C.C."

 

You can also find other WW2 vintage Sheaffer's ads that list the 9 colors of Skrip available, and list the 4 permanent inks as V-Black, Royal Blue, Red, and Blue Black.

 

If that doesn't make it clear that Permanent Jet Black was relabeled as V-Black during the war, I don't know what would. Further arguing about it in this item would seem to be off topic.

 

More on topic I'll note that the V-Black bottle labels and boxes were also a different color scheme than the normal blue and yellow Skrip packaging of the day; a red, white, and black (or very dark blue; I don't trust my eyes to be sure) color scheme. I don't have any photos I have the rights to post, but maybe someone else does. However it is the same size bottles (2 oz and 4 oz) and boxes with many of the same design elements as the normal box and labels.

 

Also I've seen pictures of the label on the weird jelly-jar looking bottle, which you can see earlier in this item in a picture labeled as the last well-type bottle, on a bottle that was clearly the same as the shape and lid as the red-label era bottles.

 

I had a pen pal who was familiar with the "ink" and "red label" era bottles look at a classic blue and yellow Sheaffer's Skrip era bottle and think something was wrong with it because the lid was domed. That was normal. It looks to me like the lids became flat instead of domed when the label/box was changed to feature the word "ink" near 1980, but I'm far from sure of that. I don't have any older bottles that have the non-domed flat style lid.

Edited May 18, 2013 by mrcharlie

[Desultor]

If you mean number codes like the older Skrip had, like 102 for Persian Rose or 04 for Red (4 oz bottle), I don't think either King's Gold or Burgundy had those codes. I've not seen them on my 12 mL bottles of either. So if they did have the codes, they stopped putting them on the boxes at one point.

Ah, interesting. 12 mL bottles - what a scam! So these colors came after the 1970s? Do we know the chronology of Sheaffer's color offerings?

 

And to our friend in India: check eBay for "vintage Skrip". These bottles can regularly be found for around $10 shipped (within the USA), and sometimes nearly full with no rusting and in their original box. The colors I've seen the most are blue-black, blue, then red, and occasionally brown and green (though I defer to the long-time collectors here).

[Harlequin]

Well, the 12 ml bottles came two to a pack, iirc, and were really sold as accessories to the Calligraphy sets. I know for a fact that King's Gold also came in 2 oz bottles, it would surprise me if Burgundy didn't as well.

[swanjun]

Well, the 12 ml bottles came two to a pack, iirc, and were really sold as accessories to the Calligraphy sets. I know for a fact that King's Gold also came in 2 oz bottles, it would surprise me if Burgundy didn't as well.

 

It definitely did, as did Lavender and Grey, the other two newbies of the maroon-box era. (I have them all, happy dance!)

 

I've never seen a maroon box with a number code on it (not even for any of the older colors). I'm not sure at which point they stopped doing that.

[mrcharlie]

The Textron era boxes that were still yellow and featured the large size lower-case "ink" on the box and bottle label don't have the number codes; all the previous yellow "Skrip" bottles had them.

 

So these colors came after the 1970s? Do we know the chronology of Sheaffer's color offerings?

I haven't seen anyone give a chronology of Sheaffer's ink colors, and haven't found a lot of supporting documentation. Here is the best I have been able to find:

 

I have boxes and images from boxes made during the Triumph/WW2 years, and Sheaffer had 9 colors then, 4 Permanent (Jet Black, Royal Blue, Red, and Blue Black) and 5 Washable (Black, Blue, Green, Purple, and Brown).

 

By approximately 1950 the boxes list 12 colors; the Permanent are the same, in the the Washable list Green is then called Emerald Green (I don't know if it changed color or not), and the new Washable colors are Melon Red, Persian Rose, and Peacock Blue.

 

This line-up stayed the same until sometime in the 1970s or very early 1980s at the latest, although they changed "Washable" to "Deluxe" for a while near the end of this time range; no earlier than 1966 (when Textron bought the company and it went from Sheaffer's to Sheaffer). Whatever the exact year near 1980 was, they changed the packaging to call it "ink" instead of writing fluid for the first time, and in fact featured the word "ink" on the box and label of the bottle. They stopped using Permanent and Washable/Deluxe altogether, eliminated Melon Red and Black but kept Red and Jet Black. I am guessing here, but it looks to me like "Blue" starting at this time is not the same as the previous Blue (aka Washable Blue) or Royal Blue. By guessing, I mean I have multiple bottles of both Washable Blue and Royal Blue, and none of them look the same as the current "Blue"; the current "Blue" looks nearly exactly the same as the "Blue" from the "ink" packaging era. I'm not sure if they eliminated any other colors at this time or not. I don't when Persian Rose went away, for instance; possibly at this time; at least I haven't seen a bottle with the "ink" label style so far.

 

After this time but while Textron still owned it, they changed the label and box to be a dark red, and then later on changed it to a really ugly design label; if you look earlier in the thread you'll see some pictures of the label that is the first one after the red era. The company was sold again in 1987 to Gefinor, and I think it went from the red era to the ugly era under this ownership but don't have the dates so I'm not sure.

 

At some point during the "ink" or red packaging era, there were several new colors added; at least King's Gold, Burgundy, Lavender, and Gray.

 

In 1997 Gefinor sold Sheaffer to BIC, and in 2002 BIC moved ink production to Slovenia with new bottles and a new but compatible cartridge design. At that time, Peacock Blue was dropped and replaced by Turquoise which many people say is effectively the same color on some paper but other people say it isn't. People also say the Slovenia era Purple is not the same as the previous Purple. Emerald Green was dropped and a new Green was added which is not even close to the same color. All the other colors that were kept were reformulated to be the same as much as possible, but made from ingredients from EU legal/available suppliers. Any color not available now was dropped at that time, I believe, including Burgundy, Lavender, Gray, and King's Gold as well as the previously mentioned Emerald Green and Peacock Blue.

 

Here is the current color list available in bottles: Blue-Black, Blue, Jet Black, Red, Green, Brown, Turquoise, and Purple. Additional colors available only in cartridges: Pink, Orange, Gold. I don't know what year these last three were added; immediately in 2002 or later.

 

I don't know what year 32, 16, and 4 oz bottles were dropped or what year the mini (12 cc?) bottles were added or dropped. I think the 2 oz well top bottle was changed to the same size and basic shape bottle without the well, and with a different lid, sometime in the 1990s. The current bottle shape and size (50cc) came in 2002. Since 2002, they have changed the bottle's label design once that I know of, but I don't know how to describe the change. I only have the current label.

Edited May 19, 2013 by mrcharlie

[Desultor]

Mr. Charlie, thanks so much! Very helpful information - especially the part about the change from Sheaffer's to Sheaffer in 1966. I just verified that my small collection is pre-1966. Wow, 50-year old ink, as good as new!

 

Is the 12-color era (beginning circa 1950) when they changed the labels from brown to yellow/blue? Earlier in the thread a brown label was identified as 1937.

 

What about the cryptic braille etchings in the middle of or notches at the top of the labels? Was this a time-stamp of some kind?

Edited May 21, 2013 by Desultor

[amberleadavis]

Charles, thank you for sharing your knowledge.

[mrcharlie]

My oldest bottles are yellow and blue, and are from the 9 color era.

[Skyppere]

These were the Skrip colors no later than the late 1940s:

 

Color codes:

0 Permanent Red

1 Washable Brown

2 Permanent Blue Black

3 Permanent Jet Black

4 Washable Blue

5 Permanent Royal Blue

6 Washable Black

7 Washable Emerald Green

8 Washable Purple

9 Washable Melon Red

10 Washable Persian Rose

11 Washable Peacock Blue

 

The "Washable Purple" picture above that says "9 Colors" on the label is probably from the early 1940's; it advertises the Triumph pen on the inner top flaps. The colors listed on the bottom of that box are colors 0 through 8 in the list above, except that it says "Green" instead of "Emerald Green".

 

I think that the current "Blue", starting in the 1980s, is neither Washable Blue nor Permanent Royal Blue, but I'm not 100% sure of that. It doesn't look like either one of those when used, but perhaps my vintage Washable Blue and Permanent Royal Blue inks don't behave the same as they did when new, due to some sort of degradation over time. However, I have more than one bottle source of each of the vintage Blues, and both of each look/act the same.

 

It may be possible that the 1980's blue through now is the same as the older Washable Blue, but more saturated. I have yet to find a definitive write up of what Sheaffer did with the colors in the 1980s, when they switched labels to the one above with the huge font size "ink" on the label. They ditched Washable Black and Melon Red, keeping Jet Black and Red. They seem to have ditched both blues for "Blue", but as I said I'm not 100% sure that "Blue" in unrelated to one of the old blues. They stopped using the words Permanent and Washable at this time. Previously, they had used "Deluxe" instead of "Washable" for a short time.

this is really fascinating information. Can I now, finally conclude that Skrip NEVER produced a bottle of pink ink? It will put my mind at rest at long last.

skyppere

[hbquikcomjamesl]

No, you probably can't draw that conclusion, given that this very thread mentions at least two colors (burgundy and king's gold) that were available in bottles, but apparently lacked a number code.