... Tomoe River Paper, Cream, A4 ...

[TMLee]

Made a journal with this TR paper.

 

Featured here ...

 

Great info. Thnx.

 

I have some #18 binding thread. Still too thick? I haven't attempted binding, yet. Howzabout dental floss?

 

 

Thanks ,

I avoided #18 gauge thread becos I am quite sure the thin (and soft) papers will have problems 'compressing' the threads.

I am not sure how to explain this.

The #18 gauge threads are not flat in profile, they are round, and very tough, and not compressible.

So when you use this, it will add bulk to the middle of the signatures.

The signatures will struggle to keep their shape with such thicker threads.

See the post by "penhand"

 

In this case, yes, dental floss is a much better choice, although its a bit too thin. Perhaps something twice or triple the thickness of dental floss.

Maybe you can try stitching with double twines of dental floss. Or triple.

(I haven't tried that yet)

 

It'll be interesting to see.

[raging.dragon]

Made a journal with this TR paper.

 

Featured here ...

 

Great info. Thnx.

 

I have some #18 binding thread. Still too thick? I haven't attempted binding, yet. Howzabout dental floss?

 

 

Thanks ,

I avoided #18 gauge thread becos I am quite sure the thin (and soft) papers will have problems 'compressing' the threads.

I am not sure how to explain this.

The #18 gauge threads are not flat in profile, they are round, and very tough, and not compressible.

So when you use this, it will add bulk to the middle of the signatures.

The signatures will struggle to keep their shape with such thicker threads.

See the post by "penhand"

 

In this case, yes, dental floss is a much better choice, although its a bit too thin. Perhaps something twice or triple the thickness of dental floss.

Maybe you can try stitching with double twines of dental floss. Or triple.

(I haven't tried that yet)

 

It'll be interesting to see.

 

Two or three times the thickness of dental floss? I think mono-filament fishing line would fit that requirement. It's available in a plethora of sizes so you should be able to find something in the right range.

[fuchsiaprincess]

Fantastic review, TM

[Notebookish]

I just want to mention that I added a ream of cream Tamoe A4 Novi to the classifieds today. I am not so energetic as Penhand to put together notepads, so if anyone who already knows & likes this paper wants a full ream of 1,000 sheets, DM me. I recently obtained a stock from Japan and as everybody knows, you can only buy 4 reams (4,000 sheets) at a time so I'd love to dispose of one for now, maybe 2 if I decide later that I don't want this to be my primary paper. Also, anyone who lives in Baltimore who can pick them up in person can get $10 knocked off. Please note that it is Novi A4 which is 1cm wider & 1cm longer than regular A4.

[manolo]

I have finally tried the Tomoe River paper. It is a good paper, yes, but I don't understand all the fuss with it. In fact, I find it a bit too slicky for my taste. Together with the Tomoe River came 2 other paper samples, one of them is remarkably better (Ryman brand).

 

My favourite is still the old Galgo 70 g/m2, made in Spain but now difficult to find.

[penhand]

I have finally tried the Tomoe River paper. It is a good paper, yes, but I don't understand all the fuss with it. In fact, I find it a bit too slicky for my taste. Together with the Tomoe River came 2 other paper samples, one of them is remarkably better (Ryman brand).

 

My favourite is still the old Galgo 70 g/m2, made in Spain but now difficult to find.

One of the problems we have in the US is the choice of high quality FP friendly papers are limited, and if you add that it should be less than 20 lb (85gsm) good luck.

 

I think there are some nice, thinner papers more readily available in EU.

[raging.dragon]

I have finally tried the Tomoe River paper. It is a good paper, yes, but I don't understand all the fuss with it. In fact, I find it a bit too slicky for my taste. Together with the Tomoe River came 2 other paper samples, one of them is remarkably better (Ryman brand).

 

My favourite is still the old Galgo 70 g/m2, made in Spain but now difficult to find.

 

Some love the slickness, others hate it.

[The Good Captain]

I have finally tried the Tomoe River paper. It is a good paper, yes, but I don't understand all the fuss with it. In fact, I find it a bit too slicky for my taste. Together with the Tomoe River came 2 other paper samples, one of them is remarkably better (Ryman brand).

 

My favourite is still the old Galgo 70 g/m2, made in Spain but now difficult to find.

 

Some love the slickness, others hate it.

I'm really enjoying the UK-available Q Connect and Ryman's Bank papers.

[Notebookish]

What's this Ryman brand? Anyone have scanned reviews?

 

I like Tamoe, but thinness (and to a lesser extent, show-through) are still the dealbreakers for me. I completely understand now why the Design.Y bookmaker says it is not ideal for larger books. Merely turning the page introduces crinkles on A5 or A4 sized pages. I was astounded the other day how a fresh sheet in my binder was in a completely different condition from sheets I had used merely 2 weeks ago, which were crinkled to death. Tamoe at 70 or 80g or something? Exquisite. My search would end.

[TMLee]

What's this Ryman brand? Anyone have scanned reviews?

 

I like Tamoe, but thinness (and to a lesser extent, show-through) are still the dealbreakers for me. I completely understand now why the Design.Y bookmaker says it is not ideal for larger books. Merely turning the page introduces crinkles on A5 or A4 sized pages. I was astounded the other day how a fresh sheet in my binder was in a completely different condition from sheets I had used merely 2 weeks ago, which were crinkled to death. Tamoe at 70 or 80g or something? Exquisite. My search would end.

 

True, it crinkles easily.

Thats why I am still struggling at bookbinding at A6 size and havent dared venture into A5 yet.

[TMLee]

I found out the grain direction of TR paper , A4 size.

 

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/Stationery%20Paraphernalia/TOMOE%20River%20Paper/022.jpg

 

I carried out a simple water test.

The paper tried to curl into a tube .

The tube is parallel to the long side of the A4 sheet.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/Stationery%20Paraphernalia/TOMOE%20River%20Paper/023.jpg

[The Good Captain]

What's this Ryman brand? Anyone have scanned reviews?

 

I like Tamoe, but thinness (and to a lesser extent, show-through) are still the dealbreakers for me. I completely understand now why the Design.Y bookmaker says it is not ideal for larger books. Merely turning the page introduces crinkles on A5 or A4 sized pages. I was astounded the other day how a fresh sheet in my binder was in a completely different condition from sheets I had used merely 2 weeks ago, which were crinkled to death. Tamoe at 70 or 80g or something? Exquisite. My search would end.

Here's one I did for the Q Connect version.

And here's the Ryman's one.

[penhand]

What's this Ryman brand? Anyone have scanned reviews?

 

I like Tamoe, but thinness (and to a lesser extent, show-through) are still the dealbreakers for me. I completely understand now why the Design.Y bookmaker says it is not ideal for larger books. Merely turning the page introduces crinkles on A5 or A4 sized pages. I was astounded the other day how a fresh sheet in my binder was in a completely different condition from sheets I had used merely 2 weeks ago, which were crinkled to death. Tamoe at 70 or 80g or something? Exquisite. My search would end.

Here's one I did for the Q Connect version.

And here's the Ryman's one.

While Tomoe River paper is a bit delicate, I certainly find my handmade A5 journals hold up quite well and since I write on both sides of each page, I don't notice any terrible crinkling. I guess I view the paper as similar to the kind used in very large books (like an old style dictionary or bible) and don't expect it to stay pristine. On the contrary, the paper is so thin that when I write in my Tomoe River pads, I know if I don't use an undersheet that there will be pen indentations on the next page.

 

I was fortunate enough to receive a letter from a penpal recently where he wrote on both QConnect Bank Paper and Tomoe River. For the price, the QConnect is certainly nice paper and if Tomor River is "grade A" I would give it a "B to B+" (the B+ since it has such decent performance given its thinness). Sadly, it is hard to find similar thin modern paper here in the US.

[raging.dragon]

What's this Ryman brand? Anyone have scanned reviews?

 

I like Tamoe, but thinness (and to a lesser extent, show-through) are still the dealbreakers for me. I completely understand now why the Design.Y bookmaker says it is not ideal for larger books. Merely turning the page introduces crinkles on A5 or A4 sized pages. I was astounded the other day how a fresh sheet in my binder was in a completely different condition from sheets I had used merely 2 weeks ago, which were crinkled to death. Tamoe at 70 or 80g or something? Exquisite. My search would end.

Here's one I did for the Q Connect version.

And here's the Ryman's one.

While Tomoe River paper is a bit delicate, I certainly find my handmade A5 journals hold up quite well and since I write on both sides of each page, I don't notice any terrible crinkling. I guess I view the paper as similar to the kind used in very large books (like an old style dictionary or bible) and don't expect it to stay pristine. On the contrary, the paper is so thin that when I write in my Tomoe River pads, I know if I don't use an undersheet that there will be pen indentations on the next page.

 

I was fortunate enough to receive a letter from a penpal recently where he wrote on both QConnect Bank Paper and Tomoe River. For the price, the QConnect is certainly nice paper and if Tomor River is "grade A" I would give it a "B to B+" (the B+ since it has such decent performance given its thinness). Sadly, it is hard to find similar thin modern paper here in the US.

 

I think the controversy over Tamoe River paper comes from love it or hate it reactions to it's slick surface, ink resistance, and thinness.

 

• Some want super slick nibs and papers. Others want a bit feedback while writing.
  
• Some people love the shading and lack of feathering. Others despise the long dry times.
  
• Some covet the thin high page count books and pads that can be made from this paper. Others loath the crinkling and show through.
  

[TMLee]

One way to help make writing on both sides more comfortable, ie less distraction from 'showthru' , is to place a piece of black paper or card underneath.

 

This will mask the 'showthru'.

 

Try it

[art8283]

This is a brief review , (test run) of the now famous TOMOE River paper.

 

(I did a search of reviews on this TR paper but couldnt find a thread dedicated to a review of it, so to our Dear Mods, pls move this post if its a duplicate or in a wrong place.)

 

Its Cream in colour. and at 52gsm and this is exactly A4 size not the larger version.

 

Packed in a ream of 1000shts - not the usual 500shts.

The paper is so thin that a 1000sht ream is as high as a usual copier paper ream of 500shts.

 

The paper is extremely thin and as observed by others, creases and crinkles easily.

 

But also consistent with others' observations, its very very smooth which I like.

 

I carried out a quick ink test with my FP's currently inked and in rotation.

 

Taken with window light from the top.

I placed a pure white copy paper underneath to show the cream shade and to show up the degree of 'shadow' or 'showthru'.

 

The palette of prepared acrylic pats of paint is German made and I cant remember what brand , was it Herlitz ?

Anyway ...

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/Stationery%20Paraphernalia/TOMOE%20River%20Paper/002.jpg

 

Reverse of the page

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/Stationery%20Paraphernalia/TOMOE%20River%20Paper/007.jpg

 

 

 

 

Closeup 1

Just as I expected, standard blues and light blues are best.

Look at Pelikan Royal Blue

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/Stationery%20Paraphernalia/TOMOE%20River%20Paper/005.jpg

 

Reverse of 1

Look at Pelikan Royal Blue - shows the least 'showthru'.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/Stationery%20Paraphernalia/TOMOE%20River%20Paper/008.jpg

 

Closeup 2

apologies, my PILOT Falcon Elabo ran out of ink ..

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/Stationery%20Paraphernalia/TOMOE%20River%20Paper/006.jpg

 

Reverse of 2

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/Stationery%20Paraphernalia/TOMOE%20River%20Paper/009.jpg

 

Closeup 3

Thre NOODLERS American Eel Blue seems to be worst of the lot.

There seems to be some bleedthru, see next pic below ...

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/Stationery%20Paraphernalia/TOMOE%20River%20Paper/006.jpg

 

Reverse of 3

The NOODLERS American Eel Blue shows some bleedthru.

Probably cos it took longest to dry up.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/Stationery%20Paraphernalia/TOMOE%20River%20Paper/010.jpg

 

 

I have a habit of testing with a simple drawing, then coloured with various light washes . This will help later when and if i ever do sketches on it.

Of course the paper crumples/warps from the wetness.

Its to be expected.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/Stationery%20Paraphernalia/TOMOE%20River%20Paper/003.jpg

 

Closeup

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/Stationery%20Paraphernalia/TOMOE%20River%20Paper/004.jpg

 

I like the smoothness of the paper.

 

And also its resistance to bleedthru.

 

Zero feathering.

 

For a paper of this thinness, its quite commendable.

 

The only complaint I have is the 'shadow' or 'showthru'. It can be distracting.

But I guess different folks have differing levels of tolerance on this.

 

Inks that dry up quickly fare the best.

and inks that are not dark coloured also fare best.

Hmmm , missing orange ink in my test above ....

 

Fine nibs also fare better. (less ink deposited on page)

 

I would definitely use this paper for letter writing. Its superb for that.

I would use only one side. And its lightness is ideal to keep weight down over airmail.

 

To use this in one of my journal bookblocks, I am not sure.

I will make one or two to see whats it like.

 

Hope this helps ... for those of us wondering what TR paper is like.

Just received my first pad of Tomoe and came across your excellent review. Thanks for the effort you put in to create a comprehensive and informative review. Very helpful to those of us unfamiliar with the Tomoe brand.

[sarahfar]

Incredible paper. Love the tactile yet delicate feel. In the hardbound, soft bound, self-made pads, design y or just loose, it is incredible at 55 gsm.... It is silk to broadcloth. It would solve so of those tiny quirks people seem to have with maybe 70gsm, but I love it as is, simple, elegant and perfect to me......

[ethernautrix]

<p>

I think the controversy over Tamoe River paper comes from love it or hate it reactions to...

There's a controversy?

 

Haha, I guess my enthusiasm for Tomoe River paper drowns out the complaints.

 

 

 

 

ETA - I'll have to read this thread when I'm in front of my laptop rather than trying to see the photos on my phone.

Edited January 12, 2014 by ethernautrix

[ethernautrix]

This is a brief review , (test run) of the now famous TOMOE River paper.

 

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/Stationery%20Paraphernalia/TOMOE%20River%20Paper/002.jpg

 

 

 

 

This entire post is wonderful and helpful. Thanks, TMLee!

 

 

 

ETA: I just noticed the date of the OP, and now I'm wondering what I was so busy doing a year ago that I completely missed this thread.

Edited January 12, 2014 by ethernautrix

[TMLee]

On 2/15/2013 at 3:50 PM, TMLee said:

This is a brief review , (test run) of the now famous TOMOE River paper.

 

(I did a search of reviews on this TR paper but couldnt find a thread dedicated to a review of it, so to our Dear Mods, pls move this post if its a duplicate or in a wrong place.)

 

Its Cream in colour. and at 52gsm and this is exactly A4 size not the larger version.

 

Packed in a ream of 1000shts - not the usual 500shts.

The paper is so thin that a 1000sht ream is as high as a usual copier paper ream of 500shts.

 

The paper is extremely thin and as observed by others, creases and crinkles easily.

 

But also consistent with others' observations, its very very smooth which I like.

 

I carried out a quick ink test with my FP's currently inked and in rotation.

 

Taken with window light from the top.

I placed a pure white copy paper underneath to show the cream shade and to show up the degree of 'shadow' or 'showthru'.

 

The palette of prepared acrylic pats of paint is German made and I cant remember what brand , was it Herlitz ?

Anyway ...

 

 

Reverse of the page

 

 

 

Closeup 1

Just as I expected, standard blues and light blues are best.

Look at Pelikan Royal Blue

 

 

On 2/15/2013 at 3:50 PM, TMLee said:

Reverse of 1

Look at Pelikan Royal Blue - shows the least 'showthru'.

  

 

On 2/15/2013 at 3:50 PM, TMLee said:

Closeup 2

apologies, my PILOT Falcon Elabo ran out of ink .. :embarrassed_smile:

  

 

Reverse of 2

 

 

Closeup 3

Thre NOODLERS American Eel Blue seems to be worst of the lot.

There seems to be some bleedthru, see next pic below ...  

 

Reverse of 3

The NOODLERS American Eel Blue shows some bleedthru.

Probably cos it took longest to dry up.

 

I have a habit of testing with a simple drawing, then coloured with various light washes . This will help later when and if i ever do sketches on it.

Of course the paper crumples/warps from the wetness.

Its to be expected.  

 

Closeup  

 

I like the smoothness of the paper.

 

And also its resistance to bleedthru.

 

Zero feathering.

 

For a paper of this thinness, its quite commendable.

 

The only complaint I have is the 'shadow' or 'showthru'. It can be distracting.

But I guess different folks have differing levels of tolerance on this.

 

Inks that dry up quickly fare the best.

and inks that are not dark coloured also fare best.

Hmmm , missing orange ink in my test above .... :hmm1:

 

Fine nibs also fare better. (less ink deposited on page)

 

I would definitely use this paper for letter writing. Its superb for that.

I would use only one side. And its lightness is ideal to keep weight down over airmail.

 

To use this in one of my journal bookblocks, I am not sure.

I will make one or two to see whats it like.

 

Hope this helps ... for those of us wondering what TR paper is like.

 

 

This is the original post of this thread way back in 2013.

what I have done here is to put back the pics that have been blocked bcos of Pbucket rules and the entire saga. 

I have since recovered my pics out of Pbucket and closed the account.

 

( I wonder how to remove these quotation formats or combine them here ? or reformat them to make them easier to read... )

 

since TOMOE RIVER paper is now under a new owner, this review is of the old TR paper.