Nine bottles of ink from Pendemonium!

[Inkanthropist]

Thanks for these excellent reviews, Phthalo.

 

Neil

[lefty928]

  Quote

I just ordered samples of Apache Sunset, Private Reserve Foam Green, J. Herbin Bouquet D'Antan, & Lie de The from Pear Tree Pen.

 

Looking forward to seeing samples, Hana, particularly of Bouquet d'Antan. Like Viseguy and many others, I enjoy your flexy nib demos (something to admire, if not aspire to!).

[blueiris]

Thank you for the reviews, Phthalo! I might order the Umber, because a dark foresty green sounds nice to me.

 

  Phthalo said:

maryannemoll: Thanks for the link about the batches, granted there is added excitement, but there is also annoyance. :/

I agree about the annoyance. I ordered a bottle of Nightshade based on my friend's bottle, which he purchased a few months ago. His bottle shows it to be a darkest burgundy-plum-brown shade, which is consistent with Noodler's charts putting it in among the reds, purples, and browns. The Writing Desk's Col-o-rama tool also places it in the "reds." Mine turned out to be a dark gray-purple . My retailer advised me to email Dick Egolf at Luxury Brands, and his response was that they cannot guarantee consistency among different batches, sorry. End of story.

 

It's really disappointing. My Nightshade may well be due to a batch discrepancy, but it's not the shade that it's supposed to be. If I wanted a gray-purple, I certainly would not have chosen Nightshade. If part of the charm is to have the excitement of not knowing what color you're going to get, then there's no point in naming so many different shades that are within that 5% batch discrepancy range.

[BillTheEditor]

  maryannemoll said:

Nathan Tardif did explain color discrepancies among batches. It's here: http://www.pendemonium.com/ink_noodler_info.htm it's the last article on the page.

 

I suppose there is an added excitement to not knowing exactly what shade of a color you are going to get. And then it will be much more fun to post scans, to compare who has the greenest one or the reddest one, and so on and so forth, and then decide to trade.

Oh, shoot. I hadn't seen that note before, and thought the Noodler inks were pretty consistent batch to batch (based on my limited experience, and of course I tend to buy two bottles at a time so probably getting both from the same batch). Going to have to revise my thinking and recommendations, and will probably give up posting color-corrected Noodler samples here in response to questions -- if the colors aren't consistent, what's the point? I still like the inks that I have, but it's discouraging to think that getting the same color when I reorder is a crapshoot.

[maryannemoll]

i took a closer look at the article and saw that it was from 2004. there could be a chance that the discrepancies are now being more controlled than before. but then again, the only way to know is to keep comparing the real inks from the actual bottles. the is where the fpn community can come in handy, by sharing scans and trading.

 

but i still want to give noodler's a try, if only for the bulletproof quality.

Edited January 25, 2007 by maryannemoll

[chupie]

I can see discrepancies but that is really a total color change to me between this Dostoevsky and mine. I'm really glad mine is as it is. Not like I'll get through it anytime soon, but I will be sad not to get that particular color back.

[lefty928]

  Quote

I can see discrepancies but that is really a total color change to me between this Dostoevsky and mine.

The variation does seem a lot more than 5%. I'm glad I hadn't ordered another humongo batch of ink before seeing Pthalo's version, because Dostoevsky would've been included.

[umenohana]

I wish Mr. Tardif would put more effort into his quality control than in the making of new colors.

 

-Hana

[tzmcneill]

Part of the fun of a small batch product is the variability between batches. If one wants a rock solid invariant product try one of the higher volume ink producers. But wouldn't that be dull, I mean part of the fun is seeing what you get and how it behaves in your favorite pen(s). This is part of the joy of this hobby, much like the search for the perfect Bordeaux, trying to find the perfect (insert your favorite color here) for your (insert your favorite pen here). Besides, if it were perfect, we'd loose a very interesting topic of conversation.

 

tom.

[blueiris]

  maryannemoll said:

i took a closer look at the article and saw that it was from 2004. there could be a chance that the discrepancies are now being more controlled than before. but then again, the only way to know is to keep comparing the real inks from the actual bottles. the is where the fpn community can come in handy, by sharing scans and trading.

In my experience, I don't think they have much regard for batch discrepancies now, as described in my earlier post above. My friend's bottle of Nightshade was bought new a few months ago, and I bought my bottle of Nightshade new a few weeks ago. Both bottles were purchased within months of each other, less than six months total. I really doubt that our well-known and popular online dealers are hanging onto old stock, and I have to presume that these were both relatively fresh bottles. In fact, my retailer told me it was from his fresh batch. My friend and I compared our Nightshade ink bottles, side-by-side, in person, and it's as if I ordered a different shade of ink. I don't see how a comparison could be any more real-life than that, as seeing the difference with my own eyes is much more reliable than comparing online scans.

 

Again, this was a total disappointment for me. Based on the distributor's response, they don't seem to care about consistency between batches. I also find it odd, given that they offer such a variety of shades. I would have thought that the point of having such variety is to acknowledge that there are some of us who are buying the ink in order to have a particular shade, rather than buying inks that are named simply "blue" or "purple" or "green." EDITED TO ADD to Tzmcneill, for this reason, I disagree with your comment. I understand what you're saying, and I do buy from the higher-volume ink producers but for the opposite reason you suggest. I wanted "blue" ink, and I wasn't too particular about what I wanted, so I chose Sheaffer Skrip Blue. I wanted the red-toned purple-brown of Nightshade, so I bought Nightshade. Instead, I got a dull gray-purple. To me, that is not part of the fun.

 

I'm pretty down on Noodler's right now. That said, I do have and like their Gulf Stream Blue waterproof ink, as it lives up to being waterproof. It has the nib creep issue, but it's in a cheaper pen, so it doesn't bother me.

Edited January 25, 2007 by blueiris

[Viseguy]

  umenohana said:

  Viseguy said:

I hope you do, Hana -- and if you do, be sure and post some scans here!  The color variations in Apache Sunset are amazing with a flexy nib, and with your artistry you could make the most of it.

Thank you very much for your kind words!

 

I just ordered samples of Apache Sunset, Private Reserve Foam Green, J. Herbin Bouquet D'Antan, & Lie de The from Pear Tree Pen.

 

-Hana

Oooh, good -- have fun!

[Viseguy]

  tzmcneill said:

Part of the fun of a small batch product is the variability between batches. If one wants a rock solid invariant product try one of the higher volume ink producers. But wouldn't that be dull, I mean part of the fun is seeing what you get and how it behaves in your favorite pen(s). This is part of the joy of this hobby, much like the search for the perfect Bordeaux, trying to find the perfect (insert your favorite color here) for your (insert your favorite pen here). Besides, if it were perfect, we'd loose a very interesting topic of conversation.

 

tom.

My sentiment, exactly -- although I understand and have some sympathy for the opposite point of view. (Yes, I'm a Libra. )

[psfred]

I can sympathize with Nathan.

 

He's making up dye solutions in very limited quantites, and the amounts of some of the dyes are quite small, but have a significant impact on the final color. I would suppose he has limited ability to analyze the dyes in advance, and does not have the ability ot buy in large, certified lots (this stuff is expensive). The results are some variation between lots that are very hard to "fix" even with good top of the line chromatography equipment, and he said he was not using computer color comparators, so that adds to it.

 

I'm happy with what I've gotten so far -- the Navajo is nicer than the Sheaffer Peacock I have, at least.

 

I suspect thing will improve as he makes more and more repeat batches, but he's still not going to have the equpiment the "big guys" have to determine exact color each time -- to say nothing of the fact that very small amounts of dye are hard to weigh and transfer exactly.

 

I'll keep on buying, and yeah, once in a while I'll get something I don't really like, or the next bottle won't be the same, but hey, it's like wine -- never really the same twice!

 

Peter

[chupie]

Batch descrepencies or not, Noodler's is the ink I always return to. I am trying Peartree's sampler program and I was going to try other inks. I did pick one Private Reserve but I still came back to Noodler's over and over.

[Melnicki]

  blueiris said:

It's really disappointing. My Nightshade may well be due to a batch discrepancy, but it's not the shade that it's supposed to be. If I wanted a gray-purple, I certainly would not have chosen Nightshade.

I know, it stinks. But either trade with someone, or try to make the best of it.

 

I was greatly disappointed with Noodler's Sequoia, which barely shows any green, just looks black to me, and it's not bulletproof one bit, either!! It sat in my drawer unused for months. But then I tried adding it to Lexington Grey and suddenly it's the color I wanted after all, has bulletproof qualities, and the green indeed can be seen (a bit).

 

If you wanted Nightshade to be a bit redder, add some red ink to tint it. I am so enthusiased by all my inks since I started tinting. I recommend filling cartridges with a short-needle insulin syringe, which cleans out with a single flush of water, making mixing easy. You can also try "chasing" the feed from a fill of a previous color with a new contrasting color. It makes for interesting results, as the color will change (over the course of about two paragraphs, until it is almost exactly the new color). Make sure the inks are the same pH though!!!

[Melnicki]

  chupie said:

Batch descrepencies or not, Noodler's is the ink I always return to. I am trying Peartree's sampler program and I was going to try other inks.

Public question for James Peartree:

 

Has anyone commented to you yet that the ink they bought was not the same as the ink they sampled from you? That might settle the batch inconsistency issue.

 

My personal opinion is that it's in the eye of the beholder, but yes Chupie's dostoevsky scans look totally different from the ones here.

[James P]

  Melnicki said:

Public question for James Peartree:

 

Has anyone commented to you yet that the ink they bought was not the same as the ink they sampled from you?  That might settle the batch inconsistency issue.

The answer to this question is sort of a "yes" and a "no."

 

No one has ever commented that the color of a sample they received from me was different than the color of the ink in the bottle they ultimately purchased. This is not very surprising, since my samples are generally taken from the same batch of ink I have in stock (no - not the same bottle, don't worry - you all get full bottles )

 

However, one customer did let me know that she purchased a bottle of Noodler's ink from me after seeing and testing the same shade that a friend had - and her ink appeared very different to her. She's been a very loyal customer and, although I didn't witness the discrepancy myself, I have absolutely no reason to doubt her.

 

James Partridge

[blueiris]

  Melnicki said:

  blueiris said:

It's really disappointing.   My Nightshade may well be due to a batch discrepancy, but it's not the shade that it's supposed to be.  If I wanted a gray-purple, I certainly would not have chosen Nightshade.

I know, it stinks. But either trade with someone, or try to make the best of it.

 

...

 

If you wanted Nightshade to be a bit redder, add some red ink to tint it. I am so enthusiased by all my inks since I started tinting. I recommend filling cartridges with a short-needle insulin syringe, which cleans out with a single flush of water, making mixing easy. You can also try "chasing" the feed from a fill of a previous color with a new contrasting color. It makes for interesting results, as the color will change (over the course of about two paragraphs, until it is almost exactly the new color). Make sure the inks are the same pH though!!!

Thanks, Melnicki. I did make the best of it by giving it away to my friend. He liked the cool gray-purple color, so he was happy to have it.

 

As for adding red to it to make it redder, I considered it but chickened out for the reason you mentioned--the pH level. The red ink I have is of unknown pH (and I don't have test strips handy). Plus, I once read here about how red inks can be fussy to mix, either because of sediment issues or maybe due to pH issues. The case of PR's now-discontinued red and orange shades turning to sludge when mixed has sufficiently scared me from mixing anything with red. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

[Melnicki]

  blueiris said:

As for adding red to it to make it redder, I considered it but chickened out for the reason you mentioned--the pH level. The red ink I have is of unknown pH (and I don't have test strips handy). Plus, I once read here about how red inks can be fussy to mix, either because of sediment issues or maybe due to pH issues. The case of PR's now-discontinued red and orange shades turning to sludge when mixed has sufficiently scared me from mixing anything with red. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

They say you can mix without worry with inks from the same manufacturer. For example noodler's inks are all pH 7. You can also mix inks outside of a pen to see what happens. And my final recommendation would be to test your mixtures in a cheap $5 pen. $5 pens are very easy to acquire (I recommend Ebay or Yi Cheng), but those of us with nice nibs know that they are much less comfortable to use.

[blueiris]

Melnicki, as I said in an earlier post, I gave the disappointing bottle of Nightshade to my friend. He has it (along with his own bottle of Nightshade that I so admired), so there's no experimenting to be done. He's happy having a different color of ink in his collection (albeit with the same name as one of his own), and I'm happy that it makes him happy. I'm at peace with how it turned out. He's a great friend who, out of nowhere, gave me one of his Esterbrooks, just because he knew I'd like it. :)9

 

I understand what you're saying about mixing within a brand, but as in the case of the documented cases of sludge with certain now-discontinued Private Reserve reds, even when mixed within their brand, it's not foolproof. Even if I didn't give the Nightshade away, I had no desire to spend any money on cheap pens and a whole bottle of Noodler's Red ink that I wouldn't otherwise use (because I already have a bottle of Visconti Burgundy, and that's enough for me). With the money I'd spend on a bottle of Noodler's Red, I'd just as soon spend the same amount of money trying my luck with a new bottle of ink. And that's what I'll do (I have my eye on Caran D'Ache Storm)--life goes on. I do occasionally mix my own inks in separate jars and monitor them for sludge and the like, and I have a dip pen for testing colors without fear of damaging my vintage pens, so the concept of mixing is not foreign to me.

 

Thanks again for your suggestions.