New Converter Issues

[Eccles]

I recently bought a lovely Carene from Simon at Battersea Pen Home, which came with what is apparently one of the new batch of converters, which has no metal band around the end.... just the dark, almost opaque plastic of the converter itself.

 

I was concerned that it didn't fill too well in the traditional way, mounted in the pen, but I persisted and eventually got a decent amount of ink into it.

 

Next day, vertical in my shirt pocket, it promptly leaked through the barrel jewel. Investigating, I found the ink seeping down from where converter meets section and nothing I tried made any difference, apart from fitting an older style converter with the metal band around the business end. It works perfectly, both when filling and afterwards... I've been carrying the pen for over a week without a drop of leakage.

 

I tried the offending one with a variety of my other Watermans and the only one it suited was the Exclusive, which has a narrower throat in a plastic section... a Man 200, L'Etalon and Gentleman all had trouble filling and then suffered the same incontinence.

 

Simon, who has been great through all this, tells me this is the only type of converter Watermans make now, which is a concern for both of us. It may be a quality control issue, in which case the telling symptom is failure to fill properly... if that happens don't trust it.

 

I thought I'd put the word out and see what the general experience is.

 

Regards,

 

Glenn.

[Left FPN]

Others have had this problem. Supplier should though replace it until you get one that works.

[Eccles]

Others have had this problem. Supplier should though replace it until you get one that works.

 

He did indeed, without quibble. It was the first he'd heard of the issue.

 

If others have had an issue (I did a search in this forum first to see if I could find any), do they find it is a problem with every single one, implying design issues, or do some work OK while others don't, suggesting poor quality control?

 

Glenn.

 

 

 

[Left FPN]

Others have had this problem. Supplier should though replace it until you get one that works.

 

He did indeed, without quibble. It was the first he'd heard of the issue.

 

If others have had an issue (I did a search in this forum first to see if I could find any), do they find it is a problem with every single one, implying design issues, or do some work OK while others don't, suggesting poor quality control?

 

Glenn.

 

Post/topics get diverted from their main theme so finding specific ones can be difficult. I seem to recall the last person to report this issue was looking to replace it with one of the old type with the metal collar. I am not sure what the outcome was because many post one time and you never hear from them again. Have you tried a standard Waterman cartridge and if so did it work ok.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Force

[Eccles]

Post/topics get diverted from their main theme so finding specific ones can be difficult. I seem to recall the last person to report this issue was looking to replace it with one of the old type with the metal collar. I am not sure what the outcome was because many post one time and you never hear from them again. Have you tried a standard Waterman cartridge and if so did it work ok.

 

I've not tried a cartridge; generally don't use them. I've swapped it for one of the older, collared converters that was in my Exclusive, since that pen is happy with the newer one. I have a couple of the collared converters left (Simon's sending replacements too) and that should meet my foreseeable needs.

 

I posted more to make sure members know to check the beasties before they hand over their hard earned cash.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Glenn.

[Left FPN]

I had a little time, after snow clearing duties, to trial all 4 types of Waterman converter in a new Carene.

 

1. Earliest version with clear nylon or polyethylene piston - slid in smoothly and felt nice slight interference fit on the nipple.

2. Second version with threaded collar and black piston - slid in smoothly and felt nice slight interference fit on the nipple.

3. Third version with grooved collar and black piston - slid in smoothly and felt nice slight interference fit on the nipple.

4. Fourth version with the all black collar (as per this topic and a new unused unit) - It would not fit. I applied as much pressure as I was prepared to without damaging something. On removal and looking into the converter bore, it now appears to be a stepped, telling me the bore was not the right diameter (to small) to fit the nipple.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Force

[RMN]

Hey Force.

 

You don't happen to have a pic of those four generations together, do you?

 

 

D.ick

[Left FPN]

Hey Force.

 

You don't happen to have a pic of those four generations together, do you?

 

 

D.ick

 

Only this one tonight showing their tips. The ringless one does have a collar, I removed it for the pics. It is also the one with a nylon/polyethylene piston.

 

I have also just looked at a picture I took of their ends and the fourth version already had a counter bore. This said it was still very tight to the point I would not push it in as far as the others for fear of damaging the section nipple.

 

Maybe this is the problem, users are pushing it in until it stops thinking that it is installed when in fact it has hardley passed over the nipple.

 

Edited January 18, 2013 by Force

[RMN]

Thanks Force.

 

I will have a look tomorrow as I think I still have another one. Or it might be that I unknowingly harbour a C/F converter.

 

D.ick

[Left FPN]

Thanks Force.

 

I will have a look tomorrow as I think I still have another one. Or it might be that I unknowingly harbour a C/F converter.

 

D.ick

 

There are other converters ie the CF and the push pull plunger. I was catagorising the twist version into one group only of which I think there was only four...and this morning find there are only three.

 

1. The Nylon/polyethylene piston version has the spiral grooved collar.

2. The black plastic piston with orange O ring seal has a radial grooved collar. Probably the most common.

3. The all black collar with black plastic piston and orange O ring seal. The latest version.

 

Here is the end view pic and you can see the latest does not look right.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2013 by Force

[Ernst Bitterman]

I have a picture in my head of the converter assembly line, where strides an ugly fat man wearing a leather jerkin upon which the livery of Newell-Rubbermaid is set. He cracks a whip above the heads of the workers, shouting "Faster! CHEAPER! You owe you allegiance to the SHAREHOLDERS! The buyers mean NOTHING!" Near the end of the line is a gibbet with a cage on it, containing a desiccated corpse and mounted with a small brass plaque on which the words QUALITY CONTROLLER are engraved.

 

My day always starts with Drama Flakes cereal.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Ernst Bitterman

[RMN]

Ernst, are you a member of mystery writers of Canada?

 

 

D.ick

[Maja]

 

There are other converters ie the CF and the push pull plunger. I was catagorising the twist version into one group only of which I think there was only four...and this morning find there are only three.

 

1. The Nylon/polyethylene piston version has the spiral grooved collar.

2. The black plastic piston with orange O ring seal has a radial grooved collar. Probably the most common.

3. The all black collar with black plastic piston and orange O ring seal. The latest version.

 

Here is the end view pic and you can see the latest does not look right.

 

 

 

I have one like this one: http://www.worldlux.com/products/waterman/_refil/refill/CONVTR.jpg

It's like # 2 in your list, but with no grooves. Is it the 4th type?

 

I don't have the very newest Waterman converter (with the all-plastic black collar) but it is disheartening to see that it doesn't fit all modern Waterman pens. What where they thinking??

[Left FPN]

I have one like this one: http://www.worldlux.com/products/waterman/_refil/refill/CONVTR.jpg

It's like # 2 in your list, but with no grooves. Is it the 4th type?

 

I don't have the very newest Waterman converter (with the all-plastic black collar) but it is disheartening to see that it doesn't fit all modern Waterman pens. What where they thinking??

 

Yes, it's another version.

[RMN]

I have one like this one: http://www.worldlux.com/products/waterman/_refil/refill/CONVTR.jpg

It's like # 2 in your list, but with no grooves. Is it the 4th type?

 

I don't have the very newest Waterman converter (with the all-plastic black collar) but it is disheartening to see that it doesn't fit all modern Waterman pens. What where they thinking??

 

Yes, it's another version.

That is the one I also have. I have nr 2 and 3 as above by Force plus no 2 without grooves as described by Maja. I have also noted that no 3 is slightly longer and also has the smaller ring inside. It is not new, I have this one for at least 2 years. Also the mouth is tapering, where the other ones have a distinct step. So I thought: was this one for the C/F???

 

I have never seen a real C/F so I would not know.

 

 

D.ick

[Eccles]

That is the one I also have. I have nr 2 and 3 as above by Force plus no 2 without grooves as described by Maja. I have also noted that no 3 is slightly longer and also has the smaller ring inside. It is not new, I have this one for at least 2 years. Also the mouth is tapering, where the other ones have a distinct step. So I thought: was this one for the C/F???

I have never seen a real C/F so I would not know.

D.ick

 

Looking at the helpful photos posted earlier, I notice that I'm used to a different variant, a smooth shiny collar rather than grooved, which I've never noticed before; so I was surprised to find one hiding in my assorted spares!

 

I've taken pics of the ones I have, including the old style C/F aerometric and the ancient brown plastic slide converter, which doesn't seem to fit my C/Fs or more modern models... not that I want to use it!

 

Thanks for the ongoing education, folks.

 

Glenn.

[RMN]

I guess that slider would fit the modern Montblanc pens. Same overall shape. not sure about the dimensions, though.

 

 

D.ick

[Ernst Bitterman]

I think that slider is meant to work with the cartridges which surprised me in this thread, lying between the C/F and the Internationals.

 

Ernst, are you a member of mystery writers of Canada?

 

To quote Gahan Wilson, I paint what I see.

[Mercian]

I have to say that Force's picture of the latest Waterman converter does look an awful lot like my 2012 Parker twist converter.

I have found it to be a slightly tighter fit in my Parkers than my older slide converters are, and that made me wonder whether NRM have narrowed the collar for the twist converter.

Comparing the end of my converter to a Quink cartridge and a cartridge of Waterman Florida Blue, I find that the diameter of my converter's collar does, indeed, fall somewhere between the diameter of the two cartridges. Now, OK, we're only talking a fraction of a millimetre here, but I guess that it could make a difference.

 

If I'm right, this would fit with Ernst's mental image of the production line, in that it would seem that the Corporation might have tried to reduce their costs by standardising the converter range i.e. by making only ONE converter collar end piece, that is mid-way between the Parker nipple size and the Waterman nipple size.

The end result is a converter that works fine on my Parkers, but seems to not work on your Watermans.

 

Or perhaps you just got one that had accidentally had a Parker collar fitted to it?

I could see how a batch of collars for Parker converters might have accidentally made its way on to the production line for Waterman converters if they're made in the same factory or by the same company. I mean, they look very similar.

 

If that is the case, then I hope that NRM have now sorted out this (fairly basic) QC issue.

 

Cheers,

M.

 

EDIT: To clarify, the internal bore of a Waterman cartridge is narrower than that of a Parker cartridge, so one would expect a Parker cartridge to feel loose on a Waterman nipple, not tight.

 

But, the external bore of the Parker cartridge is also larger than the external bore of the Waterman cartridge, so a converter collar made to fit a Parker nipple might be too wide to fit inside a Waterman pen, and thus although it would feel as though it had to be forced into the pen, it would still be too 'loose' on the actual feed nipple to make a tight seal, resulting in leaks.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Mercian

[mjarman]

I have a new Carene which has the new converter fitted as standard. Several fills with no problem. It hasn't left my desk, though, so I don't know if it leaks when carried