Group Buy on Special Taps and Dies

February 6, 2007

Daniel,

I'm glad we're not fighting but I never said we were. I just said you seem offended by my posts. I take it that you are not offended. Good. I have nothing but warm feelings for everyone who choses to use a fountain pen. However, I don't understand what you're asking me to do. I explained why I think the prices are too high, five posts up. You may not like my explaination but there it is all the same.

Anyway, if anyone wants taps and dies in these general price ranges from Western Tap, let me know and I'll E-mail you the full price list.

[Edit: I guess I did imply we were fighting when I said there's no need to fight over this. I just wanted to correct that in this response.]

Edited February 6, 2007 by tonydacrow

February 6, 2007

I don't understand what you're asking me to do. I explained why I think the prices are too high, five posts up. You may not like my explaination but there it is all the same.

You gave some fragments of information, but I wouldn't say you actually explained the basis for your conclusion.

You stated that an automated machine (I assume we're talking about something like a TapX) can create a tool in about 30 seconds, and you added that there might be a few minutes for mounting the stock and an unspecified cost associated with heat treating the part.

What you have not discussed is the time involved in programming the machine to create the "special", to physically set up the machine (e.g. dress/setup the appropriate fluting, chamfering, and threading wheels), to perform cleanup, QA/inspection (there will not be standard gauges for special taps/dies), order processing/packing/shipping, plus the portion that goes to pay off that rather expensive CNC machine tool. I would be interested in a more thorough analysis that explains why making six custom dies for $54 each (vs. about $20 for a standard die likely made by the thousands) is "outrageous".

Another measure of whether this vendor's pricing is exorbitant would be to compare it to industry norms; do you have any data on that?

--Daniel

February 6, 2007

After much delay, I finally got a quote from Western Tap and Die for the sizes previously mentioned in this thread. Here are some examples of their (rather outrageous) prices:

5/16 and ½ acme triple lead dies – 1 @ $245 each; 2 @ $174 each; 3-5 @ 129 each; 6 -11 @ $88 each.

5/16 and ½ acme triple lead taps – 1@ $305 each; 2@ $282 each; 3-5@ $261 each; 6-11@ $248 each.

½ NS unified triple lead taps – 1@ $170 each; 2@ $150; 3-5@ $130 each; 6-11@ 105 each.

½ NS unified triple lead dies – 1@ $124 each; 2@ $99 each; 3-5@ $75 each; 6-11@ $54 each.

So, not only do they have poor customer service, they charge exorbitant prices. <_< So much for that plan…

I have quotes from another supplier for the taps/dies:

5/16-18 acme triple lead dies – 1 @ $258 each; 2 @ $174.50 each; 3-5 @ 129.60 each; 6@ $98.25 each.

½-18 acme triple lead dies – 1 @ $229 each; 2 @ $168.80 each; 3-5 @ 134.60 each; 6 @ $98.50 each.

5/16-18 acme triple lead taps – 1@ $168 each; 2@ $126 each; 3-5@ $101.50 each; 6@ $78 each.

½-18 acme triple lead taps – 1@ $252 each; 2@ $224 each; 3-5@ $175.50 each; 6@ $130 each.

½-18 NS unified triple lead taps – 1@ $126 each; 2@ $112; 3-5@ $94.50 each; 6@ $78 each.

½-18 NS unified triple lead dies – 1@ $109 each; 2@ $88 each; 3-5@ $67.50 each; 6@ $51.50 each.

The dies are comparable, but the taps are considerably less expensive. Quote turnaround was about two hours.

--Daniel

Edited February 7, 2007 by kirchh

February 7, 2007

I just finished making a pen with ordinary tap and dies from harbour freight. It came out rather nice and I only spent $30.

February 7, 2007

I know, Randy.

The only reason I was trying to get these specialty taps and dies (besides attempting to copy the threads on commercial pens) was because I wanted a triple lead so the cap spins once but goes on three threads. Oh, well...

February 7, 2007

it was a good idea though Tony. Thanks for trying

February 7, 2007

Ouch on those prices! ...and thanks for the effort Tony. If I choose to persue this, I will be looking to a friend with a lathe, and doing my own heat treating...

February 7, 2007

Hi Tony,

Thanks a lot for your efforts in getting us the taps & dies, much appriciated !

Although the prices are rather high, I was not really that surprised.

It looks to me we need at least a series of 24 of each to come in an acceptable "hobbyist" price range.

Did the seller give the cost for series of 24 of each ?

Given the number of interessees you already mobilized after your initial appeal this "24" figure does not looks totally irrealisitic to me.

Regards, Francis

Edited February 7, 2007 by fountainbel

February 7, 2007

Well,

Lets do this. If I can get a 1/2 inch triple lead unified thread tap and die set for less than $100 plus shipping, how many would be interested? No promises, but if there are 25 affirmative responses, I'll approach Western Tap with the proposal. I don't think there is enough interest here and Western Tap certainly doesn't seem interested, but I could be completely wrong. I'll keep a running tally on this thread for as long as it seems doable.

HOWEVER, if you state you are willing to purchase such a set, you have to actually send the money if the group buy goes through. With that in mind, how many are interested? I'll start the list:

1) Tonydacrow - 1 set.