Re-Sacking An Old Ballpoint, Can It Be Done?

[ashbridg]

A year or so ago I tried to use a the old front end to emulate/make a conventional holder that screws in similar to the one you can buy.

I never tried your idea of pushing a modern refill into the existing tip.

The other idea you can try is to pull the existing tip out and use a complete modern refill. Using the Sheaffer refill never worked too well for me, but if you can get a refill with the right length and thin enough to fit through the front end, it could also work.

Have a look here for the idea for replacing old Pelikan BP refills:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/215383-question-on-pelikan-bp/

 

If you are wanting to use the ink sac idea, rather try pulling the tip off the original refill and try blowing the ink from the front rather than the top.

 

Trouble where I live, there are no shops with a huge choice of refills to sit and try them out for the correct thickness and length. All the guys around here keep are Parker, Sheaffer and Cross refills.

 

The 'use a complete new refill' idea is probably a better idea because there is less mess and fuss changing a comlete refill than blowing ink into the old one.

If you are anything like me and use a BP so seldom, you find even the modern refill the ink dries on you before it is completely empty.

 

For what it's worth, one of the 'older' guys who actually got to use the Stratowriter when it was new, told me they weren't that great and never lasted very long either.

 

I appreciate the link to the other thread, lots of good ideas there. The diagram of the new cartridge inserted into the old one is especially clever.

 

It is not surprising that an old timer would find the original Stratowriter not to be that great. It is, after all, a ballpoint. Consumer Reports rated the Stratowriter one of the few dependable ballpoints of the late 1940s. The ones I have feel as smooth as any modern ballpoint.

 

It is true that modern refills dry out quickly. Space Pen cartridges last the longest. They work in Stratowriters using an adapter widget. And they make the best loaner pens in my opinion because they always work. Fisher claims the Space Pen refills last 100 years. I haven't used mine that long, but so far they still write.

 

Here are three projects I am working on:

 

http://ashbridg.com/sig600.jpg

Sheaffer Signature Stratowriter on a 1948 Vac-Fil frame. My nicest example, all original, including the 1940s ink paste which was transferred to a new sac. The crimps are removed from the sac protector so it can came off to show the sac inside. This pen is a functioning historical exhibit.

 

http://ashbridg.com/states600.jpg

A Statesman Stratowriter, I think, made in about 1949-50. The Fisher Space-Pen refill and the adapter widget from Pendemonium make this pen a reliable writer.

 

http://ashbridg.com/tuck600.jpg

A late 1940s Tuckaway will be fitted with a rollerball refill from Nathan Tardif at Noodler's. Thus the pen can use fountain pen ink. These pens have a raised pip on the clip, a bump, so they won't be confused with fountain pens in the pocket.

Edited December 31, 2012 by ashbridg

[BamaPen]

I like what you've done with the old Sheaffer's pens. Perhaps this "Frankenpen" that I cobbled together will be interesting to some following this thread.

 

For some time I have had an "Imperial" fountain pen, part of a lot of pens, that has pretty celluloid, but was missing its nib and feed. A friend recently showed me the J. Herbin inkball pen, which uses fountain pen ink and writes nicely, but is made of very slippery clear plastic. I found it too "fiddly" to use because of its slippery nature.

 

Having followed this very thread, it occurred to me to use the J. Herbin ball tip/section/feed/cartridge in the Imperial barrel and cap. As it turned out, the J. Herbin section, which is threaded to screw into its barrel, was very nearly a press fit into the Imperial barrel. The very back end of the J. Herbin section was a bit too large, so a light application of sandpaper tapered it just enough to fit in securely.

 

That's all it took and now I have a good-looking vintage inkball pen. Here are a couple of pictures:

 

[BamaPen]

One more thing, this site, Pens of Dist-ink-tion features vintage pens that have been converted to rollerballs, mostly cap actuated. He uses otherwise unusable vintage parts in making these pens. I've used one at a show and they are quite well done. Here's a link:

 

http://pensofdistinktion.com

[whych]

Thanks for the pics.

I thought the widget was only for using the Sheaffer refill, which was why I had the problem trying to convert the old Stratowriter front end.

Sometimes it's just handy to have a ball point when the fountain pen won't write on the surface. (Ever try re-adressing a window envelope with fountain pen -

The cheapest widget I found was from Pen Shop of Memphis on fleabay.com, but paying $15 with shipping doesn't make it worthwhile, so I'll stick to the 'convert the old refill' idea and probably try to get it going with a cheap refill.

 

I suppose we can curse Parker for some of their things, but at least the refill hasn't changed over the years. ... But then in the 40's and 50's you didn't get cheap springs, so Sheaffer chose the custom screw in option.

[ashbridg]

Thanks for the pics.

I thought the widget was only for using the Sheaffer refill, which was why I had the problem trying to convert the old Stratowriter front end.

Sometimes it's just handy to have a ball point when the fountain pen won't write on the surface. (Ever try re-adressing a window envelope with fountain pen -

The cheapest widget I found was from Pen Shop of Memphis on fleabay.com, but paying $15 with shipping doesn't make it worthwhile, so I'll stick to the 'convert the old refill' idea and probably try to get it going with a cheap refill.

 

I suppose we can curse Parker for some of their things, but at least the refill hasn't changed over the years. ... But then in the 40's and 50's you didn't get cheap springs, so Sheaffer chose the custom screw in option.

The Space Pen refill does fit in the widget. But widgets are expensive, especially when you have a bunch of pens. Why not make the Stratowriter's front end into a widget? Drill it out to the proper diameter and cut the ends to fit. Sheaffer based the widget on the Stratowriter's front end anyway. Here's a pic of both together:

http://ashbridg.com/widget400.jpg

 

I agree that ballpoints are handy sometimes. Every day I use one to sign a receipt or fill out a form. Pen borrowers prefer ballpens and often will refuse a fountain pen if offered one.

 

Parker is a good company. In my opinion their ballpen refills are the best. Frank at Pendemonium told me it may be possible to drill out a widget to fit a Parker cartridge. I haven't gotten around to it yet, but it should be easy. Also, some Sheaffer ballpens will take rollerball and gel refills. My Fashion has a Schmidt cartridge, and the Reminder Clip pens take Monteverde gel refills.

[ashbridg]

I like what you've done with the old Sheaffer's pens. Perhaps this "Frankenpen" that I cobbled together will be interesting to some following this thread.

 

For some time I have had an "Imperial" fountain pen, part of a lot of pens, that has pretty celluloid, but was missing its nib and feed. A friend recently showed me the J. Herbin inkball pen, which uses fountain pen ink and writes nicely, but is made of very slippery clear plastic. I found it too "fiddly" to use because of its slippery nature.

 

Having followed this very thread, it occurred to me to use the J. Herbin ball tip/section/feed/cartridge in the Imperial barrel and cap. As it turned out, the J. Herbin section, which is threaded to screw into its barrel, was very nearly a press fit into the Imperial barrel. The very back end of the J. Herbin section was a bit too large, so a light application of sandpaper tapered it just enough to fit in securely.

 

That's all it took and now I have a good-looking vintage inkball pen. Here are a couple of pictures:

 

That's a good looking Imperial, a combination of the old and the new, with the vintage celluloid body and and a demonstrator-style front end. A real head turner. The pensofdistinktion site has some interesting stuff. The guy also converts broken vintage pencils that are not repairable and would otherwise be unusable. Some of my pencils are broken and I can't fix them. Maybe conversion is a good solution.

[whych]

To the 'purist' I should imagine converting the old ball pen/pencil into something you can use again is anathema. I think like you that it's lot better to have a ballpoint or pencil that still has the old body, but decent, useable insides that take standard refills that are available today.

After all even replacing an ink sac is changing the pen, but it's unseen. ... and then the ink formula has also changes, so why not do the same with the pencil or ball point?

One of the few pencil mechanisms that can take just about anything and still last is the Yard o Led, but then look at the price lately!

 

@Ashbrig

I agree the Parker refill is one of the better ones and the sesign hasn't changed. ...but they can leak and when they do, they make more mess than enough! I used up half a bottle of meths cleaning the contents of an old refill from the back of a rolled gold BP. The refill holds a lot of ink!

 

I can't quite remember, but there was something about the Parker refill that I couldn't get to work when I tried drilling the old ball point refill front end out.

 

Also, doesn't it look odd that the point is a lot thinner than the hole at the end of the pen?

 

From memory, the old sac in my refill was still OK, just the ink was finished.

Did you ever try taking the point off one of the original refills and washing it out with meths and then blowing ink from a modern refill into it?

That way you don't need to modify anything and to refill the pen every few months is easy.

 

Unfortunately the Stratowriters aren't common over here and it is easier for you to get old refills there to play around with.

[ashbridg]

 

@Ashbrig

I agree the Parker refill is one of the better ones and the sesign hasn't changed. ...but they can leak and when they do, they make more mess than enough! I used up half a bottle of meths cleaning the contents of an old refill from the back of a rolled gold BP. The refill holds a lot of ink!

 

I can't quite remember, but there was something about the Parker refill that I couldn't get to work when I tried drilling the old ball point refill front end out.

 

Also, doesn't it look odd that the point is a lot thinner than the hole at the end of the pen?

 

From memory, the old sac in my refill was still OK, just the ink was finished.

Did you ever try taking the point off one of the original refills and washing it out with meths and then blowing ink from a modern refill into it?

That way you don't need to modify anything and to refill the pen every few months is easy.

 

Unfortunately the Stratowriters aren't common over here and it is easier for you to get old refills there to play around with.

Whych,

 

The Parker refill does cause problems because it flairs out where the collar enters the Stratowriter's threaded section. Same trouble occurs when putting it in the widget. But the Parker cartridge does almost fit, just not quite. I believe drilling out the section of the Stratowriter cartridge or the widget about 1/16th of an inch would allow the Parker refill to be countersunk into either one.

 

Yes, it is curious that the ink channel in the Stratowriter is thinner at the nose cone. I think it's because the system is pressure-fed and thus requires a narrow path for ink flow control. Just a guess.

 

My original sac had lost pressure, so it would not work, but the ink was perfect (because the pen was NOS), just the opposite of your experience. I haven't tried blowing ink from a modern refill into a Stratowriter. It is a good idea and sounds easy--and clean. Emptying the original sac was a messy affair. That old Stratowriter holds enough ink to paint a room, and I've got the blue fingers to prove it. 

 

Stratowriters are pretty common in my area. We have several pen shows within a couple of hours by train or car. So I do have a few refills to play with. Most people actually throw them away. Now that I have a pen authentically restored, the strategy is get another one working as a rollerball and maybe trick one out to fit a Parker refill. And the Space-Pen cartridge in the widget works nicely as a workhorse and a loaner.

[whych]

@ashbrig

The drilling bit was easy, but I think the thin part of the Parker refill was too short.

Before you start with playing with the roller ball idea, get the length you need from the top of the widget/home made widget to the end of the barrel and then take the widget and go to a shop that has a decent range of refills that you can test before buying one or else you spend a fortune on refills that don't fit.

 

I need to dig out my Sheaffer bits to get some pics so I can get a replacement cap for a red striated one, so will no doubt find my mods as well. I'll then be able to tell you what I tried.

From memory, the Sheaffer Rollerball was way too thick and the Parker too short.

 

The Space pen refill sounds a good idea if they last. I can then modify my old Pelikan and Geha BP's to take one as well and don't have to worry that next time I use them they will be dry.

[ashbridg]

Here's the Parker refill with the point peeking out of the widget. Drilling it out just a little should provide a perfect fit.

 

http://ashbridg.com/parkwid400.jpg

 

The two refills together show how the Sheaffer's cartridge is tapered at the neck. Enlarging the inner diameter of the widget should allow the Parker to sit deeper toward the front.

 

http://ashbridg.com/parksheaff400.jpg

 

Monteverde makes a gel refill that is an exact replica of the Sheaffer ballpoint one. It fits in the widget (or in a drilled out Stratowriter front end). It writes smoothly and requires no pressure. The problem is they dry out quickly. But the Monteverde gel does offer the best writing experience outside of a fountain pen, in my opinion.

Edited January 5, 2013 by ashbridg

[BamaPen]

SNIP... But the Monteverde gel does offer the best writing experience outside of a fountain pen, in my opinion.

 

Have you tried the Visconti gel rollerball refills? They are butter smooth.

[ashbridg]

Have you tried the Visconti gel rollerball refills? They are butter smooth.

I have heard they are good. Will they fit in a Stratowriter widget or in other Sheaffers? My Fashion has a Schmidt rollerball refill in it. The ball is ceramic and is a smooth writer.

[BamaPen]

Have you tried the Visconti gel rollerball refills? They are butter smooth.

I have heard they are good. Will they fit in a Stratowriter widget or in other Sheaffers? My Fashion has a Schmidt rollerball refill in it. The ball is ceramic and is a smooth writer.

Yes, the Visconti fits in the widget perfectly. It has tapered shoulders like the Sheaffer refill.

[ashbridg]

As timing would have it, PenHero just updated their library to include a Stratowriter User Guide. Here is the link:

 

http://www.penhero.com/PenGallery/Library/UserGuides.htm

 

Sheaffer says the Stratowriter will write in flight, under water, in the cold when fountain-pen ink will freeze, and upside down. The pen was expensive. The refill alone cost $3.50, the price of a low-end Balance fountain pen in the early 1940s (users could exchange their old refill for a new one for $1).

[whych]

3. Don't try to take the interior unit apart. It is sealed at the factory.

Pity you didn't have this before you took the refill apart!

 

What a bargain to be able to get a factory exchange unit for $1. Those reusable days are long gone and everything is 'throw away'.

[ashbridg]

3. Don't try to take the interior unit apart. It is sealed at the factory.

Pity you didn't have this before you took the refill apart!

 

What a bargain to be able to get a factory exchange unit for $1. Those reusable days are long gone and everything is 'throw away'.

I know, I saw that warning too late and have probably voided the warrantee. If Sheaffer didn't want people to take Stratowriters apart they shouldn't have made the cartridge to be so tempting.

 

It occurs to me that reusability may be the reason for having a sac in the pen. They could have skipped the sac and loaded the ink directly in the cartridge with less trouble. Too bad we don't see that attitude much any more.

Edited January 6, 2013 by ashbridg

[whych]

I don't think the main reason for using a sac was to resac them so much as the practical problem of having to contain the viscous in without it leaking. They could perhaps have just inked up the sleeve, but then it needs to breathe, so it needs a hole in the top which in the right conditions can allow the ink to leak out.

As we all know, most ballpoints end up leaking at some stage for apparently no reason. When they do, they make more mess than any FP could.

 

The sac then becomes a very simple solution to containing the ink and, because its walls are are not rigid, will allow the ink to flow through the ball point end when using it.

You probably find that the ink composition in BP's has changed to make it more viscous and allows the refill case to be used as the ink container instead of the sac.

 

Perhaps the way they were refurbished at the factory was by pulling the tip and blowing new ink into the sac from the front.

They simply refilled it perhaps after a quick rinse, but perhaps not because there is very little evaporation through the ball end which is the only end open to the elements. (The couple of refills I have will still write a couple of lines before stopping, so the ink didn't dry out as fast as the modern refills do.

You can also check the tolerance of the tip while its apart and then either reuse or replace it.

Edited January 7, 2013 by whych

[ashbridg]

Perhaps the way they were refurbished at the factory was by pulling the tip and blowing new ink into the sac from the front.

Your comment makes me wonder whether they reused the old sac or replaced it with a new one. In fact, it turns out they did both, depending on which kind of sac was in the refill. Sheaffer patented at least eight different sacs for the Stratowriter. Some did not refill well. One version of the sac was laminated. The inner layer was polyvinyl chloride (PVC), with the outer layer made from buna rubber (which is used in some pen gaskets). I believe the sac in my above photos is this type.

 

The Stratowriter Sac Filling Machine is described in detail in Sheaffer's patent application of 1947. 

 

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=US&NR=2638257&KC=&FT=E&locale=en_EP

 

The sac filling machine uses interconnected conduits and valves to vacuum the air from the sac, heat, compress, and inject the ink paste, and it measures the pressure inside the sac with a mercury column. The process was previously done by hand using a syringe, a difficult and time consuming method.

 

http://ashbridg.com/sacfiller400.jpg

 

Sheaffer's Stratowriter sac filler looks like a medieval alchemy machine

[Chthulhu]

ashbridg, would it be possible for you to repost the images you used in this thread, particularly those of the disassembled cartridge? None of your images are showing up for me, and this is a subject in which I have recently become very interested.

 

Thanks!

[ashbridg]

Hi Mike, I just saw your post. I did not know the photo links were broken and am happy to reload them. Also, more pics of recent Stratowriter projects are coming as soon as I can get the time.