Pelikan 140 Vs 400

[returnofpenguy]

I am curious to know the differences between the 140 and 400. They are both from the same time 1950-59. Is the size the only difference? I see the cost of 400 is about $75 more than 140.

 

Also, I am looking for a nice daily writer that I can carry in my shirt pocket and write during meetings. Would pelikan pens be suitable for this purpose? I don't want to buy a desk pen, since I have other such pens.

 

Are the treads on the cap too many? On some of my eye droppers, the treads take too long for pen to be ready to write.

 

I have seen these pens with flex nibs and some very interesting nib points. Is the flex nib a charecteristics of all pelican pen nibs?

 

Too many questions.

 

Thanks for your reply in advance.

[jgrasty]

I am curious to know the differences between the 140 and 400. They are both from the same time 1950-59. Is the size the only difference? I see the cost of 400 is about $75 more than 140.

 

Also, I am looking for a nice daily writer that I can carry in my shirt pocket and write during meetings. Would pelikan pens be suitable for this purpose? I don't want to buy a desk pen, since I have other such pens.

 

Are the treads on the cap too many? On some of my eye droppers, the treads take too long for pen to be ready to write.

 

I have seen these pens with flex nibs and some very interesting nib points. Is the flex nib a charecteristics of all pelican pen nibs?

 

Too many questions.

 

Thanks for your reply in advance.

 

Both 140 and 400 pens are excellent. Which you'll like better is personal preference.

 

Pelikans take 1/4 to 1/2 of a full rotation to take off the cap. You'll have no difficulty there.

 

I frequently carry Pelikans in my shirt pocket. Very rarely you may find a vintage Pelikan that has a cap that doesn't fit securely enough to put in your shirt pocket. None of mine have this issue.

 

Pelikan nibs of the era are typically semi-flex. I would not call them flexible, but they are very springy and have some line variation. Wonderful nibs, better than the stiff modern nibs, IMO.

[piembi]

Also, I am looking for a nice daily writer that I can carry in my shirt pocket and write during meetings. Would pelikan pens be suitable for this purpose? I don't want to buy a desk pen, since I have other such pens.

...

I have seen these pens with flex nibs and some very interesting nib points. Is the flex nib a charecteristics of all pelican pen nibs?

 

The 140 had been the cheaper line, the 400 had been top of the Pelikan lines. Thus the 400 is bigger, the binde is more colourful and the quality of the gold plating is much better.

 

Regarding the nibs there is no other difference than the size. Both pens come with the same semiflexible nibs that are distinctive for all Pelikan nibs up to the 1960s. There is a stiff nib type out there as well, the "Durchschreibefeder" marked "D", that had been made for carbon copies.

 

My favourite daily writers at the office are three vintage pens. Depending on the paper of my notebook I use a Parker 51 (decent ink flow), a Pelikan 400 and a Pelikan 140 (both gushers - even with Pelikan ink). All of them had been made as workhorse pens and they are equally suitable for everyday use.

 

I am also carrying a 1990s M400 to the office. Personally I stick to my vintage Pelikans (love the 1950s/1960s nibs). The M400 is the pen I offer if someone asks me for a fountainpen (yes, this does happen frequently).

[Bo Bo Olson]

I don't have a '50-54 400 or a '56 400N.I don't know those nibs and forgot what Rick Papas said. He did say the 140 was semi-flex, the 400NN 'flexi' and the 100-100N easy full flex.

 

I do have a 140 and a 400NN. The 120 is also a nice pen, for a school pen. Mine is always in rotation. The nib is as good in steel as my 14 C gold '90's 400.

 

 

The 140 is a tad smaller, but posts as long as a modern M400. The nib is smaller than both the 400NN and the more modern '90's M400.

The 400NN is a medium-large pen @ the size of a P-51. The M400 is a standard sized pen.

 

The 140 is a semi-flex nib.

The 400NN is a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex nib.

 

The '83-89 400 is a nice springy regular flex nib...don't have, I do have the tad stiffer '90-97 M400...it is more springy and writes a sharper line than the modern post '97 fatter blobbier nibbed M400.

 

Bear in mind what Piembi said, ""There is a stiff nib type out there as well, the "Durchschreibefeder" marked "D", that had been made for carbon copies.""

 

I would suggest the 140 or the Geha 790 as good semi-flex nibbed pens. The Geha 790 is the same size as the M400.

 

I think one should work one's way up the flex chain, semi-flex, 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex, and easy full flex. It allows you to develop a light hand naturally.

 

The semi-flex can be used by the ham fisted.

The 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex can be used by the slightly ham fisted. :embarrassed_smile:

 

For the older 100 or 100N's that had an easy full flex nib...you do need a light hand. They are not what I'd call a modern day work pen.

 

Semi = almost. A semi-flex nib is not a 'flex' nib. It is more a springy ++ nib, with both tine bend and spread. It requires half the pressure to spread it's tines than a regular flex.

It will through natural pressure make certain letters in a word wider. Giving you that nice old fashioned fountain pen script.

It is often a wetter writer due to ease of tine spread.

Of course you should not press the nib to the max all the time, but you can make it do a tad of fancy.

 

If you are interested in a bit of fancy flexible writing, I'd suggest more the 400NN....if your hand has developed enough to use it. It requires 1/4th the pressure needed to spread it's tines than a regular flex.

For real fancy writing get a 100-100N with an easy full flex nib, that is designed to do it. 1/8th tine pressure.

 

I think you should look at a 120, or '83-89 or '90-97 M 400 or a 140 semi-flex, as very good work pens.

 

I'm more into semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex/'flexi' nibbed pens.

 

But a major problem is what paper are you using at work.

If poor, then it could be semi-flex is not for you.

 

For nicer looking, the pre-98 M400 would be the way to go if you still want a better nib.

Tortoise is not all that expensive with a bit of luck on German Ebay...M400 tortoise '84-96 one year after and before the M400 started and ended...'83-97.

PM me for a German Cheat sheet.

[returnofpenguy]

Thank you all for your reply. Very helpful.

 

One question that always concerns me about the breaking of the filling mechanism and it's repair. Is it common for these pens to have problems with the piston fill? How expensive it is to get it fixed?

[Bo Bo Olson]

Seldom a problem. They have the up-to-date, mid 1950's plastic gasket. The early fifties might be more a problem. I do have a plastic gasket 'no name', war pen that works well.

My 140 and 400NN ('56), 120 (all-'56-65) and 1955 MB 234 1/2 Deluxe and few Geha's from the 'late-50's-mid '60s and other lesser brand '60s all with plastic gaskets work fine.

I expect my '90's and 2005 Pelikans to last as long with out repair as the ones from 1956.

 

There is an occasional problem, or plastic gasket repair would not be in the Marshal & Oldfield 'Pen Repair' book and Richard would not sell plastic sheets to make gaskets out of.

 

No idea what it costs, in that mine work fine.

The older or lesser early '50's pens with cork, can be a problem if they dried out for a couple of generations in the back of the drawer.

I do have some '30's-early '50s pens needing re-corking. As soon as I can block some time, I'll 'Repair at Home Alone"

Edited December 4, 2012 by Bo Bo Olson

[returnofpenguy]

Thanks Bo Bo Olson for the detail response. Very helpful.

[watch_art]

Very good pens - very hardy. If you get one from a good seller it will probably already be serviced or restored so no worries for a very long time.

[MontPelikan]

Here is a little review of my 140. OBB green striated.

 

 

Thank you for watching

 

MontPelikan

[Bo Bo Olson]

That was beautiful mastery of a pen.

 

The things I'd change in what I once said, is my 400nn was maxi-semi-flex (and not 'normal' like I as almost noobie thought.) There are many regular semi-flex 400nn's.

 

I have my 500, which is an OBBB signature pen........on such I could think to expect maxi-semi-flex....I'll ask the other owners.

 

I have another 140, and three semi-flex '50-54 pens....

 

I have lucked out in Oblique in a mix of semi&maxi with 15&30 degree grinds in OBB, OB, OM and OF. Again like semi&maxi, there is no rhyme of 15 or 30 degree grinds....out side my 500. I could well think, at the fabled corner pens shop, the salesman/nibmeister went into the back room and ground a 15 degree nib to 30 if the customer wanted more.

 

I'd decided not to chase OEF, in IMO for me it's too narrow to see a pattern, and is not wide enough for shading inks.

 

Outside of Osmia which it is easy to tell a semi-flex has a diamond on the nib and Surpa is a maxi-semi-flex, it is all pure luck to get a maxi-semi-flex. I think 1 in 4-5 are maxi-semi-flex.

I have both maxi-semi-flex in Pelikan, MB and Geha, besides Osmia.

[BillH]

Here is a little review of my 140. OBB green striated.

 

 

Thank you for watching

 

MontPelikan

 

 

No, thank YOU! That was excellent! (wish I could do that)

[Parker51]

To be completely practical, I suggest you measure your shirt pockets depth. They may vary, if you wear different makers shirts, significantly. I find that if it is a shallow pocket shirt the 140 works well, but the 400 is too long. If it is a deep pocket shirt, the 140 will sag a bit, but the 400 may be quite right. There seems to be no rhyme or reason in regard to shirt pocket depth and the cost of the shirt. So, just because the shirt was an expensive one doesn't mean it has a deep pocket and conversely, some cheaper shirts have deep pockets. Also, the thickness of the material and it's smoothness may make some pens better with some shirts. As example, very thin shirts with very smooth material for me require a pen with a tight clip to avoid the problem of the pen slipping out of the pocket when I bend over and to keep the pen in a specific location in the pocket. Thick shirts require a loose clip to avoid a tight clip being sprung or to be of the type which adjusts to the thickness of the material.

[Bo Bo Olson]

 

Parker51

 

[mitto]

I like both the 400 and the 140. In fact the bulk of my Pelikan collection consists of these two models. But the 400NN is more pretty. I have a tortise 400NN with disintegrating binde.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Sorry, just read Watch Art only does the 800&1000 and don't touch vintage.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[TheseAreMyPens]

On 7/8/2017 at 1:12 PM, MontPelikan said:

Here is a little review of my 140. OBB green striated.

 

 

 

Thank you for watching

 

MontPelikan

Fabulous. Thank you!

[inkstainedruth]

How did I miss this thread before now?  That video was a lot of fun to watch and clearly MontPelikan was having a lot of fun making it!

And thank you @TheseAreMyPens for resurrecting this thread!

Ruth Morrisson aka instainedruth

[Bo Bo Olson]

A 140 is a medium-small pen size that was very popular in Germany in the '50-60's. It how ever had a longer cap than the Geha 760, and I think the Kaweco Dia (and another or two, I can't remember right off the top of my head). That made it balance a bit better. A 140 posted, is the same length as a posted 400. The nib is smaller.

The semi-flex nib is as good as a 400's.

 

A 400 of the 140's era should hold more ink...1.95/2.0 ml, than the 140; in the 400 and the 400nn are longer. I haven't measured, but would expect the 140 to hold more ink than the modern '82-now 1.25 400.

 

I must admit the amount of ink loades, don't matter to me, in I don't or seldom fully fill my piston pens, because I'll want to change inks....faster. 1/3 to 1/2 will mostly do.

[stoen]

Please pardon my late joining the thread with so many good and useful comments. 

 

I’d only have to add that both appear noble and robust, well engineered pens, originally appealing to those whose part of the job had to do with handwriting. 

 

I have few 400s, and one 140 (1st year with exceptionally flex B nib). All of them are great writers.

 

The late model 400NN also has a spring cap mechanism which prevents from accidental opening in the pocket.

 

What one may also condider is color variety - they are different for each model.

 

Here is the well known all-round best source of detailed online information for comparison and reference:

 

https://www.pelikan-collectibles.com/

 

Hope this hint can help to whom it may concern.

🙂

[Bo Bo Olson]

On 12/16/2024 at 10:32 AM, stoen said:

(1st year with exceptionally flex B nib

I suspect a maxi-semi-flx nib.

 

I have some 35 semi-flex and @ 13-15 maxi-semi-flex nibs.

I believe that because no other than Osmia advertized a maxi, it was Degussa (the gold and silver producer for Germany) who took Osmia's nib factory in 1932 for debt. Degussa had continued making the more flexible Surpra/large Diamond nib. (mostly, not allways as reminded by folks with 30 & 50 Osmias. I only have 8-9.)

 

I think many companies ordered their gold nib ribbon wheel from Degussa instead of doing it themsleves. A lot cheaper.

Either a Degussa bookkeeper decision (daily gold price) or lazy warehouse workers sent the more flexible Supra alloy to other companies when they ordered a semi-flex alloy. Those companies did not advertize a more springy nib like Osmia. Advertizement is very expensive.

 

My flex chart....of halves.

........If you have a Pelikan 200, or a '82-97 400/600, it will be a springy regular flex. When well mashed, the tines will spread out to 3 X. One can not write  with the nib so mashed.

 

Semi-flex takes half that pressure to reach 3X. If one is ham fisted enough , one can write so maxed.

Maxi-semi-flex, takes half the pressure to reach 3X than a semi-flex. Or 1/4th the pressure to max a springy regular flex. Can write maxed, but one must remember...semi-flex and maxi are FLAIR nibs, not calligraphy nibs. Having to wrtie slow , means you are trying to make the nib do calligraphy....nib abuse. Just write normal...scribble along, and the natural pressure will give you line variation......unless cursed with a very light hand.

................

My first and still most flexible maxi was a Rupp nib...1922-70. It was such a shock, I spun in little circles for some three days muttering, that certainly is a maxi-semi-flex nib.

 

Of my twenty 'semi-flex' four others were maxi....but not quite as flexible as that Rupp nib. (Every time I saw a Rupp nib in one of those beautiful 3rd tier pens on Ebay...I finished second. So I don't know for real how other Rupp nibs are. Rupp was made in Heidelberg.

In Thomas's pen musiem in Heidelberg, there is a very large picture of him and his team on the wall....can't tell who he is, in he's dressed just as ill as his dirty workers....in he was a hands on boss.