Stub Vs. Cursive Italic Vs. Crisp Italic

[CoolFool]

I'm thinking of taking advantage of Brian Gray's (of Edison Pens) offer, in honor of Fountain Pen Day tomorrow, to give a free custom grind (Stub, Cursive Italic, or Crisp Italic) with the purchase of any current inventory pen.

 

But I don't know which one to get! Can anyone describe (or better yet show) the differences?

[doggonecarl]

Explained here much better than I can explain it:

 

http://www.richardspens.com/?page=ref/nibs/primer.htm

 

I'm partial to a stub.

[PAKMAN]

All three nib types (stub, cursive italic and crisp italic) give a thinner left to right line and a thicker up and down line. If you get a 1.1mm of any of the three, then the up and down line will be roughly 1.1mm wide. The crisp italic will give the thinnest left to right line, then the cursive italic, then the thickest of the three would be the stub. For ease of writing they go from easiest being the stub and hardest being the crisp italic. This is because the stub has the most rounding of the edges and the crisp italic has the sharpest edges. By ease of use I mean the stub is more forgiving with it's rounded corners and allows you to be less concerned about the angle you use and rotation of the nib, whereas the crisp italic must be set right on the paper to use it correctly and you can even cut your paper if you are not careful. On the other hand as far as making your writing more expressive they go in the other order because the crisper the edge the more variation you get as you change directions when you make your letters.

 

Hope this is helpful.

Edited November 1, 2012 by pakmanpony

[brunico]

For ease of writing they go from easiest being the stub and hardest being the crisp italic. This is because the stub has the most rounding of the edges and the crisp italic has the sharpest edges. By ease of use I mean the stub is more forgiving with it's rounded corners and allows you to be less concerned about the angle you use and rotation of the nib, whereas the crisp italic must be set right on the paper to use it correctly and you can even cut your paper if you are not careful.

 

A 'crisp' italic nib made for a fountain pen will likely have sharper edges than a 'cursive' italic but still have rounded corners, so neither should cut paper (cutting seems to come from diagonal strokes, if my experience with dip nibs is anything to go by). If the pen is held correctly and the writer has had some practice, both types will then be equally easy to use, and as fast as an ordinary nib.

 

Of course, stub, cursive and crisp are all arbitrary and subjective categories. People generally follow the continuum outlined here, but I have seen the same nib described as all three by different people, so trust but verify! Stubs aside, anything else to me is simply an italic, though they will have different characteristics, so it would be wise to specify what you're looking for to the nib grinder.

 

On the other hand as far as making your writing more expressive they go in the other order because the crisper the edge the more variation you get as you change directions when you make your letters.

 

True, but sometimes obscured by pen angles too far away from the diagonal strokes, or by writing that's a bit crowded for the size of the nib. Bear this in mind if you're trying to decide from online samples.

[linearM]

I have two pens with cursive italic nibs. I have an Edison Collier with a 0.9mm cursive italic nib done by Brian and it writes smoothly and gives me the line variation I like. I have a custom made pen with a B nib that I had Pendleton modify for me to a cursive italic nib and that also is a very smooth writer. I have a crisp italic nib on a Pelikan and find that a bit more fussy. The stub nib that I have doesn't have quite the line variation I was looking for. So, that has been my experience. I don't know if that helps. Good luck.

[tandaina]

I am SO tempted by that deal... He has some gorgeous pens. Thanks for the nib explanation folks, I'd also been wondering and this helps.

[CoolFool]

I have an Edison Collier with a 0.9mm cursive italic nib done by Brian and it writes smoothly and gives me the line variation I like.

 

I don't suppose you could post a writing sample from that pen????

[linearM]

I can, but not until this afternoon.

[dickydotcom]

These three are not from the same source but are an indication of the type of nibs.

The Sonnet was bought as an italic but does have the letter S on the feed and it has the least variation of the three.

Dick D

[linearM]

Here is a sample of what you could expect from a cursive italic nib modified by Brian. The sample shows shading with Noodler's golden brown.

Edited November 2, 2012 by linearM

[ANM]

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii101/matthewsno/DSCN0370.jpg

[Mainecoon]

Pakmanpony, Brunico, thanks for the explanation; really helpful. Same for the link. I was wondering what the difference was exactly and now I know.

[sexauerw]

Do be aware that not everybody uses the same definitions. A Sheaffer nib with a factory marking indicating a stub will most likely fit most other people's definition of a crisp italic. I have a couple that will slice through the page if I'm not careful, and they are clearly marked "S" for stub.

[Hex]

Do be aware that not everybody uses the same definitions. A Sheaffer nib with a factory marking indicating a stub will most likely fit most other people's definition of a crisp italic. I have a couple that will slice through the page if I'm not careful, and they are clearly marked "S" for stub.

 

That's interesting and informative Bill. I was under the impression that stub nibs were a result of grinding down another size, IE, M or B.

But you seem to say that Sheaffer makes one already and marks it with an "S".

 

I am eager to try my 1st stub and was thinking of getting a Bexley Corona "B" from Richard Binder and have him make it a stub.

Would he grind off quite a lot of the nib material ?

[xspect]

Just to throw mud in the water. I personally like a crisp italic oblique for a really unique line.

 

But be warned once you get the hang of a italic nib, it'll seems boring to write with a generic medium nib.

[CoolFool]

Thanks for all the help. I ended up choosing the cursive italic. Can't wait to get it!

[CoolFool]

But be warned once you get the hang of a italic nib, it'll seems boring to write with a generic medium nib.

I suspect you're quite right about that. That's kind of why I want to do it. Having been writing with flex nibs, I've already become less interested in "ordinary" nibs.

[Hex]

Do be aware that not everybody uses the same definitions. A Sheaffer nib with a factory marking indicating a stub will most likely fit most other people's definition of a crisp italic. I have a couple that will slice through the page if I'm not careful, and they are clearly marked "S" for stub.

 

That's interesting and informative Bill. I was under the impression that stub nibs were a result of grinding down another size, IE, M or B.

But you seem to say that Sheaffer makes one already and marks it with an "S".

 

I am eager to try my 1st stub and was thinking of getting a Bexley Corona "B" from Richard Binder and have him make it a stub.

Would he grind off quite a lot of the nib material ?

 

Hmmm, a reply to my own post. After reading about these nibs at Richard Binders site, it seems that a stub is more of a mild CI. I already have a cursive italic so a stub would be somewhat of a step backwards in that the lines it produces are less pronounced than what I get with the CI.

Does that make any kind of sense other than to me ?

[tinta]

In my own limited experience (I only use stub or cursive italic nibs) the italics from two well known nib-technicians can vary. One stub I've ordered is perhaps the sharpest italic I have, forgiving yet giving me quite a lot of line-width-variation.

On the other hand, I also have a cursive italic that behaves more like a well-rounded stub.

 

There may be suggested definitions for stub, CI or crisp italic, but it is the nib-grinder's own interpretation that comes through in the end.

More than likely, the grinding of italic nibs is much less of an exact science & more an art.

 

Having a number of italic nibs on hand may be a good way experience how they will perform for your own style of writing.

Hope you find the style of grind & width (grade) you prefer.

[CoolFool]

Edison Glenmont in "Molten Ores" Cursive Italic "F" 0.7 mm. Takes some getting used to, but fun!

 

Edited November 11, 2012 by CoolFool