Which Inks Are You Using Today?

[Intensity]

 

I got some GvFC cartridges recently to use when I feel lazy. They say that it's ISO12757-2 certified for document proofness. I don't think I can just write that to a bottle of water, it's a serious claim and they're German. They can't do it without proper testing.

 

Except Royal Blue, which is marketed as washable.

 

Edit: Fixed ISO standards number.

 

The problem in practical terms is that the ISO standard apparently allows for some pretty loose definitions of permanence. I've seen fountain pen and ink users get into debates about GvFC inks, linking what the ISO standard actually implies. Just look at reviews of GvFC inks and you'll see their water resistance tests and reviewer comments being puzzled with the permanence claims. The ISO standard just basically means there needs to be *something* left on the page to remain readable, but it's still a stretch for some of these inks. For instance, my Hazelnut Brown and Moss Green are so saturated and smear so much when in contact with water, you really need to rinse the affected area well and dab with a paper towel quickly to make the old writing legible. I have innocuous dye inks that are not claimed to be indelible by manufacturers but have much better water resistance. For example both of the Iroshizuku grays have much better water resistance than GvFC Stone Grey. Half of regular dye gray inks I've tried have better water resistance than Stone Grey. Spilling water on writing should not result in a smeary mess for ink that claims water resistance. GvFC inks might have better fading resistance than average though.

 

For example, does this Cobalt Blue look indelible to anyone?

https://blog.andersonpens.com/thinkthursday-faber-castell-midnight-blue/

(Image source: https://blog.andersonpens.com/thinkthursday-faber-castell-midnight-blue/)

 

Quote from the review: "Graf von Faber-Castell inks are self-described as indelible; this means that they are supposedly smudge-resistant, light fast, waterproof and are resistant to many solvents and chemicals. While I take issue with some of these assertions – especially the waterproof one – their ink is one of the most consistent on the market."

 

India Red:

https://blog.andersonpens.com/thinkthursday-graf-von-faber-castell-india-red/

(Image Source: https://blog.andersonpens.com/thinkthursday-graf-von-faber-castell-india-red/)

 

To be clear, I love the inks for what they are. I just have a problem with the misleading labeling of these inks, because people just assume these inks are very water resistant--and possibly higher maintenance as a result--based on the marketing. Instead the inks are just very high quality, apparently safe for any pen, pretty low maintenance. *Some* water resistance in optimal conditions, better than average fading resistance. Not sure about resistance to cleaning chemicals.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Intensity

[dennis_f]

Not to divert too far from the main topic, but thanks for posting these Intensity. Very informative.

[A Smug Dill]

The problem in practical terms is that the ISO standard apparently allows for some pretty loose definitions of permanence. I've seen fountain pen and ink users get into debates about GvFC inks, linking what the ISO standard actually implies. Just look at reviews of GvFC inks and you'll see their water resistance tests and reviewer comments being puzzled with the permanence claims. The ISO standard just basically means there needs to be *something* left on the page to remain readable,

Does ISO 12757-2 even use the terms permanence and/or permanent? From its Introduction section,

This part of ISO 12757 is applicable to ball point pens for documentary use. Part 1 of ISO 12757 is applicable to ball point pens for general use.

 

For documentary use, some requirements, in addition to those for general use, are necessary

 

a) to assure the legibility of lettering, and

 

b) for the handling and storage of documents during long periods of time (these requirements are often discussed with the archivist).

 

An example of documentary use is the preparation of documents that are required as evidence.

 

Furthermore, pens which meet the requirements for documentary use produce lines which are more resistant to modification (e.g. attempts to falsify a document) than those for general use.

Edited June 23, 2020 by A Smug Dill

[Intensity]

Does ISO 12757-2 even use the terms permanence and/or permanent? From its Introduction section,

This part of ISO 12757 is applicable to ball point pens for documentary use. Part 1 of ISO 12757 is applicable to ball point pens for general use.

 

For documentary use, some requirements, in addition to those for general use, are necessary

 

a) to assure the legibility of lettering, and

 

b) for the handling and storage of documents during long periods of time (these requirements are often discussed with the archivist).

 

An example of documentary use is the preparation of documents that are required as evidence.

 

Furthermore, pens which meet the requirements for documentary use produce lines which are more resistant to modification (e.g. attempts to falsify a document) than those for general use.

 

 

The permanence part comes from GvFC themselves in the form of "indelible" description:

https://www.graf-von-faber-castell.com/products/InkbottleCarbonBlack75ml/141000

 

"The manufacture of our indelible inks for fountain pens is an art form. Each one of our different vibrant colours inspired by nature requires its own formula and the highest quality ingredients. The excellent quality shows itself in the even flow of ink and the fact that you can start writing with the fountain pen almost immediately, even after long breaks. An ink is called indelible if it is smudge-resistant, reproducible, light-fast and waterproof, cannot be erased and is resistant to many chemicals and solvents."

 

"Document proofed"

 

https://www.faber-castell.com/service/frequently-asked-questions/faq-further-products

 

"Which inks are indelible?

The Graf-von-Faber-Castell inks in cartridges are identical to the inks from the glass pot. The following inks from the Graf von Faber-Castell line are indelible: Cobalt Blue, Carbon Black, Stone Grey, Moos Green, Midnight Blue, Violet Blue, Garnet Red, Hazelnut Brown, Deep Sea Green) The indelible property corresponds to ISO 12757-2 and is indicated on the packaging."

 

My earlier India Red example is confusing, because it's not listed there as indelible, but it is on this product page: https://www.graf-von-faber-castell.us/accessories/refills/ink#_-1566785337

 

Could be that as new ink colors were added to the line over time, someone forgot to add them to the main list on the Faber-Castell site.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Intensity

[DilettanteG]

Pelikan Edelstein Onyx in my Montblanc 146 with a medium monotone nib in a Graphic Image Journal:

 

 

I really like this Edelstein ink. The flow and dry times are excellent.

[GardenWeasel]

Sailor Jentle Doyou. A touch wet, yet great in a dry writing nib.

[inkstainedruth]

So far it's been J Herbin Lavender (scented), slightly diluted to get the ink started, in the grey Parker 61, F(?) nib; and Iroshizuku Murasaki Shikibu, in the grey Pilot Decimo, F nib.

Later, I have to pay the guy moving the dental cabinet, so for that it will probably be KWZI IG Blue #3, in the Pink Parker Vector, F nib.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[bayindirh]

• Pelikan Edelstein Tanzanite (Kaweco Perkeo / M, Faber Castell Loom / M).
• Waterman Serenity Blue (Pelikan 120 / F)
• Lamy Black (Lamy CP1 / F)
• Pelikan 4001 Royal Blue (Platinum Preppy / 0.3, Cross Century M)

Some of these pens will rest after their inks run out. Some will be cleaned and returned to their owners.

 

I'll probably be down to 2 to 3 pens since 6 pens is a bit too much to use in a regular rotation.

[ENewton]

I usually have only two inks in use at the same time, but right now I have three:

 

• Rohrer & Klingner Solferino in a Sailor Pro Gear Slim F. This is one of my least favorite inks--too pink for my taste--but I try to ink some pen with it every spring. Yes, I know it isn't spring any more, but if a pen isn't empty when the seasons turn, I continue to use it until it runs dry.
• Sailor Kobe Taisanji Yellow in a Platinum Balance. This is one of the few inks I have that aren't purple. It is one of my summer inks, useful for contrast with purples.
• Sailor Kobe Suma Purple in a Sailor 1911S M. I haven't had an "always-inked" pen for many years, but I just acquired a Sailor M in the new Wicked Witch of the West color and plan to use it consistently. I prefer not to switch inks in my nicer pens, so I think it makes sense to wed the pen to my favorite ink.

[chromantic]

I've been careening between Yomogi and Petrol the last couple weeks (with a little Cross Violet thrown in). Went to use the M400 with Stipula Dark blue tonight but it had gone dry so I used the Light Blue instead.

[dylim1]

Noodler's Green Marine

Faber Castell Hazelnut Brown

[Carrau]

Noodler’s Squeteague in a Santini Libra Laurel medium.

Pilot Iro Asa Gao in a Birmingham Pens Sixth Ave Gold Seam w/Nemosine stub

[carlos.q]

Vintage IG Montblanc Blue Black in a Parker 51

Vintage IG Montblanc Blue Black in a Pelikan 100N

Parker Quink Blue in a Pelikan M700 Toledo

Pelikan 4001 Violet in a Sheaffer Imperial

[chromantic]

Stipula Dark Blue, yay!

[inkstainedruth]

Because of the thread discussing the pros and cons of red, I filled my Pelikano with Diamine Classic Red. And because I was putting red ink in a blue pen -- and it being the 4th of July -- I decided to ALSO put blue ink in a red (well, burgundy) pen and tried a fill of the vintage Skrip Permanent Royal Blue I got last weekend in one of the Sheaffer Snorkels (interesting ink, in that it looks quite blue sloshing around in the bottle, and when it first goes down on the page, but then dries darker, and had a fair amount of shading on the paper in my Miquelrius journal).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

edited for typos

Edited July 5, 2020 by inkstainedruth

[white_lotus]

Sailor Sankodo Nishibisan Black Purple in a Gate City Belmont.

[Bristol24]

With all of the inks that I have to play with, I seem to have narrowed things down during this lock-down which is the exact opposite of what I thought would happen. Certainly, with all the free time, I would have a half dozen pens inked with a like number of different inks. Instead, I have three pens inked as follows:

 

Hero 232 Blue Black (iron gall) in my 1946 Parker Vacumatic with a medium width factory stub nib,

 

1944 Vintage Parker Quink Permanent Blue Black with Solv-X in a World War II era Eversharp Skyline with a flexible nib, and the same Vintage Parker Quink Blue Black in a 1930s Onward (Wearever) combo. I am growing to really like the vintage ink...almost as much as I like the now very difficult to get Hero 232 Blue Black.

 

Cliff

[SashK]

Sailor Yodaki

Taccia Benizakura

Sailor Yamabuki

Nagasawa Kobe Kitano Pearl

[torstar]

Beatles psychedelic purple in my Verne LE, has to be some fun connexion there.

[I-am-not-really-here]

Today's colors are Franklin-Christoph Classic Black and Sheaffer Skrip Melon Red.