Manifold Nibs?

[johntdavis]

Hi, everybody!

 

Looking at the nib listing on www.esterbrook.net, I noticed that several are listed as "manifold" nibs.I understand that these are a bit thicker/sturdier and were used for carbon paper copies and "manifolding"--I'm not quite sure what that second one is.

 

I can't imagine many of us have to use carbon paper anymore. So, what would the modern use for this kind of nib be? I was wondering if it held up better to someone who had a heavier hand/was still getting used to the light-touch of a non-flex fountain pen.

 

Thoughts?

[Hobiwan]

The term "manifold" is an older, more formal descriptive meaning "many". You've heard the term "twofold"? So the nib was indeed made stronger to make carbon copies, which may include two or more. Hence, "mani-".

 

As you surmise, being a stronger nib, it (they) will likely hold up better under a heavier hand than, say, a "general writing" nib.

 

My thinking is that they would last even longer when used with a light hand.

[aawhite]

A pen that you could lend to a non-fountain pen user.

 

I have an Esterbrook with a manifold nib, and I do not think that the nib can be damaged under any normal writing conditions.

Edited September 21, 2012 by aawhite

[OcalaFlGuy]

Not long ago I was in the market for some Fine nibs. I have plenty of Ms, but I was almost out of Fines.

 

I did some researching here between the 9461 Manifold and the 9556 that I was already familiar with.

 

I think it's important to keep in mind that ALL Estie nibs short the Flexies are Nails. There's really not even any spring amongst them so that shouldn't even enter into it. I found nothing to indicate the 9461 would be any less smooth than the 9556 and that in fact turns out to be the case.

 

The 9461's look a tad shorter to me which is fine because I think some of the Estie nibs are almost Too Long. It's shoulders are also much more substantial than the non-manifold nib. There is a very good chance some of the Fine nibs I was looking for would go into pens that go to newer Estie (fountain pen in general?) owners. Perceiving the 9461 would be just as smooth as the 9556, I purposely went with the 9461 for the also perceived more durable factor.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[Biber]

but I was almost out of Fines.

 

How does one become "almost out" of a particular nib?

 

To piggy-back on the op's question, what is Esty's "falcon" nib? Other than its funky shape, what's so unique about it?

[OcalaFlGuy]

 

How does one become "almost out" of a particular nib?

 

 

I use almost exclusively Medium Estie nibs myself. I have several NOS Medium nibs if I get one in a pen that's going to someone else that's original nib is less than nice. I personally haven't had much luck at rehabing pronged used Estie nibs. Most people I've done pens for have been happy with the Mediums I do have or the stock nib that came with the pen. I've never had Any real supply of Extra nibs in Fine. The few I did have before I got my recent supply were less than nice used ones.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[Biber]

 

How does one become "almost out" of a particular nib?

 

 

I use almost exclusively Medium Estie nibs myself. I have several NOS Medium nibs if I get one in a pen that's going to someone else that's original nib is less than nice. I personally haven't had much luck at rehabing pronged used Estie nibs. Most people I've done pens for have been happy with the Mediums I do have or the stock nib that came with the pen. I've never had Any real supply of Extra nibs in Fine. The few I did have before I got my recent supply were less than nice used ones.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

 

Ah, now I remember what you do. Sorry about that, I replied before I thought. Any insight about the Falcon nibs? I've never really found and answer from any of the Esty sites.

[escribo]

To piggy-back on the op's question, what is Esty's "falcon" nib? Other than its funky shape, what's so unique about it?

And while we're at it, what is "posting" as used to describe e.g. the 9450 and the 9550?

[johntdavis]

The term "manifold" is an older, more formal descriptive meaning "many". You've heard the term "twofold"? So the nib was indeed made stronger to make carbon copies, which may include two or more. Hence, "mani-".

 

As you surmise, being a stronger nib, it (they) will likely hold up better under a heavier hand than, say, a "general writing" nib.

 

My thinking is that they would last even longer when used with a light hand.

 

The name actually makes a lot of sense now that you put it that way. I hate to say it, but thanks to decades of Star Trek, when I think of "manifolds" I think of sci-fi things that make a Starfleet ship run, like these. I'm soon to be 29, and have only the vaguest memories of seeing carbon paper in hospitals when I was little. Other than that I've never seen it except for the account stub things attached to the back of my checks in my checkbook.

 

Does the stronger nib equate to a wetter line? Strongly considering getting a manifold fine instead of a regular 9000 series fine, now.

 

Thanks!

 

EDIT: Being able to loan the pen out is actually a big selling point for me. I flat out won't let anyone write with any of my gold nibs if they've never handled an FP before. Gold nibs are just plain easier to damage, and given how expensive they are I don't want anyone to break one but me.

 

That said, I'm happy to loan out steel-nib pens--if something goes wrong, I can get the nib replaced at a relatively small cost. Right now my loaner pen is a Paradise Pen Co. 5280 in F. It's a nice pen and a smooth, wet writer, and the nib is a bit shorter and feels quite sturdy and rugged. (It also screws out in case of an oops.)

 

If the Manifold F is functionally/tactilely identical to the regular 9000 series F, I just might try to snag one of those instead.

Edited September 21, 2012 by johntdavis

[OcalaFlGuy]

To piggy-back on the op's question, what is Esty's "falcon" nib? Other than its funky shape, what's so unique about it?

And while we're at it, what is "posting" as used to describe e.g. the 9450 and the 9550?

 

According to the below entry from Richard's glossary, the "Falcon" 2442 shape and name were derived from a similar dip nib they had prior to the Renew points.

 

Posting refers to an Accounting function where figures were written by hand (posted) in an Accounting Journal. The spaces to write in were very small and the paper cheap, so a fine exacting nib was needed.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[Ernst Bitterman]

I can't imagine many of us have to use carbon paper anymore. So, what would the modern use for this kind of nib be?

 

I find I need a manifold point at least once a day, as my work duties call for me to fill out a three-layer carbonless form. It's less common, but it's not unheard of. There is certainly something in the notion of them standing up better to the Ham-fisted Pen Borrower, too.

 

Does the stronger nib equate to a wetter line?

 

Sadly, no. A firm point can have a painfully narrow slit.

[Biber]

 

According to the below entry from Richard's glossary, the "Falcon" 2442 shape and name were derived from a similar dip nib they had prior to the Renew points.

 

I've seen than of course, and frankly I'm skeptical that those dip pen features actually transferred the original effect to the fountain pen nib. Just seems superfluous to me. Other nibs, even other Esty nibs, have done the same things without the odd shaping. So I'm still unclear as to exactly what a falcon nib offered that another nib didn't. More a marketing ploy somehow?

[johntdavis]

According to the below entry from Richard's glossary, the "Falcon" 2442 shape and name were derived from a similar dip nib they had prior to the Renew points.

 

I've seen than of course, and frankly I'm skeptical that those dip pen features actually transferred the original effect to the fountain pen nib. Just seems superfluous to me. Other nibs, even other Esty nibs, have done the same things without the odd shaping. So I'm still unclear as to exactly what a falcon nib offered that another nib didn't. More a marketing ploy somehow?

 

It was explained to me that the 2442 Falcon nib is meant for "backhand writing"--that is, left-handed people whose script tilts back to the left, instead of the right. I'm left-handed, but my script tends to tilt either to the right, or go straight up. I'd never imagined there was a special nib just for "backhanded writing." In school I was taught to write normally, but compensate for my left-handedness by tilting the left side of the paper up a bit. I never remember anyone trying to get me to change how I tilted my script.

 

Last night, after getting home from the Dallas Pen Show with my first Esterbrook, I went ahead and bought a NOS 9461 manifold fine off eBay, along with a NOS 9314F stub nib. This'll be interesting.

 

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

[Biber]

Somehow I get a very uncomfortable feeling when I think of using a fountain pen to make carbon copies. It conjures up images of sprung nibs and gouged and torn paper.

 

Do let us know how your new nibs write when you get them. I'm anxiously waiting on a 9314-F (<$18. shipped!!!) myself.

[andru]

I've got a Moore pen with a "Maniflex" nib. It is more "manifold" than "flex".

[Oldtimer]

This is one good thread I would place in a reference place for everyone to read.

 

Now. I will soon have a few Esterbrooks SJ at hand, three of them, in different colors: gray, red and blue. I love the 1554 nib because it gives me the exact fine line i need to draw in the type of paper found in small sketchbooks and journals you i bought some time ago for journaling and i haven't tested any of the other nibs. So if i don't know by experience i am asking Bruce. What other nibs would you put in the other two? I would love to have a stub or stub like nib and i asked one of them to be fitted with a 9314 M. What about a medium, what would be the best medium in your opinion? I definitely, like the 1554 for my sketches no matter what i am told so i am fixed on that. Thanks in advance.

 

And i think i will continue collecting colors and Fitting them with different nibs as long as i find good prices on restored Esterbrooks. It is not fun to change nibs and get all stained hands.

 

I won a few Osmiroids at EBay and I guess that will make my writing life more Osmiroids-fun. I am in constant search of things to write to practice, though i always loved writing and drawing.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Oldtimer

[OcalaFlGuy]

The 9284 is nice but Expensive.

 

I don't do so well with the Pure Obliques though I can do ok with the just semi-Oblique 2442.

 

My ground to CI nib Esties were done from 9668s. It's my favorite unground Medium Estie. If you can get a decent deal on a NOS 9668 ($12-15) and send it to Pendemonium to be ground to your specs, that'll be as nice if not nicer than a 9284, probably a bit cheaper, and certainly easier to procure.

 

On the other hand, for a newer user or if you don't want to have to worry about loaning the pen to a non-FP person, I'd go with the 9461. It is Especially Stout. (and less likely to be pronged)

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[pajaro]

What I like about the 9460 and 9461 is that they are slightly dry. I tend to write slowly, and these nibs don't blob on the paper like wetter nibs do for me.

 

I am a left handed overwriter, and I tried the 2442 falcon at least three times with an NOS nib. I have to say I see no reason why this would help a lefty, but it is a nice fine nib. Of course, I find the 9314-F a nice fine nib and the 9048 to be a nice fine nib, so the special qualities of these nibs elude me. I write with a very light touch, so there's no way I can flex a 9048. A nice fine nib. I suppose the 9460 and 9461 will never wear out in my pens.

[ac12]

When my wife told me she writes heavy. I decided that she would not be writing with most of my fountain pens.

Instead I got her an SJ with a manifold nib.