Open Source Ink Project

[LucasT]

Pelikan White ink

Yep, sadly it is a drawing ink for dip pens and the like. I think a white ink is definitely something we should play with though, (maybe a highly crystaline polymer that dissolves in water, but once the water evaporates it creates an opaque film? I've been thinking...)

 

Pencils+pens, I love ideas that stretch my brain, keep them coming.

[andru]

There is a set of recipes from the 1881 Household Cyclopedia that I think would go well in the old ink category, but each item should have a warning that these inks are not tested for fountain pens and may convert a modern fountain pen into a brick of gum Arabic with a rusted-out steel nib at one end. Or something.

Wow, thanks josiah, there's a lot of recipes there!

[sirach]

 

There is a set of recipes from the 1881 Household Cyclopedia that I think would go well in the old ink category, but each item should have a warning that these inks are not tested for fountain pens and may convert a modern fountain pen into a brick of gum Arabic with a rusted-out steel nib at one end. Or something.

 

I added the page to links

 

...the only copyright is 1881

... and since it has been out of print

... and that webpage copied from the original

...

... double checked with the legal department

...

... and it is posted to old ink....

[fiberdrunk]

Looks like an awesome idea, this Open-Ink website. Don't forget to include the Jane Austen ink recipe! From this thread:

 

Recently, several of us have discussed various iron gall ink recipes. Today, I got my hands on the recipe Jane Austen used circa 1813.

 

"To Make Ink"

Take 4 oz. blue gauls, 2 oz. of green

Copperas, 1 oz of half of gum arabic, break

the gauls, the gum & Copperas must be

beaten in a Mortar & put into a pint

of strong stale Beer; with a pint of small

Beer, put in a little refin'd

Sugar, it must stand in a chimney

Corner fourteen days & shaken two or

three times a day."

 

In a letter Jane wrote to her sister, Cassandra on 14 October, 1813, Jane expressed her concern that the ink bottle be filled. This was in a time when she did the majority of her writing.

 

 

You might want to include a note that this (and the Newton recipe) are for dip pen use only. Also, this Jane Austen one reeks like beer. Very musky!

Edited August 22, 2012 by fiberdrunk

[sirach]

Looks like an awesome idea, this Open-Ink website. Don't forget to include the Jane Austen ink recipe!

 

You might want to include a note that this (and the Newton recipe) are for dip pen use only. Also, this Jane Austen one reeks like beer. Very musky!

 

 

Will do

Edited August 22, 2012 by sirach

[fiberdrunk]

Also, all my own ink recipes are found on my Flickr account (click on the links on the left side of the page to see the recipes). They include: cooked and cold-process black walnut, pioneer and 2012 pokeberry recipes, pomegranate iron gall, and aleppo (Dr. Stark) iron gall. You can also see my modernized Jane Austen iron gall recipe. Technically, all these recipes are for dip pen use only, though in my notes in some of the recipes, you will see specific fountain pens I have been able to wrangle into accepting some of these inks. You're welcome to add them. Every so often I update them with new discoveries/experiments. The recipes include instructions for how I did it, what worked/what didn't work, how the ink ages, etc.

Edited August 22, 2012 by fiberdrunk

[andru]

Thanks for the permission fiberdrunk. I did link to a scan of some of your inks in an earlier post on this thread. I will try adding them to the wiki if nobody has beat me to it (and the Jane Austen and Newton recipes).

 

As you are into vegetal dyes, do you happen to know what the story is with J. Herbin and Omas? I've read that Herbin makes some sort of claim to their inks being vegetal based (hearsay at this point for me), and "someone somewhere" stated that Omas was the only other major brand making similar claims.

 

Maybe in the case of Omas this accounts for some of the variability in their blue documented by Brian Goulet.

[fiberdrunk]

 

 

As you are into vegetal dyes, do you happen to know what the story is with J. Herbin and Omas? I've read that Herbin makes some sort of claim to their inks being vegetal based (hearsay at this point for me), and "someone somewhere" stated that Omas was the only other major brand making similar claims.

 

Maybe in the case of Omas this accounts for some of the variability in their blue documented by Brian Goulet.

 

I don't know anything about the commercial inks. I don't have any connection to the commercial ink companies. No chemistry experience, either. I've only ever searched out the old recipes and methods as a strange hobby, being a former student of calligraphy and now a hobbyist in the pursuit of the most permanent inks for genealogy purposes. Sorry I couldn't help much there!

Edited August 22, 2012 by fiberdrunk

[pharmacist]

I want to contribute in some dye based ink recipes, later on, because at this very period I am too busy at the office as my colleague is still on vacation. Yesterday I receveid a few mails from individuals asking fot my home-brewed ig inks. At this moment the brewing has been suspended due to this and my apologies if you did not receive a mail back from me, but I certainly do not forget it and all will be contacted back when the inks are ready.

[sirach]

Also, all my own ink recipes are found on my Flickr account (click on the links on the left side of the page to see the recipes). They include: cooked and cold-process black walnut, pioneer and 2012 pokeberry recipes, pomegranate iron gall, and aleppo (Dr. Stark) iron gall. You can also see my modernized Jane Austen iron gall recipe. Technically, all these recipes are for dip pen use only, though in my notes in some of the recipes, you will see specific fountain pens I have been able to wrangle into accepting some of these inks. You're welcome to add them. Every so often I update them with new discoveries/experiments. The recipes include instructions for how I did it, what worked/what didn't work, how the ink ages, etc.

 

I have the modern Jane Austen posted... http://www.open-ink.com/inks/new-recipies/iron-gall/modern-jane-austen-ink... do you mind if we link the picture too?

[LucasT]

While we're on the topic of historic ink at least a link to http://ink-corrosion.org/ would be good. Great site on Iron Gall ink, with recipes, corrosion research, etc.

[sirach]

I want to contribute in some dye based ink recipes, later on, because at this very period I am too busy at the office as my colleague is still on vacation. Yesterday I receveid a few mails from individuals asking fot my home-brewed ig inks. At this moment the brewing has been suspended due to this and my apologies if you did not receive a mail back from me, but I certainly do not forget it and all will be contacted back when the inks are ready.

 

We would love to have you contribute... I think most would agree that you are currently the in-house expert on FP friendly IG inks. Whenever you have time... let us know...

[fiberdrunk]

Also, all my own ink recipes are found on my Flickr account (click on the links on the left side of the page to see the recipes). They include: cooked and cold-process black walnut, pioneer and 2012 pokeberry recipes, pomegranate iron gall, and aleppo (Dr. Stark) iron gall. You can also see my modernized Jane Austen iron gall recipe. Technically, all these recipes are for dip pen use only, though in my notes in some of the recipes, you will see specific fountain pens I have been able to wrangle into accepting some of these inks. You're welcome to add them. Every so often I update them with new discoveries/experiments. The recipes include instructions for how I did it, what worked/what didn't work, how the ink ages, etc.

 

I have the modern Jane Austen posted... http://www.open-ink.com/inks/new-recipies/iron-gall/modern-jane-austen-ink... do you mind if we link the picture too?

 

Yes, you can link my photos.

[fiberdrunk]

There's the U.S. Standard Ink recipe that was given in Popular Science (January 1935, pg. 54). Click here for that thread, for the recipe and where to find it in the Popular Science archive.

 

eta: Here's another cool thread I just found for the Finnish 1942 Standard Ink Recipe. It's sort of neat to compare the recipes.

Edited August 23, 2012 by fiberdrunk

[ElaineB]

Now that I have editor access, I'll start adding content to the Open Ink pages. I plan to begin with links to the ingredients (dyes, pigments, biocides, additives) that are readily available in small quantities at low costs. I think people will be especially surprised by the number of very effective preservatives that are safe to handle and easy to use. It's an area of intense economic interest to chemical companies, given how many consumer products contain water and need to be innoculated against bacterial and fungal growth when packaged and stored. As amateur formulators, we are fortunate to have easy access to the results of this research.

 

I'm still mulling over the question of which dye families would be suitable for inks. I realized a couple of days ago that the fiber reactive dyes I mentioned in an earlier post won't be permanent on paper. The chemical reaction that fixes those dye molecules onto cellulose only happens for an hour or so after you mix an alkaline reagent into a dye solution. So that's not going to work for bottled inks.

 

To make things simple for myself, I've decided that I'm going to start researching a dye-based, non-waterproof ink with good flow properties. I am going to concentrate on some basic questions: what is the optimal ratio of dye:water? What is optimal viscosity? What is optimal pH and how might that affect dye/water mixtures? What are the effects of the various additives (glycerine, glycols, surfactants, gum arabic, etc) and what are the optimal use levels of each? (As you can see, even the simplest ink formula has a lot of variables to consider.)

 

Finally, I'd like to add some documentation about manufacturing procedures, such as making standardized solutions to simplify measuring ingredients, and cleanliness protocols to produce inks that won't have lots of stray microbes waiting to colonize the ink bottle. Manufacturing hygiene won't be necessary when making test batches of ink, but when a formula is finalized, it'll be good to know how to keep contamination to a minimum. (We're not talking about elaborate sterile fields, or wearing protective clothing, btw. Just common sense more than anything else.)

[josiah]

I'm sure we've all seen Evan Lindquist's website, and through that his recipes for making historic IG inks (he's got a rather extensive list), but his Old Ink Appendix has quite good information on matters pertaining to the science, testing, and dyes used with IG inks.

 

ElaineB, I was thinking of you when I read this line: "Both tannin and iron salts are used as mordants in dyeing. That is, they form insoluble compounds with some kinds of dyes, and thus serve to fix them upon the fabric. Because of the composition of iron gallotannate inks, by no means all classes of dyes can be used in them. The dye must be of a type that does form an insoluble compound with anything else in the ink." I don't know much about dyes and dying or the chemistry of inks (ask Pharmacist?), but I think this has some hints for some of the questions you've been mulling over.

 

Also, I've added a few links to the site

Edited August 23, 2012 by josiah

[LucasT]

So do we want to finish compiling our historic recipes/FPN recipes before we start formulating new ones? When do people want to start formulating?

[thorn]

Don't forget patents, there's a bunch:

 

 

STABLE BLUE WRITING INK AND A DYE

 

 

This invention relates to blue azo dyes.

 

An object of the invention is to provide new azo dyes suited for use in aqueous alkaline inks, particularly alkaline inks for fountain pens, which dyes will, in such'media, have a desirable clear blue color, will have adequate solubility in such media;to impart a desirable color intensity thereto, and will have a higher order of stability in such media than is possessed by previously known blue dyes which were in other respects suited for such use.

 

Blue is, by far, the most popular color for writing inks. Blue dyes suitable for use in neutral or acid aqueous writing inks. • are known and widely used. It has become known that aqueous writting inks containing strong caustic alkalis have important advantages including quick drying by rapid penetration of the writing paper. However, no" satisfactory blue ,dye has heretofore been found which has the required stability in such inks. One of the best previously known blue dyes for such use is Brilliant Benzo Blue 6 BA Ex. Cone. (Colour Index #518, Schulz 6th edition #510). However, it has only relative stability in aqueous inks containing caustic alkali and slowly breaks down to a very undesirable pale, dull color when so used.

 

The present invention comprises;new azo dyes which have a desirable blue color, adequate solubility and a high order of stability in aqueous inks containing caustic alkali, rendering them eminently suited for use in alkaline aqueous writing inks. These new dyes have been prepared by tetrazotizing either 4,4'-diamino-stilbene2,2'-disulfonie acid or 3,3'-dichlorobenzidine and coupling the same with two moles of either K-acid or SS-acid. ./'•••

 

 

 

This one is from 1946.

Edited August 25, 2012 by thorn

[andru]

So do we want to finish compiling our historic recipes/FPN recipes before we start formulating new ones? When do people want to start formulating?

Um, it seems reasonable to suggest that you could start that? Seeing as you initiated the project, and you already make modern ink formulations... I'm not really in a position to propose recipes myself, at present, so I'm doing a little here and there in other respects, and in the process I may learn enough to propose an ink recipe someday soon.

 

If anyone would like to see something on the wiki, particularly something along the lines of modern formulations, but you find it a hassle, you can post it here or PM me and I will faithfully transfer it for you to the wiki, where you will continue to have the option to edit it at any time.

 

Edit: In addition to Jane Austen's (or rather Martha Lloyd's...) iron gall recipe, which I added on the first day of the wiki compliments of member Wildoaklane, I've added fiberdrunk's Black Walnut, Pomegranate, Aleppo, and Pokeberry recipes, including the images. Old recipes, reproduced with permission from other sources, but at least it brings them together in one place with guaranteed persistence.

 

P.S. I just came across a pokeberry ink reference in Faulkner this morning! (First page of Raid in The Unvanquished).

Edited August 26, 2012 by andru

[josiah]

So do we want to finish compiling our historic recipes/FPN recipes before we start formulating new ones? When do people want to start formulating?

 

As you're one of the few people posting who have experience making ink, I have a preliminary question for you:

 

What kind of setup do interested ink-makers need? To make IG inks that are safe for fountain pens using recipes such as one of the government specs (German, US, etc.), we might need more than what we would find in a reasonably well-stocked kitchen, but as an utter beginner, I have no idea.