Left Handed Italic?

[Andrew H]

I think it should be possible if you handle pen your pen in the same way than righties do.

I'm assuming you mean using an oblique and rotating the nib?

 

I'm however, unsure, but are you guys referring to something like this? I posted this picture in our local FPN group.

 

I am also a leftie and my co-members advised me to use that way in writing.

 

Btw, using a 78G M nib on the picture.

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/22685605/sn/252823300/name/IMG_7682.jpg

Yes. By the way, how's your grip? It almost looks like you have a 'death grip' going on, but that just might be the angle of the photo.

[georges zaslavsky]

I think it should be possible if you handle pen your pen in the same way than righties do.

I'm assuming you mean using an oblique and rotating the nib?

No, not all. Just look at the drawing I made a while back with my non dominant hand (left hand)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/georges2/calligraphy.jpg

[fiberdrunk]

I'm a "hook-over" lefty. Italic was always my most difficult calligraphy style (I could manage uncial and foundational hand much easier, as I naturally write at about a 30 degree angle... but the 45 degree angle for italic is much harder for me to achieve).

 

Anyway, I came across these tips by Gaynor Goffe on the CLAS website. She is a famous left-handed calligrapher who has written a couple of calligraphy books. She seems to favor what she calls "underarm"... the illustration of the hand cocked back looks unnatural and painful to me, though! It leaves me wondering if she suffers from carpel tunnel!

 

I sometimes think about finding a woodworker who can create a penholder that could compensate for my hook-over, so that I could more easily raise the angle of the nib to do italic and other hands, like Spencerian and Copperplate. There must be some kind of tool that could be created to help us! I really don't like the idea of turning the paper or writing upside down or backwards. There's got to be a way!

 

eta: Gaynor Goffe:

 

http://www.clas.co.uk/px/lefthanders-handposition.gif

Edited August 16, 2012 by fiberdrunk

[ArchiMark]

FWIW, I've found the best way for me is to be an underwriter.

 

Works great with my italic nibs and other advantage is no worries about smearing ink and contorting your hand position like many lefties do and getting carpal tunnel syndrome...

 

Of course, YMMV.....

 

 

 

[Andrew H]

I think it should be possible if you handle pen your pen in the same way than righties do.

I'm assuming you mean using an oblique and rotating the nib?

No, not all. Just look at the drawing I made a while back with my non dominant hand (left hand)

 

I'm not sure I understand. For an italic hand, you need the nib at a certain angle relative to the baseline. Otherwise, your thick strokes are where your thin strokes are and vice versa. Your diagram seems to apply to non edged nibs.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Andrew H

[ink mixer]

First, for lastwizard4 in post20, your paper orientation looks correct , but your nib in the photo appears to be parallel to the paper lines. For Italic, the nib needs to be 45 degrees from the paper line. Your vertical and horizontal line widths should have the same thickness.

 

Second, I don't understand Goffe's hold. I can't seem to hold a pen in that way. Does anyone know of a better photo?

[Andrew H]

Second, I don't understand Goffe's hold. I can't seem to hold a pen in that way. Does anyone know of a better photo?

Just use a tripod grip and rotate the paper. That underwriter hold looks unhealthy.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Andrew H

[fiberdrunk]

Second, I don't understand Goffe's hold. I can't seem to hold a pen in that way. Does anyone know of a better photo?

Just use a tripod grip and rotate the paper. That underwriter hold looks unhealthy.

 

Agreed! I tried it and couldn't manage it comfortably.

 

I found a blog called the Bill's Space: Left-Handed Calligrapher. He's posted a video of Art Pierce, another left-handed calligrapher. You can get little glimpses of his hand position. He's an underwriter and it doesn't look nearly as severely cocked back as the Goffe illustration.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn1eFF6GJK8&feature=player_embedded

 

Found this other video on YouTube, too, for left-handed writers (teaching children in particular):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i4CRw3DG-s&feature=related

This looks like a great website, mentioned in the video: Anything Left-Handed (in the UK).

 

I take a special interest in this, apart from being left-handed myself, I'm a homeschooling mom and I'm trying to teach my left-handed daughter to write properly, too, particularly italic.

Edited August 17, 2012 by fiberdrunk

[georges zaslavsky]

 

I'm not sure I understand. For an italic hand, you need the nib at a certain angle relative to the baseline. Otherwise, your thick strokes are where your thin strokes are and vice versa. Your diagram seems to apply to non edged nibs.

Wrong, I was using a lapis lazis duofold flat top fitted with a medium stub nib. Older nib points are different from today nib points

[tawanda]

Second, I don't understand Goffe's hold. I can't seem to hold a pen in that way. Does anyone know of a better photo?

Just use a tripod grip and rotate the paper. That underwriter hold looks unhealthy.

 

I agree. I tried that Goffe method last night and it caused dreadful strain on my wrist. All you need to do is sit straight at you desk, have the paper turned to 90 degrees so that the lines run from the back of your desk towards you chest. Place your arm across the desk, elbow to the left, wrist to the right. And tilt your hand very slightly to the left. If your paper is the centre of a clock your hand should point towards 2pm. This is comfortable and allow the nib the correct degree of rotation.

[tawanda]

I think it should be possible if you handle pen your pen in the same way than righties do.

I'm assuming you mean using an oblique and rotating the nib?

 

I'm however, unsure, but are you guys referring to something like this? I posted this picture in our local FPN group.

 

I am also a leftie and my co-members advised me to use that way in writing.

 

Btw, using a 78G M nib on the picture.

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/22685605/sn/252823300/name/IMG_7682.jpg

Yes. By the way, how's your grip? It almost looks like you have a 'death grip' going on, but that just might be the angle of the photo.

 

You do look like you are holding on to that pen for dear life. Your gripping it like that will not help. Also, you are printing, not joining up your letters. To really get the best from an italic nib, to see what it can do, you should try to write cursive.

[lastwizard4]

Yes. By the way, how's your grip? It almost looks like you have a 'death grip' going on, but that just might be the angle of the photo.

 

You do look like you are holding on to that pen for dear life. Your gripping it like that will not help. Also, you are printing, not joining up your letters. To really get the best from an italic nib, to see what it can do, you should try to write cursive.

 

AndrewH, I'm still working on my grip. I did have a death grip on my exam earlier. Pardon me as I'm still a newbie learning the basics of fountain pens.

 

tawanda, the picture is from a thread I created in our local fpn group. I'm still having a hard time writing on that way that's why I used script. I was just confirming if the orientation of the paper and probably the pen (excluding my grip) is correct. Sorry for my grip.

Edited August 17, 2012 by lastwizard4

[Algester]

ohh god I know I'm doing things wrong but when I rotate my paper my perception of letter forming GOES REALLY OFF with that said I'm still making a compromise without the rotating of paper thing... right now my pen isnt having a healthy life :X I'm pretty much writing hooked with the nib REALLY facing me meaning I'm pushing the nib, I find it harder to actually make things underhanded in italic but not copper plate...

Edited August 18, 2014 by Algester

[EFP]

As a lefty underwriter, I agree about the 45-degree angle, writing from back-of-desk to front. I do have trouble with a "death grip" myself. I used to fold my thumb over both forefinger and middle finger, but that was pre-FP writing.

 

If any underwriter lefties out there wouldn't mind posting a photo of their grip I'd appreciate it. I suppose I could google it but it seemed like a good thing to ask for this discussion. Thank you!

[GandalfTheGrey]

I have experimented with specially cut quills (I cut them myself). I will try to upload pictures later, but essentially one functions rather like an "architect's" nib in that for a lefty underwriter the line produced looks exactly like that of a righty using a stub nib. The other has a square nib that is cut on a 45 degree slant, allowing the user to hold it roughly perpendicular to the page, again producing a stroke with the thicks and thins going in the right directions. Hopefully this will become much clearer when I post pictures later.

[Algester]

I have experimented with specially cut quills (I cut them myself). I will try to upload pictures later, but essentially one functions rather like an "architect's" nib in that for a lefty underwriter the line produced looks exactly like that of a righty using a stub nib. The other has a square nib that is cut on a 45 degree slant, allowing the user to hold it roughly perpendicular to the page, again producing a stroke with the thicks and thins going in the right directions. Hopefully this will become much clearer when I post pictures later.

that will help I was already thinking grinding up a 1.5 Lamy Italic but without any information asides it's hard for me to say

http://i.imgur.com/Agg2MBYl.jpg

 

this is with me pushing my nibs and the nib is facing my eyes you can say it's like I'm watching the nib of my pen as I write which obviously isnt a good writing posture

Edited September 2, 2014 by Algester

[GandalfTheGrey]

Here is a rather poor video showing the use of the first quill I mentioned:

 

 

I apologise for the poor Insular Script; it was my first time trying to write and hold a camera simultaneously because my tripod had broken.

 

Here are some close up pictures:

 

The quill is a bit messy, sorry about that. I'll post more about the second later. Basically, it is a stub nib cut at an angle, not so special, but it is better for larger writing.

[Algester]

I can see that the angle is like a left foot? hmm I'm going to buy some more Lamy nibs and grind the other one to look like a right foot all Italic I already ground one into a left oblique so far usable but not for Italic writing

[Algester]

I have a feeling one day one might see this useful, and yes I ground them... they can do Italic writing just fine more so the right oblique but again over writing is the best way to go

http://i.imgur.com/9Ensn5nl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/osnibbFl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/054HQYnl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/G7apEl7l.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/egWD2dzl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/pJZP0mVl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/vTqGkXOl.jpg

Edited September 8, 2014 by Algester

[sangrisano]

I've just found an Osmiroid 65 that has a 'Left Italic' nib. The nib point (?) is slanted to the left, I think this should solve the problem...