Forgery Proof And Bullet Proof

[sproosemoose]

What does forgery proof ink mean?

Also if an ink is bulletproof, does it mean it contains iron gall? If not what ingredient makes it bulletproof?

 

Thanks!

[AndyLa]

I believe Forgery proof is in regards to writing checks (or other important documents). Someone will not be able to wash off or get rid of the ink and then alter the check/document in a fraudulent way without it being clearly noticeable. If you are talking about Noodler's bulletproof inks I'm pretty sure they don't contain iron gall, but I haven't the slightest idea what Nathan uses.

[dizzypen]

Bulletproof inks are so because of cellulose reactive dyes. Which ones? No one can say. What combination? No one can say. Nathan, the maker of Noodlers Ink does not give this sort of information to the public. To my knowledge, none are iron gall.

 

Forgery proof inks will persist on the paper despite what chemicals a forger may try against it. Often times these inks will also show that they have been tampered with through a change in color.

[welch]

Think of it this way:

 

- Forgery-proof is a marketing trick to sell Sanford Uniball pens. Forgery consists of faking a signature, so no ink is smart enough to understand that it is being used to imitate a signature on a blank check someone has stolen.

 

- Bulletproof inks consist of an element that binds with the paper in such a way that your writing cannot be erased easily. Useful if your writing might get splashed or dropped into water. The likelihood is debated enthusiastically (how real is the risk?), but if you need some kind of waterproof ink, then you need it. "Iron-gall" was a component of inks used for many hundreds of years. It is hard to wash, but there are other water-proofing methods. (My true favorite is Sheafer's secret ingredient RC-35, but that's another story)

[CAG_1787]

Certain unscrupulous individuals can "wash" financial documents with certain chemicals (most of which are very easy to obtain), which removes the handwritten portions while leaving the machine-printed parts intact, whereupon they can insert their own specifics. It's particularly a problem with checks. More recently, even more high-tech nefarious fellows have used UV or lasers to remove the handwritten parts.

 

Bulletproof ink has been deliberately formulated to bind to the cellulose of paper, so the ink can't be removed with destroying the paper itself. The Uniball Signo was the first mainstream (non FP) to deliberately tout this attribute (though as Welch correctly points out, the advertising blurb of "forgery-proof" was misleading). The Signo uses an ink in which particulate matter is suspended. When the pen is used the ink dries, the particulate matter binds to the paper, effectively limiting washing. Of course, this technique can't work well for FPs (they don't ink with floating particulates in there - can clog the feed), so Nathan, in his brilliance, came up with an alternative method that chemically binds the ink itself chemically to the paper.

 

Hope that answers your question.

[leod]

I use iron-gall inks for checks, is this safe or should I go with bulletproof?

[reval]

I use iron-gall inks for checks, is this safe or should I go with bulletproof?

 

Seems safe to me, most fraud has gone digital anyway.

[welch]

I use iron-gall inks for checks, is this safe or should I go with bulletproof?

 

Seems safe to me, most fraud has gone digital anyway.

 

If you like iron-gall for other reasons, or like a color available in bulletproof, then use them and be happy. Being bulletproof or otherwise tamper-proof is probably unnecessary in checks unless:

 

- you meet a fraudster who is looking for one of the (few) people who still use fountain pens and

- you choose not to use tamper-resistant checks

 

As reval notes, you are many times more likely to be hurt by someone who has stolen credit card information, or has snatched some other form of your digital identity.

[The Good Captain]

I am interested to find out just how long a cheque, once filled in and signed, is actually in a position where it could be tampered with. I don't see so much anxiety by people here in the UK for example, so is it or has it been so much of a problem in the US etc, for such concerns and such fervent ink development over such a relatively short space of time. I suppose the same could be said about legal documents and so on, as well.

Or is it just a marketing tool to make people believe they need yet another 'type' of ink (as opposed to just colour)?

I'm sure there are answers out there.

[wastelanded]

Captain, do I remember reading something about the imminent demise of the cheque in the UK?

[Oranges and Apples]

A quick search and this article came up: GFalls man charged with stealing checks from mail

 

The article is dated Tuesday Jun. 5th, 2012.

 

And yes, it happens often enough that it is a problem which must be dealt with.

 

And the ingredients are kept secret to (speculation) prevent the forgers from exploiting the ingredients.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Oranges and Apples

[The Good Captain]

Captain, do I remember reading something about the imminent demise of the cheque in the UK?

Yes and no. The banks that I know about no longer allow the use of a current account debit card as a 'cheque guarantee'. In other words they don't guarantee that there are funds available. Some smaller guest houses or bed & breakfast establishments do not have 'card-reading' machines, terminals or whatever, so cheques or cash are the only options. People still like to send cheques in the post (birthdays, Christmas etc) and for those and other reasons the cheque has been given an indefinite reprieve.

What might speed up its demise is not the fact that the details and signature could be altered or whatever, but that there is now no longer a way of guaranteeing that funds are available, especially for face-to-face or over-the-counter transactions. Postal dealings are still potentially 'dangerous' in that respect. And of course, PayPal, direct money transfer using on line banking and even paying devices on mobile phones are becoming all the rage.

Personally though, I love them!

 

 

[51ISH]

Think of it this way:

 

- Forgery-proof is a marketing trick to sell Sanford Uniball pens. Forgery consists of faking a signature, so no ink is smart enough to understand that it is being used to imitate a signature on a blank check someone has stolen.

 

I use Uniball to sign my cheques (checks) for precisely this reason....always been a sucker for a good

marketing ploy Just keep me away from Montblancs :ph34r: Runs for cover

 

 

Captain, do I remember reading something about the imminent demise of the cheque in the UK?

 

There is something in what you say....a number of businesses....some big name supermarkets for example no longer take cheques as a means of payment (This may of course be due to the guarantee problems that The Good Captain explained)

It did seem at one stage that it was only a matter of time before the cheque disappeared for good ....now it seems to have had a reprieve....at least for a while.......a classic case of "Hurry Up....and......Wait" :roflmho:

Edited June 28, 2012 by 51ISH

[JLT]

Permanence is an important consideration for certain applications - fraud, forgery and financial instruments notwithstanding. I keep a number of technical journals that are essential to my practice and I use bulletproof and iron gall inks exclusively. Overkill, some might say. Experience offers vigorous disagreement with that. A little over one year ago, an air conditioner condenser line failed in the ceiling over my office and water dripped all over my desk, table and credenza over night. Many things were ruined, but my journals, thoroughly soaked and soggy, were all perfectly readable. I have since copied their contents into undamaged journals but without bulletproof and iron gall inks, I would have had a serious setback on my hands.

[stuartk]

I feel that the whole "forgery-proof" thing is just a marketing ploy. I worry more about identity theft or getting my credit card info stolen. (I also don't use ATMs anymore.)

 

What I want out of a "bulletproof" ink is that it behaves well (Noodler's Bulletproof Black is the gold standard for this), and that it be reasonably waterproof or water-resistant. I don't want to have to worry about a drop of coffee or tea wiping out what I've written. In addition, I want to be able to go back to what I've written 20-30 years from now and still be able to read it.

 

I do use other inks that aren't as durable, but for things that I'm going to want to keep (mainly class notes or a journal) I use a bulletproof ink.

 

I did use non-bulletproof inks in the past for these things, and have mostly not had any problems, but I have lost some old notes from college because I used Parker Washable blue ink and they have faded into illegibility.