Writing Slope Dilema

[Skoff]

So, the veneer is ordered and on its way - nicely grained rosewood for the sides and back, walnut for the top and front. A variety of bits of brass should be arriving over the next few days. I'm preparing to remove the old veneer at the weekend, though I may delay that job if the weather is still inclement following Michael's advice to do that job outside...

 

Michael, what sort of glue do you recommend for sticking the veneer and brass to the box? I have a tub of PVA, and a bottle of 'wood glue', are either of these any use?

[my63]

Hi PensMakeMemories

Please check there is enough space for your pens before you stick or cut anything. I stick dowels to card to get the divisions right then I can stick the card straight into the box when it is right.

My little boxes are 6in x 8 in I can either divide them for 4 or 5 pens.

Have you decided what wood you are going to use.

Michael

[my63]

So, the veneer is ordered and on its way - nicely grained rosewood for the sides and back, walnut for the top and front. A variety of bits of brass should be arriving over the next few days. I'm preparing to remove the old veneer at the weekend, though I may delay that job if the weather is still inclement following Michael's advice to do that job outside...

 

Michael, what sort of glue do you recommend for sticking the veneer and brass to the box? I have a tub of PVA, and a bottle of 'wood glue', are either of these any use?

Hi Skoff

I am looking forward to seeing your project progress.

I use evo-stick weatherproof wood adhesive (blue bottle) or the veneer will peel off if it gets damp.

I dont want you to take this the wrong way but make sure you have removed all of the glue before you start applying any fresh glue as it will react and it makes a mess.

When it comes to applying veneer hot scotch glue or pearl glue is the old way with a veneer hammer which is not a hammer it is a piece of wood with a strip of brass embedded in it.

My favourite method now is to use my trusty iron without steam then using the veneer hammer to flatten the veneer.

If you plan on using glue and clamps you will need a piece of wood the same size as your lid and ideally a piece of the carpet tile and some cling film. And six or eight clamps.

there are some great videos on youtube Peter Dunsmore is very good

Hope that helps

 

Michael

[Skoff]

Hi Skoff

I am looking forward to seeing your project progress.

I use evo-stick weatherproof wood adhesive (blue bottle) or the veneer will peel off if it gets damp.

I dont want you to take this the wrong way but make sure you have removed all of the glue before you start applying any fresh glue as it will react and it makes a mess.

When it comes to applying veneer hot scotch glue or pearl glue is the old way with a veneer hammer which is not a hammer it is a piece of wood with a strip of brass embedded in it.

My favourite method now is to use my trusty iron without steam then using the veneer hammer to flatten the veneer.

If you plan on using glue and clamps you will need a piece of wood the same size as your lid and ideally a piece of the carpet tile and some cling film. And six or eight clamps.

there are some great videos on youtube Peter Dunsmore is very good

Hope that helps

 

Michael

Yes that really does help, thanks.

 

I was going to use clamps, but I may have a go at making a veneer hammer, it doesn't look too tricky and seems to be the preferred method of getting the veneer flay and bubble-free. A bit of practice on a bit of waste wood may also be in order. Do you find you need to clamp the veneer after you have used the veneer hammer, or is it fine after you have left it to dry?

 

I think tonight I will be watching the Youtube videos on the various techniques.

 

I'm happy to post pictures when I get going, but I don't want to hijack the thread, I already feel bad about asking so many basic questions.

[my63]

I dont look upon this as my thread it belongs to those who read and especially to those who contribute.

 

Veneer hammer is only used with hot hide or scotch glue or an iron and pva glue.

 

Clamps are used with cold pva so when you apply the glue thinly then the veneer is applied then the cling film then the carpet tile then the wood packer followed by clamps.

 

Then you have to think about the order in which you apply the veneer the inside edges are first then the back, sides, front and finally the top.

This minimises the edges that are visable. that is the order I do it in.

 

If the top and front are to flow around the front edge of the box use chalk to make a number of marks before you cut burr can chip and crack easily I use masking tape to hold everything together while I am cutting it will keep any small pieces together so you can glue them back on.

 

I am trying not to overload you with information but I want your box to be as good as it can be.

 

I have a set of cheap pallet knives I got from ebay really handy for getting glue under venneer small paint brushes for spreading glue.

Cling film stops the glue from sticking to the carpet tile which in turn evens out the pressure from the wood which evens out the pressure from the clamps.

 

Michael

[Skoff]

I see, that's much clearer in my mind now.

 

Good advice about thinking about the order of application, I probably would have put the top on first as it's a prettier veneer and it's easy to get excited about such things.

 

I think I am going to do some trial runs and see what works best for me. Since I already have cold PVA glue, clamps, cling film, and carpet tiles that I can use, this seems like the first port of call for a trial run.

 

The advice is really helpful and very gratefully received, I'm listening to it all. It seems a little less daunting when you can share experiences.

[my63]

You are welcome.

I have made lots of mistakes but I usually work my way through.

Check the expiration date on your glue my first piece failed because the glue was out of date.

Trial runs are a good idea when I first started my veneer kept moving around under the clamps so I started using masking tape to hold it in place whilst clamping then i found the masking tape was really hard to remove after 24 hrs in clamps.

Pva starts to cure after 30 mins so I found i could remove the clamps take the tape off check all was in place then reapply clamps for 24 hrs.

It is easier to wipe excess glue off with a damp cloth than to remove it with sandpaper when it has cured.

I keep small off cuts of wood for filling cracks and splits under veneer if your surface has splits or cracks they will show through the veneer model shops also sell wood in small strips 2mm x 2mm etc which are also great for filling gaps.

I am home this weekend so will be here if you need to ask any questions if I think of anything else I will let you know

Michael

[PensMakeMemories]

Hi PensMakeMemories

Please check there is enough space for your pens before you stick or cut anything. I stick dowels to card to get the divisions right then I can stick the card straight into the box when it is right.

My little boxes are 6in x 8 in I can either divide them for 4 or 5 pens.

Have you decided what wood you are going to use.

Michael

 

The purpose of this box will be to hold 5 esterbrook dollar pens, and I believe, if my math is correct and the dimensions of the pen that I got from the internet are correct, that this box will hold them perfectly. Although, when I get home I will definitely double check the dimensions of the pen and redesign accordingly. Measure twice cut once, or so they say.

 

As far as the material goes, I am planning on using oak and only using veneer to create the pattern on the cover. The veneer will be walnut, and it should match the dark brown suede that I plan on using. I have looked up the cost of everything I need, and with these materials it should not cost me much more than $30 to make the box and they are all attainable from my local Menard's and Jo-Ann fabrics (minus the hinge). Very reasonable for a first attempt! If everything goes smoothly I will probably consider working with some more expensive materials.

 

And as you said you didn't mind sharing your threads I will most likely continue to post my progress in your little boxes thread.

 

Thank you for sharing your experience and giving such great advice!

 

PensMakeMemories

[my63]

I am sure that your box will be fantastic I look forward to seeing your updates on the little box thread.

Michael

[fuchsiaprincess]

I am sure that your box will be fantastic I look forward to seeing your updates on the little box thread.

Michael

 

Ditto

[my63]

All of the veneer is now applied I have started cutting the hole in the veneer for the cartouche I really dont like this part of the restoration process as it is ver easy to wreck the veneer and that will mean stating over from scratch.

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7292/8744407882_cec5c36812_z.jpg
IMG_3567_1 by my0771, on Flickr

 

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7281/8744409108_60a4708aba_z.jpg
IMG_3570 by my0771, on Flickr

 

This veneer has not been sanded yet it will change once that process starts

 

Thanks for looking

 

Michael

[PensMakeMemories]

I am sure that your box will be fantastic I look forward to seeing your updates on the little box thread.

Michael

 

 

 

Ditto

 

Thanks to both of you!

[my63]

Have you ever had one of those days

 

I have been making a little box for a member of FPN and today i went to fit the interior only yo find the lid had warped I took a chance and only veneered the top.

 

I started polishing the NESSR box today and with a little help from one of my four legged friends it got nocked over and ended up with two lovely dents in the top of the lid.

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7322/8747478527_976d5f9dcc_z.jpg
IMG_3591 by my0771, on Flickr

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8125/8748602360_4031cdeb63_z.jpg
IMG_3587_1 by my0771, on Flickr

 

My third mistake was that two special boxes I am making are the wrong size.

 

It has not been such a good day today.

 

Michael

[mhguda]

Michael,

I can feel your pain. There are days where nothing you want to do goes right. The only remedy I know is: take a break. Let it rest for a few days. Something is trying to tell you you're tired. Remember, this is a hobby - it has to be enjoyable. There is no deadline...

Even with the dents, that box looks beautiful. I'm sorry that the two special boxes are the wrong size, but are they otherwise all right? Why not redefine the right size? Those are the teachers' gifts, right? Only you know the "right" size.

 

All the best to you.

[my63]

Hi mhguda

Wise words and of course you are right,

I did leave it for a little while almost an hour in fact.

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7344/8750630242_b3d92dab26_z.jpg
Untitled by my0771, on Flickr

 

I used a small paint brush to apply a small amount of water to the damaged areas then applied heat with an iron over a cloth pushing the steam into the wood below swelling the wood and pushing the dent out.

Well thats the idea as you can see from the yellow circle above the dent has been pushed up, Of course there is a pay off when you add heat to veneer it is called shrinkage the crack highlighted by the yellow oval extended.

As the heat reactivates the glue the veneer can move and crack.

I will fix the crack later.

As the heat spreads accross the surface the veneer tends to bubble up so i have heated the whole lid with the iron and run the veneer hammer over it then carpet tile wood and clamps for a couple of hours.

Fingers crossed.

The small boxes will not go to waste.

Thanks

Michael

[mhguda]

I am keeping my fingers crossed for you. It's interesting sharing all the ups and downs. Amazing that a simple box can hold so much struggle. Thanks for opening my eyes, at least. Looking forward to the rest of the story.

[Skoff]

Uh oh, sorry to hear about your bad day in the workshop Michael. I suppose it's all part and parcel of doing these jobs. I have no doubt that you will recover the box to where you want it to be. I'd be interested to hear and see what you do to fill the cracks. Then we can all use your accident as a learning process. Every cloud and all that.

 

I got started on veneer removal yesterday. It's a pretty long process, in a couple of hours I only managed to remove the top of the box. I found it easier when I turned the iron up a little. It is very satisfying to get a big chunk off in one go! I think it's going to take a long time to remove all the residue of the glue left behind. It's pretty horrid stuff.

 

I'm still waiting for the veneer to arrive, and some brass strips, but in preparation I took a crayon rubbing of the pattern to use as the basis for a template for the replacement inlays.

[Mags]

I have enjoyed more than 45 minutes, sipping a coffee, reading this thread. The care, and love in the projects is evident. Michael the projects and the repair descriptions complimented with the photographs here are the makings of your own repair book I think.

 

The writers box is something I wish was made still for us fountain pen collectors. I will have to ask the local antique stores to let me know if one comes in.

 

Rob

[my63]

Hi Skoff

Dont forget the steam that is what softens the glue.

Warm water a 1/2 inch paint brush and a bit of scrubbing then wipe off with a kitchen towel dont try sanding or scraping it will take forever.

If you get an akward pice use steam to soften it then lift it off with a scraper.

If you leave any hide glue it will react with the pva and form little lumps and you will the have to remove the pva.

Hopefully I will be able to show you haw to remove the scratches later.

[my63]

I have enjoyed more than 45 minutes, sipping a coffee, reading this thread. The care, and love in the projects is evident. Michael the projects and the repair descriptions complimented with the photographs here are the makings of your own repair book I think.

 

The writers box is something I wish was made still for us fountain pen collectors. I will have to ask the local antique stores to let me know if one comes in.

 

Rob

Welcome to our little club Mags I am glad you have nejoyed the thread so far I have hundreds of pictures of projects on flickr.

I have often wondered if there was more that I could do with the pictures of the projects i have completed so far.

For what you would be likely to pay in an antique store it would possibly be better value to commission one to your specification from me and then have it shipped to Canada.

Regards

Michael