Pelikan M800: Fine Or Medium Nib?

[ajitk]

I am considering a Pelikan M800 but am not able to make up my mind on whether to get a fine nib or medium nib.

 

In general, people seem to feel that a Pelikan fine is more like a medium on other pens. Notably, I've seen at least two comparisons with a Namiki medium.

 

Dave first purchased a medium, then exchanged it for a fine:

http://yetiwrites.blogspot.in/2011/01/pelikan-souveran-m800-nib-width.html

He includes writing samples comparing the Pelikan medium with the Pilot medium and Lamy medium.

 

Kendall feels that the fine is too fine for a large pen like the M800:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/2528-nibs-on-pelikan-fine-or-medium/page__view__findpost__p__21730

 

Ronnie agrees:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/2528-nibs-on-pelikan-fine-or-medium/page__view__findpost__p__27294

 

Writing samples for various nib widths are available from Pelikan:

http://www.pelikan.com/pulse/Pulsar/en_US.CMS.displayCMS.62726./nib-widths

and others:

http://www.swisherpens.com/Newpens/Pelikan/Nib_Chart.jpg

and

http://www.pelikanpens.co.uk/acatalog/Handwriting_Samples.html

 

The last one has writing samples of all the nib sizes on paper with 5 mm squares.

 

Despite all this data, I am still not quite able to decide. There doesn't seem to be too much difference in the writing samples. I checked my handwriting on 5 mm squared paper. My normal width lower case letters typically are 5 mm square or smaller excluding the ascenders and descenders. In other words, a little smaller than the samples in the pelikanpens.co.uk web page.

 

Also, is the medium that much smoother on the paper compared to the fine?

 

What do I make of the size of the pen vs. the nib grade issue brought up by Kendall and Ronnie? Does a bigger pen make one write bigger? Does a bigger/heavier pen encourage better handwriting?

 

Please share your thoughts. Thanks.

[smodak]

I started with extra fine Japanese nibs and when I first got a broad nib (a Sailor Naginata Togi) on a whim, I hated it. I have small handwriting and there was no place for bolder nibs. But then I got used to it. Now 85% of the nibs I own are broad, double broad, triple broad, or italic. I now love the broad nibs.

 

I have pelikan fine, medium and double broad (and oblique broad) nibs. I actually love the medium nib on the pelikan for everyday writing - they are much like broad nibs on a regular pen. Actually the medium on my Blue O Blue is even broader.

 

The Pelikans write one or even two sizes larger and very wet - means if you are used to a broad, buy a pelikan medium.

 

By the way, if you are in the USA and purchase new from an authorized dealer, chartpak will let you exchange the nib within 30 (??) days.

 

As I moved from fine and extra fine to broad and double broads, I started writing bigger and my handwriting became more legible. However, it takes time to get used to writing with a broad nib . I would not experiment such things with an expensive pen like Pelikan 800 - I would buy a cheaper broad nib pen and when I get used to it, I would buy the Pelikan. Who knows - you might love it or you might hate it - it is really for you to decide.

 

Another advantage of broad, wet nibs are beautiful shading that a good ink produces.

 

Also I have more than two copies of pelikan medium nibs on the 800 and each of them write different widths - go figure.

 

Sorry, I probably have confused you more than I answered your questions - the best way for you to decide would be to actually try one.

 

I am yet to write with a Pelikan that is not an absolutely smooth writer except for the one Pelikan m200 that got tuned by a certain famous nib meister very well regarded in this board. That is the only Pelikan I have that does not write well. Rest of them, irrespective of their nib size, are superb.

 

Your choice of ink will also determine how wet or dry your pen writes. Use a drier ink like Mb midnight blue or Pelikan 4001 to tame the flow.

Edited May 14, 2012 by smodak

[Chi Town]

Chartpak seems to be the answer for you!

[ajitk]

Smodak,

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences. You have patiently responded to many of my questions and I really appreciate it.

 

Yes, I have looked at various U.S. dealers, but I find them much more expensive than German dealers. For example, most U.S. dealers charge $375 for an M800. I can find one for $300 or less in Germany. I am finding it difficult to justify the $75-100 extra. I understand the extra difficulty and cost in having to ship the pen to Pelikan Germany to get service.

 

The Blue o blue looks extremely attractive . However, again, I am finding it difficult to justify the $100 or more price delta between the regular M800 and the blue o blue. I was under the impression that the M800 and the blue o blue are identical except for the appearance. So, I am surprised that your blue o blue writes wider. Incidentally, I heard that the blue o blue has been discontinued.

 

Few more questions for you :ltcapd: :

 

• Do you believe that your handwriting has improved because of a larger/heavier pen? Is there a correlation?
  
• Does a bigger grade nib (fine -> medium -> bold) encourage larger handwriting or is this is a function of the size/weight of the pen?
  

 

Thanks.

 

Ajit

[smodak]

  On 5/14/2012 at 2:53 PM, ajitk said:

Smodak,

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences. You have patiently responded to many of my questions and I really appreciate it.

 

Yes, I have looked at various U.S. dealers, but I find them much more expensive than German dealers. For example, most U.S. dealers charge $375 for an M800. I can find one for $300 or less in Germany. I am finding it difficult to justify the $75-100 extra. I understand the extra difficulty and cost in having to ship the pen to Pelikan Germany to get service.

 

The Blue o blue looks extremely attractive . However, again, I am finding it difficult to justify the $100 or more price delta between the regular M800 and the blue o blue. I was under the impression that the M800 and the blue o blue are identical except for the appearance. So, I am surprised that your blue o blue writes wider. Incidentally, I heard that the blue o blue has been discontinued.

 

Few more questions for you :ltcapd: :

 

• Do you believe that your handwriting has improved because of a larger/heavier pen? Is there a correlation?
• Does a bigger grade nib (fine -> medium -> bold) encourage larger handwriting or is this is a function of the size/weight of the pen?

 

Thanks.

 

Ajit

 

 

Pelikan Blue O Blue is like any other M800 with a different body. However, what I was trying to convey is that the Pelikan nib widths vary in my experience - meaning two medium nibs can have different widths. I am not sure whether this is a widely recognized phenomena but I have several medium M800s and all of them have different widths.

 

I like larger pens - they feel more comfortable in my hand. I do not think using a larger pen has chnaged (or improved) my handwriting. It just feels more comfortable to me. So, no, at least for my usage, there was no correlation between using a larger pen and improved handwriting. Also keep in mind that I used the word improvement to mean legibility. I do not have a good HW and it is generally difficult to read. Writing larger helped the situation but that was not a function of using a larger pen.

 

Again there is a limit to everything. An M1000 is as large a pen as I can comfortably use. Any larger and it is not very comfortable for me. Even M1000 feels very large for extended period of writing, M600 feels too small, M800 feels just right. There is no gurantee that you will share my observations - we are all different.

 

At least for my case, using a broader nib "forced" me to use larger fonts - that, in turn, made my HW more legible (or so I think ). It automatically did not get better. I had to try hard to write larger and it was really frustrating at times. But I finally learned to write larger. Again we are all different and I can only state what worked for me - I cannot guarantee that your experience will be same.

 

Again, my advice to you would be not to experiement on these things with an expensive pen like a M800. If I were you, I would stick to whatever nib size or equivalent (and pen size) that I am used to, if I was buying a Pelikan 600 or a Pelikan 800 for the first time.

Edited May 14, 2012 by smodak

[georges zaslavsky]

I have two old style m800, one in fine and another in medium and both write extremely well

[andyk]

Hi,

 

My writing is quite small and I found the M a bit too wide, I traded it for an F which is great and I also have an EF which I use from time to time, all nibs wrote very smoothly.

 

Andy

[Shaporama]

I went from an F to an EF Pelikan nib because I found my M1005 to be too broad and wet for my taste. Its perfect now that I have swapped nibs and switched to Pelikan ink.

[vpadgett]

  On 5/14/2012 at 5:47 PM, smodak said:

Pelikan Blue O Blue is like any other M800 with a different body. However, what I was trying to convey is that the Pelikan nib widths vary in my experience - meaning two medium nibs can have different widths. I am not sure whether this is a widely recognized phenomena but I have several medium M800s and all of them have different widths.

 

I like larger pens - they feel more comfortable in my hand. I do not think using a larger pen has chnaged (or improved) my handwriting. It just feels more comfortable to me. So, no, at least for my usage, there was no correlation between using a larger pen and improved handwriting. Also keep in mind that I used the word improvement to mean legibility. I do not have a good HW and it is generally difficult to read. Writing larger helped the situation but that was not a function of using a larger pen.

Again there is a limit to everything. An M1000 is as large a pen as I can comfortably use. Any larger and it is not very comfortable for me. Even M1000 feels very large for extended period of writing, M600 feels too small, M800 feels just right. There is no gurantee that you will share my observations - we are all different.

At least for my case, using a broader nib "forced" me to use larger fonts - that, in turn, made my HW more legible (or so I think ). It automatically did not get better. I had to try hard to write larger and it was really frustrating at times. But I finally learned to write larger. Again we are all different and I can only state what worked for me - I cannot guarantee that your experience will be same.

Again, my advice to you would be not to experiement on these things with an expensive pen like a M800. If I were you, I would stick to whatever nib size or equivalent (and pen size) that I am used to, if I was buying a Pelikan 600 or a Pelikan 800 for the first time.

Size matters --- not just M or F nib, but the pen size--

 

Could you compare the size of your m/800 or m/600 to the 1930s through 1960s Pelikan m/100 or m/100N or m/140 or m/400?

 

I ask because I was going to buy a new production m/400 or m/800 but have instead ordered from Rick Propas, vintage renovated m/140 and m/400, and am wondering how they compare in size to the newer Pelikan production.

 

Asking because they look small-- the Ahab Noodler is the only pen I have that feels large enough ...

Edited May 15, 2012 by vpadgett

[smodak]

  On 5/15/2012 at 2:50 AM, vpadgett said:

  On 5/14/2012 at 5:47 PM, smodak said:

Pelikan Blue O Blue is like any other M800 with a different body. However, what I was trying to convey is that the Pelikan nib widths vary in my experience - meaning two medium nibs can have different widths. I am not sure whether this is a widely recognized phenomena but I have several medium M800s and all of them have different widths.

 

I like larger pens - they feel more comfortable in my hand. I do not think using a larger pen has chnaged (or improved) my handwriting. It just feels more comfortable to me. So, no, at least for my usage, there was no correlation between using a larger pen and improved handwriting. Also keep in mind that I used the word improvement to mean legibility. I do not have a good HW and it is generally difficult to read. Writing larger helped the situation but that was not a function of using a larger pen.

Again there is a limit to everything. An M1000 is as large a pen as I can comfortably use. Any larger and it is not very comfortable for me. Even M1000 feels very large for extended period of writing, M600 feels too small, M800 feels just right. There is no gurantee that you will share my observations - we are all different.

At least for my case, using a broader nib "forced" me to use larger fonts - that, in turn, made my HW more legible (or so I think ). It automatically did not get better. I had to try hard to write larger and it was really frustrating at times. But I finally learned to write larger. Again we are all different and I can only state what worked for me - I cannot guarantee that your experience will be same.

Again, my advice to you would be not to experiement on these things with an expensive pen like a M800. If I were you, I would stick to whatever nib size or equivalent (and pen size) that I am used to, if I was buying a Pelikan 600 or a Pelikan 800 for the first time.

Size matters --- not just M or F nib, but the pen size--

 

Could you compare the size of your m/800 or m/600 to the 1930s through 1960s Pelikan m/100 or m/100N or m/140 or m/400?

 

I ask because I was going to buy a new production m/400 or m/800 but have instead ordered from Rick Propas, vintage renovated m/140 and m/400, and am wondering how they compare in size to the newer Pelikan production.

 

Asking because they look small-- the Ahab Noodler is the only pen I have that feels large enough ...

 

Sorry, I do not have access to Pelikans made between 1930s through 1960s - I only have modern and semi modern Pelikans.

[Butler51]

I have three Pelikan 800s: Two old style, and one newer. The Pelikan fine nib suits my handwriting style. I specified fine nibs in each of my 800s because it seems to me that the Pelikan 800 medium nib (I own two of the old style medium nibs) lays out a broad line.

[Oregon Duck]

You may eventually find that you try one and decide to buy another nib unit to alternate. The nib units on these pens unscrew very easily (with tissue paper and a little care, you can even swap out with ink in the body -- just make sure the nib is pointed skyward when you start unscrewing, have a stable cup handy to stand the open, inked pen, and have a cup of water nearby where you can dunk the inked nib. After that, screw-in the new nib and go.) Nib units go for ~ $190 or so. If that's an option for you, I'd suggest starting with a fine, with a mind that maybe you'd try a broad eventually. Generally speaking, I like using broad nibs for signatures, and finer nibs for editing and margin notes.

 

As for size.... You might have expected that there is some variance out there. Sometimes, two nibs, made by the same company and the same width, will write and feel a little differently. I have a broad M800 nib that writes a bit on the fat medium side. For a twist, it's an extra-fine sort-of-italic upside down (which I occasionally use for margin notes, when a need a little smaller lines). I also purchased an "Italifine" M800 nib as an alternate from Richard Binder (richardspens.com -- no affiliation), which is a true Italic right-side up, and a rounded fine point (really more a medium) upside down.

 

Lastly -- much of line width varies with the type of paper you write on. High-quality paper will not soak up as much ink, and your nibs (whatever the width is on the pen you're using) will be narrower. Where I work, we used recycled 20-lb copy paper which soaks up ink a bit like newsprint -- and even fine points appear wider on that paper. The ink you use is also a factor -- some inks will write a bit "wetter" than others. For me, ink choice ultimately comes down to a matter of color and feel on the paper I'm using, but some will use Pelikan inks for a bit of a "drier" writing ink.

 

Bottom line -- this is a terrific pen, the nibs are easy to change, and if you're flexibile and open-minded enough, you will enjoy whatever nib you eventually choose. Just relax and take the plunge....

[PatientType]

I agree with pretty much everything smodak wrote. My experience has parallelled his and I share his opinions on the M800s. We only differ on the M1000s. I have both pens. I don't find the M1000 overly large for regular use and I love that pen's more springy nib.

 

On the M800s, I bought one with a medium nib. It seemed to spew ink like a fire hose. My "e"s were just ink blobs. Year of writing with ball points had caused my hand writing to become small and angular. I exchanged the nib for a fine which, at the time, suited me well.

 

As the months passed writing with fountain pens seemed to open up my writing and make it more flowing. I started to use various colors of ink. When you write with a broader nib, the ink color is more apparent and dramatic. I began experimenting again with medium and broad nibs.

 

Now, the majority of my pens have a broad nib. I have Pelikan M800s with fine, medium, and broad nibs as well as one with a double-broad, custom ground cursive italic. If I'm just writing up notes, to do lists, shopping lists, or something else in which I don't have an esthetic investment, I'll be writing fast, in smaller script, and using a fine or medium nib. When I'm writing letters, cards, doing a lot of signing, I will invariably use a pen with a broad or the cursive italic nib.

 

All the nibs on my modern Pelikans have been smooth, with good ink flow, and trouble-free.

[alexander_k]

For years I've used primarily an M600 with a fine nib and an M800 with a medium nib, both from the 1980s. Both were juicy, reliable writers. The M600 was rather springy as well. It was through these two pens that I realized that my note-taking on smaller paper sizes (A6 and sometimes A5) asked for a fine nib, while writing on larger sheets (A4) was best done with a medium or broad nib. My handwriting changes accordingly but not much - it's primarily a response to the available real estate, as people in the smartphone business would say. So, while I agree with the idea that having more than one nib units for a Pelikan makes sense, I prefer having more than one pens, each with a different nib, available at any moment.

 

As for the comparison with Japanese fine, I have a few fine-nibbed Platinum, Sailor and Pilot pens (mostly big-capped ones), and while I like their sharpness and responsiveness, they're used for more relaxed writing. My pens-on-the-go nowadays are VPs with medium nibs (very similar to the fine on the old M600 I've sold some time ago).

[Abhorson]

I use the M1000 so maybe take this with a grain of salt. I have an M nib, and I'm kind of on the fence with it. I write with a lot of flourish, and because the 1000 nibs have a lot of give, the M is just over the border of unusable as an every circumstance pen. For worksheets and forms, or lined paper, it's hard to use. Extremely hard. I sampled a fine in a store the other day, and it has instilled quite a few doubts in me. So, I'd say it depends on the way you right. The M WILL be smoother, though, noticeably.

[TDL]

I have three Pelikan M800 size pens (The Blue O'Blue, M900 Toledo and the M805), all with fine nibs. As mentioned above, the nibs do vary in width even though all are freely interchangeable between pens. The fine nib allows me to write extensive notes all day into a Midori journal, which has quite narrow pages.

[TDL]

  On 5/14/2012 at 2:53 PM, ajitk said:

Smodak,

 

 

 

Yes, I have looked at various U.S. dealers, but I find them much more expensive than German dealers. For example, most U.S. dealers charge $375 for an M800. I can find one for $300 or less in Germany. I am finding it difficult to justify the $75-100 extra. I understand the extra difficulty and cost in having to ship the pen to Pelikan Germany to get service.

 

The Blue o blue looks extremely attractive . However, again, I am finding it difficult to justify the $100 or more price delta between the regular M800 and the blue o blue. I was under the impression that the M800 and the blue o blue are identical except for the appearance. So, I am surprised that your blue o blue writes wider. Incidentally, I heard that the blue o blue has been discontinued.

 

 

1 - Don't forget that the US Customs service may charge import duties or sales tax on imports from Germany.

 

2 - The Blue O'Blue was a special edition produced for just a short period of time. You may find a few dealers still with stock to sell, but there will not be many as it is now out of production.

[Lazarus Long]

I have a M805, which I originally bought with an EF nib. The EF was very smooth (no complaints there), but very dry. Lines that looked dark and intense when using the same ink in other pens looked a bit faint/light in the EF.

 

So I bought an F from Richard Binder. There was a shipping snafu (which was immediately corrected, no hassles) and I received an M. It was VERY wet and broad. It was a bit much - ink soaked through most of my papers.

 

I sent it back and got the F. It is still wet and a bit broad compared to the F in my 215, but I like it. There is a much bigger difference between the EF and F than there is going from F to M.

[Mags]

Pelikan is a wet writer. Medium is a good size. I am a broad nib and music nib user now.

[JordanLH]

Thanks. I have a m800 with an EF on the way. I think I'm going to get a F from Richard too to test them out, and then sell the extra nib. I'm also tempted to get a double broad as well. Never written with anything like that, but seems like it would be fun.