Method From Ec Mills' Modern Business Penmanship

February 6, 2015

TM

There are guideline sheets with angled lines on them, to help you write at a particular angle. The Iampeth site might have some of them.

I think the French ruled sheets only have a bunch of horizontal lines, nothing to help with the angle that you write at.

If you have to turn the paper horizontal, I think you have your elbow out too far to the right. Try pulling your elbow in closer to your body. I realize that the chair/table height is a factor here. If the table is too high, relative to the chair, it forces you to move your arm out to the right.

February 6, 2015

Seyes with slant.pdf

Modified Seyes with slant.pdf

Here are two templates I have. The slant lines are at 52 degrees. The Modified Seyes does not have the vertical lines, and has the baselines every five lines (instead of four); if you are writing with x-height of one line, ascenders up three lines, and descenders down two lines, then the Modified ensures that there are no collisions between the ascenders of one line with the descenders of the previous line.

Let me know if you find these useful, or if you need any refinements.

DB

February 6, 2015

The problem, I suspect, is that you are over-controlling the process, trying to draw a line (circle, oval, etc.) almost one atom at a time, moment to moment, critiquing each and every atom rather than making a grand gesture and critiquing only the result. As each atom represents a potential course adjustment, the result is almost assured to be uneven and unsatisfactory.

I have this exact problem! I'll try the noted recommendations.

February 7, 2015

TM
There are guideline sheets with angled lines on them, to help you write at a particular angle. The Iampeth site might have some of them.
I think the French ruled sheets only have a bunch of horizontal lines, nothing to help with the angle that you write at.

If you have to turn the paper horizontal, I think you have your elbow out too far to the right. Try pulling your elbow in closer to your body. I realize that the chair/table height is a factor here. If the table is too high, relative to the chair, it forces you to move your arm out to the right.

Perfect help! Thank you ac12!

I found the guide sheets at Iampeth as you suggested. I will print these off, I am sure they will prove very helpful!

Excellent point about my elbow! I think I naturally tend to have it too far to the right when I write rapidly. I move my arm a lot when I am writing and I hate feeling cramped. My arm and writing tend to have more sweeping flourishes so I like to have room for that. Maybe it's my little rebellion against those itty-bitty desks they shoved us in at school, lol

Where should the writing surface be in comparison to the height of the body, arm, shoulder, etc.? From what you said I think perhaps my desk might be just slightly too high.

Also, isn't it ideal to write on a slightly slanted surface in general and not only for calligraphy?

February 7, 2015

Seyes with slant.pdf

Modified Seyes with slant.pdf

Here are two templates I have. The slant lines are at 52 degrees. The Modified Seyes does not have the vertical lines, and has the baselines every five lines (instead of four); if you are writing with x-height of one line, ascenders up three lines, and descenders down two lines, then the Modified ensures that there are no collisions between the ascenders of one line with the descenders of the previous line.

Let me know if you find these useful, or if you need any refinements.

DB

Oh awesome thank you very much! I will try these out! They look great!

February 7, 2015

Excellent point about my elbow! I think I naturally tend to have it too far to the right when I write rapidly. I move my arm a lot when I am writing and I hate feeling cramped. My arm and writing tend to have more sweeping flourishes so I like to have room for that. Maybe it's my little rebellion against those itty-bitty desks they shoved us in at school, lol

Where should the writing surface be in comparison to the height of the body, arm, shoulder, etc.? From what you said I think perhaps my desk might be just slightly too high.

Also, isn't it ideal to write on a slightly slanted surface in general and not only for calligraphy?

Iampeth might have something about position.

I think you need to experiment with the desk vs. chair height. That is why an adjustable chair is good to have.

I would start by sitting down, then putting your arm next to your body, bend the elbow 90 degrees, so your forearm is level.

The bottom of the forearm is what I would have as the initial desk height.

This would let you move your arm.

Then adjust from there, to fine tune the level.

The level of the writing surface is personal.

Some prefer a flat level surface, others like some incline, and again the amount of incline is personal.

The incline lets you see the farther stuff easier, without bending over so much. But don't incline too much then you are really writing uphill.

February 8, 2015

This is all super helpful. Thank you very much!

After following your recommendations I have come to the conclusion that my desk is indeed slightly too high, and my chair is not adjustable. I practiced adding a pillow to sit on to just give a tiny bit more height and it actually worked. I felt that my arm was able to move more naturally and I did notice my elbow was a little more in then usual. So I think this helps, at least as a temporary solution.

I find if I am writing one concentrated project for an extended amount of time, I tend to prefer an inclined surface. If I am just playing with my pens and inks, or writing a note or short letter, the flat surface is fine. But when I go into my long 2+ hour writing sessions I need a slightly elevated surface.

At this time I use an old photo alum I have which is smooth, naturally inclined and hard enough to write on. I make sure to use lots of cheap papers as buffers so no accidents happen on the album. (Although it would be okay if a little ink got on it, I am not too worried about this particular one, hence why I feel okay using it.)

Eventually I would like to have a portable wooden writing desk that I could use on my usual desk to offer that inclined surface. I wonder where I could find one though?

February 8, 2015

TM

The problem with those portable writing desk is they add height. So put it on a table and now the writing surface is maybe 4 inches higher than the table.

Go to an art store like Michaels, and get a drawing board. Then you can incline it, w/o worrying about messing up your album.

BTW, my kitchen table and chair are also height mismatched, so the table height is a couple inches too high for good arm writing.

February 9, 2015

Oh excellent points! Thank you ac12 you have been so incredibly helpful!

I will look for a drawing board next time I go to Hobby Lobby (that store is addicting I tell you! lol)

My kitchen table is really not conducive to writing either. I prefer my desk and I think a higher chair would be just right for it.

Still, I am so very grateful for my desk, it is lovely and sturdy at the same time. Lots of room for all my pens, papers, inks, etc.

February 11, 2015

I spent about 4 hours today practicing my penmanship by following the exercises in Business Penmanship.

I have always struggled with the angles and never was able to get that little loop correct.

Today it hit me. Something that has changed the way I write forever.

I always thought of the letters as needing to stand up as straight as possible on top of the line. With printing this is more so true. Especially teaching to kindergartners. Straight lines, is the mantra. (My son is in kindergarten so this is a daily practice for us!)

My daughter is in third grade and is learning cursive and I want to be able to help create healthy writing habits not simply for the grade, but more so that she would have good penmanship all her life.

Since I have been teaching my children penmanship, and a desire has grown in me to improve my own penmanship.

So I ordered the Spencerian Penmanship books and in the meantime started practicing with SC Mills book which I read online.

So, today I was practicing. It was on plate 14 I was writing moon. (Yes my name! Only lower case, lol)

I wrote it over and over for 4 pages. About half way through the second page, it hit me.

The letters are lying down on the line diagonally. They aren't straight and they aren't standing. They are laying down.

This transformed the entire way I saw the letters and the way I write now. I just remind myself, the letters are laying down sideways on the line. And boom! There is beautiful uniform angles!!!

I don't know if this is the correct way of thinking. But it has helped me immensely in forming my letters, creating those little loops, and perfecting that uniform angle.

I still have much practice needed. But I feel like I have broken through a barrier and now it is all so much more positive, I feel like I can do this! I can really improve my penmanship and make it something beautiful.

I just had to share my happiness and my little revelation!

Oh also, in response to my desk height. I have these two boards on either side of desk, sort of like cutting boards, they slide out and can slide back in place hidden. They are just the right height for me to write. That is where I practiced all day today. It helped tremendously!

February 11, 2015

I agree Tessy, as someone who has recently gone thru the E.C. Mills book on Iampeth myself, thats exactly what I noticed. To me it seems that the beauty of the script is that the letters are both slanted forward and low, but at the same time rounded and lively. Good luck on your studies!

February 11, 2015

Thank you for sharing your thoughts cellmatrix! I am glad I don't sound too abnormally crazy, lol

I am waiting for the Spencerian copybooks and theory book to arrive from Amazon, but still practicing the business penmanship is helping me prepare for those.

Also, I purchased a Pilot Penmanship pen and it is amazing! I never thought I'd like a fine nib, always preferring 1.1 or 1.5 stubs. But you have to have something thin and light for this type of writing. And I am blown away by how much I am enjoying the Penmanship! I wonder what pens and nibs most people use for this type of writing....hmmm....I must go read around the forum to get some idea.