A Wax Seal Overview And Comparison

[kiavonne]

(First Note: This review is basically for Red Comma seals, but I have done a comparison with another seal from another company. That company will remain unnamed for this comparison. They are well known, and well liked. They specialize, and the work they do within that specialization is excellent. A review of their product within their specialization is for another day. This review is outside of their specialization, and the seal is still a good seal, regardless. Please keep this in mind and please PM me if you must know the company's name. Thank you.)

 

 

 

Recently, I've been wanting to increase my horde of wax seals. Now, most anyone who has followed my collection knows that I have a very deep appreciation of Dexter seals. Dexter is the Rolls Royce of wax seals, no doubt whatsoever in my mind, and I currently have three, four if you count my seal pendent. However, the seals I'd been contemplating recently are simple seals (must understand I've been spoiled by Dexter and "simple" is a relative term here), and I decided that "inexpensive" 2D seals would more than suit their intended purposes. So, I decided to look at other companies whose seals are 2D specific.

 

There were plenty of places I could go for these seals, and prices ranged from around $50 "low" end to $150 "high" end. I decided to stick locally (North America). The art for the seal I was looking at initially was a black and white depiction of Odin upon his horse Sleipnir, carrying his spear Gungnir into war, with a raven tagging along and all bordered by the Celtic knot version of the roots of Yggdrasil. "Simple," right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know...

 

Anyway, the first company I selected to attempt this artwork for a seal required choosing the seal size and complexity and then also payment in advance (though this could be canceled, I understand). I did have sense enough to choose big and complex and expensive (1-1/8 inch round brass coin - $135), but when a company says line drawings only and no "negative" (white in black), they mean it. The artwork was refused.

 

While I stewed on that for the moment, I decided to put the same request up to RedComma, which is not a North American company but it has come up in recent threads as one to try. I selected my choice of seal - 2.8cm vintage round - from their website (not the 'bay, where they also sell seals), and posted on their Q&A forum as directed for approval (no payment until approved). Well, most of the forum is in Korean, but I got my request posted finally. Not unexpected, however, was a negative response on the Odin artwork. Again, much too complex.

 

So, more contemplation. I finally got it into my head the "simple" part of the equation. But, what part of Odin is simple? Ok, the Borromean Valknut. That should do it. But which company? Hm, I had a prepayment in to one, but the Valknut was not enough to warrant that payment, in my mind. So, Red Comma was the decision for the Valknut. But, still, that prepayment... I didn't really want to cancel and I did want to try a seal from this company. So... I went looking for another, but more "fun" artwork. I found this crazy, but hopefully acceptable clip art cat. Then, I decided to submit the cat to both companies, just to see if it would be accepted and get a comparison of the two.

 

All artwork was accepted. The Valknut would be only from Red Comma, but the cat from both companies. I added a first name to the Red Comma cat, simply because I could and it wouldn't reflect on price. So, the Valknut on an "antique square" seal, and the cat on the 2.8cm vintage round from Red Comma totaled under $110 and included shipping. The $135 stood for the cat from the other company, including shipping. Three seals total.

 

Here is what came of it all.

 

So, let's start with packaging. The package box I received from Red Comma took about 10 business days to receive after the completion of the seals. The box was battered, and looked like one end had been opened. Both seals were present, though. Nothing amiss. There were two seals and both packaged inside the box differently. The first was inside another small, gold toned box with a gold ribbon and a wax seal applied using the seal itself, which was buried in the paper raffia inside. The second seal was wrapped inside a pigskin leather wrap. Some nice touches, it kept the unveiling interesting. Although I photographed the other company's seal with bubblewrap, it really did not come wrapped. It was actually loose inside a small cardboard pillow box which was inserted into a padded "bubble" envelope. No special touches there at all, and I was frankly surprised at the lack of wrapping or presentation. So, my photos actually show more warp than what was there for the third seal. Also note, most of these photos were without the flash, as the side lamp lighting worked better to show what detail I get better than with the flash.

 

Three presentations, side by side:

 

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/01.jpg

 

 

 

Unwrapping the Valknut seal from Red Comma:

 

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/02.jpg

 

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/03.jpg

 

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/04.jpg

 

 

 

And the Valknut used with Atelier Gargoyle red wax (dark with soot from the end of the stick):

 

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/05.jpg

 

 

 

Unwrapping the Red Comma cat:

 

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/06.jpg

 

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/07.jpg

 

 

 

And the Red Comma cat used with J.Herbin "traditional" red wax (also dark with soot from the end of the stick):

 

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/08.jpg

 

 

 

The seals from Red Comma aren't too shabby at all, and that's decent praise coming from someone like me who likes the Rolls Royce though my budget definitely screams Pinto these days. :embarrassed_smile:

 

So, on to "unwrapping" the not really wrapped third seal (gotta have some presentation):

 

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/09.jpg

 

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/10.jpg

 

 

 

And the second cat seal used again with J.Herbin "traditional" red wax:

 

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/11.jpg

 

 

 

Not a very good shot, admittedly, but under my current conditions, the best to be had at the moment. But now, it is on to a couple of side by side comparisons. All three seals are brass headed coins with plain wooden handles, and measure about 4 inches or so in height. The square Valknut seal is a bit smaller for the brass head. The Red Comma seals have been "antiqued" for the finish, whereas the other seal is a plain and more or less polished brass. The Red Comma handles are permanently affixed to their brass heads, but the other seal handle readily unscrews from its coin, which I am assuming allows the handle to be used with the company's other interchangeable design coins.

 

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/12.jpg

 

 

 

Here are a couple of shots showing the three seals lined up with each other to show their engravings - pretty much the same shot with slightly different angle and lighting:

 

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/13.jpg

 

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/14.jpg

 

 

 

However, the real differences in the seals really show through on a side by side comparison of the two cat seals. The Red Comma seal is definitely more even and "polished," whereas the other company's seal shows the engraving marks and uneven cuts in the brass. Without looking at them up close like this, one might not be able to really see the differences, but this is me, and I noticed. (The other company did try to put the pupils in the cat's eyes, though, when both companies thought this was not a doable thing, so I am happy with the attempt.)

 

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/16.jpg

 

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/15.jpg

 

 

 

Now, both seals make decent impressions. Red Comma makes a much more decent impression. Here are the impressions again, along with a side by side. I'm not that good at photos of wax impressions, but here they are.

 

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/08.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/11.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/kiavonne/Wax%20Seals/My%20Other%20Seals/17.jpg

 

 

 

For this project, I have to conclude that Red Comma did an excellent job getting my simple seals done for a good price. I can't complain.

 

 

This was a review for Red Comma.

[jjlax10]

The Red Comma definitely looks better made. Could you explain a little more about how they approve the artwork?

[kiavonne]

  On 2/1/2012 at 8:12 PM, jjlax10 said:

Could you explain a little more about how they approve the artwork?

 

 

This is the part that can be a little confusing at first.

 

After you have decided what type of custom seal you want, let's say the "antique square" for instance, click on their customer service link at the top of the page. It brings up another page of contact information. Click on the "address" link for the web address. This part initially took me aback for a moment because the web address seemed almost mocking and made me wonder whether it was legit. You could also just use this link: www.hellomyfriendredcommahahaha.com (See what I mean?)

 

Click on "Help Desk" in the banner menu, and then click on "Q&A." It all looks like a Korean forum at this point. Scroll down to the bottom, and click on the button labeled "Write."

 

Use any author name for yourself you desire, and the next box is for a password of your choosing that allows only you to see the message. The subject should be your request, such as "Custom Antique Square Wax Seal Request" or something similar.

 

Write your request in the body describing what you want, and then upload a copy of your artwork with the "Attach" button beneath. Then hit the "Submit" button.

 

After that, you check back on the Q&A page periodically over the next day or two for a reply (indicated by a number next to your original posting). The reply tells you whether your artwork or request has been accepted. If they accept the work, reply and then go back to the custom seal page on the main site and order the seal at that point. Check the forum page again, and they will confirm the sale and give you directions to confirm their artwork for you with a password to another entry on the "Confirm custom seal design" page under "Help Desk" instead of the Q&A page. Once you confirm the design, they produce the seal.

 

It seemed rather complicated or messy, but it did get the job done and they actually responded and produced the seals rather quickly. The longest wait was the one for shipping.

[Anne-Sophie]

You -must- show us your seals collection, it is too much of a temptation.

[Octo]

Thanks for this excellent review and comparison. I checked the Red comma website and liked what I saw.

 

It would be nice to see your collection of seals. but a lot of work for you.

[kiavonne]

  On 2/2/2012 at 10:03 PM, Anne-Sophie said:

You -must- show us your seals collection, it is too much of a temptation.

 

  On 2/3/2012 at 7:06 AM, Octo said:

It would be nice to see your collection of seals. but a lot of work for you.

 

 

Well, there are plenty of pictures around in various threads of my various seals. I started a thread in the Photography forum with most of my seals, with hopes that others will join in with their photos, and there are a few threads showing my Dexter seals around, but you can also go here to my photobucket account to see just about everything I have.

 

I can't wait to see your seals!

 

K

Edited February 3, 2012 by kiavonne

[Pepin]

I love your adventure in finding the holy grail among seals.

 

I like the red comma one too.

[jjlax10]

Order placed last night. I will say that although the way you get your art approved is somewhat unconventional, it actually works easier than I thought. Plus the price is pretty good compared to other similar companies and I think it will come out better.

[kiavonne]

  On 2/17/2012 at 4:31 PM, jjlax10 said:

Order placed last night. I will say that although the way you get your art approved is somewhat unconventional, it actually works easier than I thought. Plus the price is pretty good compared to other similar companies and I think it will come out better.

 

 

Cool! Please be sure to share it with us when you receive it!

[requiescat]

Oh, this is evil. I'd already been thinking about wax seals this week. I folded and dropped them an inquiry--I think the design I selected is simple enough to do, but I don't have a good sense for these things so I'll find out.

[French]

I agree, absolutely evil. I have been considering a wax seal for quite some time, but didn't want to go with a simple cursive letter of my last name, I wanted a family crest. I found one and submitted the artwork to red comma. Hopefully they will be able to do it, if not, then I will have to look elsewhere.

 

 

 

French

[Fabienne]

It looks like Red Comma uses a more modern method of making the seal. It is very uniform and smooth and quite detailed. The other company seals look more like there is a lot of hand crafting to it and so it ends up not looking so uniform when impressed. So, the outline of the cat and the spiral is a bit deeper than the interior of the image and there is a "border" around the image when you impress it. I also think that is why Red Comma is cheaper, they have less hand work in it all and rely more on the computer/laser cutting for this. At least that is what this old manufacturing person suspects.

[jjlax10]

I was told that Red Comma uses some sort of chemical treatment on the metal of the die. My understanding is also that some of the companies use a pneumatic arm (its some term like that) which I suspect makes more grooves as the blade or die turn.

[professionaldilettante]

  On 3/8/2012 at 4:07 PM, Fabienne said:

It looks like Red Comma uses a more modern method of making the seal. It is very uniform and smooth and quite detailed. The other company seals look more like there is a lot of hand crafting to it and so it ends up not looking so uniform when impressed. So, the outline of the cat and the spiral is a bit deeper than the interior of the image and there is a "border" around the image when you impress it. I also think that is why Red Comma is cheaper, they have less hand work in it all and rely more on the computer/laser cutting for this. At least that is what this old manufacturing person suspects.

Dunno. I would thing that anything can be done with hand tooling. I suspect that both are made by machine, as the bit was too big to carve the detail of the eyes. Just that there were higher tolerances and finishing steps for the Comma stamp. I really am tempted to get one from them now.

[French]

Yesterday I broke and ordered a family crest seal from http://www.customwaxnseals.com

When it arrives, I will post a review. I can say the ordering process was straightforward and quick, since this was a stock design, the cost was quite reasonable.

French

[Fabienne]

Yea, I can see the machining explanation with the bit being too big for the eye. The outline of the cat was carved first and then "filled in". But the outline is pretty prominent and so I think the machinery would be more old fashioned. We used to do an acid or an electrochemical machine job on jet engine parts which would leave no tool marks. The latter, ECM, had the positive impression made out of brass and a current was shot through salt water into the part to be machined. You could get very accurate impressions that way. There was also acid etch, but that would not make terribly deep impressions and would take a long time. I think that a laser drill is more like it, an inexpensive way to make an impression quickly without a lot of expensive die making. But this is just the manufacturing nerd in me.

[Octo]

After reading this review, I decided to order a seal from Red Comma. By the time I settled on a design, the name had changed to Mustom.com.

 

The longest part of the process was my deciding on the design to order. I finally settled (with permission) on the one created by my sister for the soundboard "rose" of the harpsichord we built together. It has lots of sentimental value. I submitted a photograph of a hand-drawn illustration. It was approved with the suggestion that, because of the number of elements in the pattern, I move up to the square seal or the 2.8 cm round one. I chose the round.

 

The seal arrived today. It is all I hoped for, and more.

 

Since I now have the design digitized, I plan to make a few correspondence cards and fold-over cards using it to correlate with the wax seal.

[melissa59]

Octo, I'd love to see a wax image of your seal. I hope to buy a seal from Mustom.com one of these days. Maybe I'll order one next year for my birthday. :-)

 

Somewhere, I have (or at least had) a cheapie pre-made seal that I bought in the late 1970s or early 1980s. I recently found my last wax candle in a desk drawer but could not find the seal anywhere. I just tried using an old thrift store cuff link, one with an indented image. Not the best detail, but it worked.

[Octo]

Melissa, impressions were snailed to you yesterday. Proficiency pending!

[melissa59]

Awesome! I looking forward to seeing it.