Gold Nibs Vs. Steel Nibs

[jslallar]

Once and for all,

My smoothest nibs (from a collection of over 80, and many many more previously owned):

Cross Century classic steel B, with gold coat

MB 149 18K OB,

MB 146 BB, and

Pelikan M200 Steel BB.

 

And although I am not a vintage guy, but the flexiest I have is Parker Sonnet Stub steel, which bends as much as any gold nib I have seen on videos, albeit the tine do not separate as much and the line width only doubles, but it is a 1.2 mm stub to begin with.

[Brian C]

A question for any metallurgists out there regarding this topic: wouldn't the softer (e.g., 18K, 21K), noble metal nibs be less prone to ringing than steel nibs, and thus provide more "pleasant" (damped) feedback?" Mightn't this account for the preference stated by some?

 

A separate observation: my 18K nails are considerably less prone to nib misalignment than my steel and 14K nibs, the 14K nibs requiring the most tweaking. Of course, I don't try to flex the 18K nibs.

 

I find just the opposite. Any 18k nibs I have had seemed to need to be tweaked alot, alot more than the steal nibs.

[Mickey]

A question for any metallurgists out there regarding this topic: wouldn't the softer (e.g., 18K, 21K), noble metal nibs be less prone to ringing than steel nibs, and thus provide more "pleasant" (damped) feedback?" Mightn't this account for the preference stated by some?

 

A separate observation: my 18K nails are considerably less prone to nib misalignment than my steel and 14K nibs, the 14K nibs requiring the most tweaking. Of course, I don't try to flex the 18K nibs.

 

I find just the opposite. Any 18k nibs I have had seemed to need to be tweaked alot, alot more than the steal nibs.

 

In future, then, I would suggest you not buy your 18K nibs, but shoplift them. Much less tweaking required. (Imagine a smiley)

Edited January 31, 2012 by Mickey

[79spitfire]

Stealing nibs? What's this forum coming to????

 

*runs off and hides his 18K Pilot VPs*

[haziz]

Better made nibs write better than poorly made nibs.

 

+2. Totally agree. Some of my absolute best writers have steel nibs while some pens I hate have gold nibs. Today I had in my shirt pocket the following 4 pens; a Pelikan M150 steel broad (absolutely superb), Pelikan Pelikano 'A' nib (steel, another superb writer) and a Pelikan M405 (gold) and is the least smooth of the 3, partly because it is a fine nib, but I do have smoother Pelikan fine nibs including many steel fine nibs. The fourth pen is a Pilot Gel pen in case somebody asks to borrow a pen.

[Lalique]

Hello fellow fountain pen addicts!

 

So I've been at this hobby for a little better than a year, and I find that I'm still learning a lot. I did a search of the forum, but I guess I still haven't mastered the art of using the search tool, becaus eI didn't really find waht I was loooking for.

 

Here's my question: I have to know once and for all, do you think that gold nibs actually write better than steel nibs? Or is it all just for show?

 

If you've tried lots of both types, what's your take?

 

Thanks!

 

Aloha again, tricnomistal:

 

Good steel nibs have a coating on them such as rhodium to make them smooth writers, though some gold nib pens are coated with rhodium too. Pure gold nibs do not require a coating to write smoothly. Pure steel nibs are susceptible to corrosion unless they are alloyed. Gold nibs do not corrode. Gold nibs are not given to expansion and contraction due to differences in temperature the way thin, untreated steel nibs are. There is the pen quality factor to consider. Workmanship and pen engineering may be expected to be better in pens with gold nibs as an expression of quality by the product manufacturer. For the long term pen owner, barring accidental damage to the nib, a gold nib pen will outlast a steel nib pen retaining its' functionality longer. Should you choose a gold nib pen, it is better to purchase a pen with a 14 K gold nib rather than one in 18 K gold for the reason that, should you ever want to have the nib ground by a nib meister to produce a different writing effect or to have the nib restored, it's not able to be done with an 18 K nib because it's too soft a nib with which to work. Montblanc, for example, would not consider putting anything other than a gold or platinum or similar nib on their pens because their object is to produce quality pens and to project that quality to the consumer in every respect. The value of the gold in a gold nib, even at today's cost of gold, is probably around $15.00.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Lalique

[mbradley]

"Should you choose a gold nib pen, it is better to purchase a pen with a 14 K gold nib rather than one in 18 K gold for the reason that, should you ever want to have the nib ground by a nib meister to produce a different writing effect or to have the nib restored, it's not able to be done with an 18 K nib because it's too soft a nib with which to work. Montblanc, for example, would not consider putting anything other than a gold or platinum or similar nib on their pens because their object is to produce quality pens and to project that quality to the consumer in every respect. The value of the gold in a gold nib, even at today's cost of gold, is probably around $15.00."

 

I don't think there should be any problems re-tipping or grinding an 18K nib. I believe Nibmeisters are less enthused about customizing an 18k gold nib to add flex. When buying a pen offered in 14k or 18k gold, I would buy the 14k nib in case I may want to add flex at a later date.

Michael

[Lalique]

"Should you choose a gold nib pen, it is better to purchase a pen with a 14 K gold nib rather than one in 18 K gold for the reason that, should you ever want to have the nib ground by a nib meister to produce a different writing effect or to have the nib restored, it's not able to be done with an 18 K nib because it's too soft a nib with which to work. Montblanc, for example, would not consider putting anything other than a gold or platinum or similar nib on their pens because their object is to produce quality pens and to project that quality to the consumer in every respect. The value of the gold in a gold nib, even at today's cost of gold, is probably around $15.00."

 

I don't think there should be any problems re-tipping or grinding an 18K nib. I believe Nibmeisters are less enthused about customizing an 18k gold nib to add flex. When buying a pen offered in 14k or 18k gold, I would buy the 14k nib in case I may want to add flex at a later date.

 

Michael

 

Aloha, Michael:

 

Yes, Michael. You are correct. Thank you for catching that : ). The issue of adding flex is what I had in mind when I said, in part, "produce a different writing effect". Retipping or grinding an 18 K nib is not an issue.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Lalique

[lovemy51]

oh no, not another one of these threads!!! ok, here is my answer... again: Gold!

[Bo Bo Olson]

Who knows how many nice pens with great steel nibs landed in the trash, because the ignorant inheritor decided it was nothing but a cheap pen, because if it was any good, it would have a gold nib.

 

Vintage steel nibs are though making a big comeback, as the idiots take good gold nibs off of good pens for the $0.87 gold nib.

[richardandtracy]

I have a number of steel & gold nib pens.

Generally the gold nibs are on expensive pens and are generally better than the steel nibs on cheaper pens. However, there are serious exceptions - all of which are modern pens.

 

Modern Pens:

My most expensive pen, with a 14k nib, has caused me most grief. The nib is nice & soft, but it is a long way off being acceptable, let-alone a good writer.

My next most expensive pen (half the price of the most expensive) has an 18k nib I needed to work on to get it to write nicely.

My third most expensive pen has an 18k nib and wrote fairly well from new (the feed is a problem, not the nib).

On my cheaper Chinese pens, the steel nibbed ones can be made very good with a bit of micromesh, but often don't start that way.

The only gold nibbed Chinese pen I have is a nice semi-flex 14k nib and is actually rather good - especially as the whole pen was not much more expensive than a steel replacement Sonnet nib.

 

Less Modern Pens

My favourite nib is gold, in a P61. The pen didn't cost me a lot, but was originally quite expensive.

When it comes to Parker 51's, there is no appreciable difference between the gold nibbed & steel (octanium) nibbed ones.

 

Misc:

Up there in writing quality and running the P61 pretty close, are JoWo steel nibs supplied by Oxonian for custom pen making. Not expensive, but very, very good.

 

Some way behind those come the rest of my nibs, whether gold or steel, and the ones in pens that were originally more expensive generally being better (more, I think, due to the overall care lavished on the pen than anything else).

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

 

 

[entity999]

Not a subject I could really add to except to say that my TWSBI 530 fine nib is the only steel nib I possess and is the scratchiest, but is still very usable. This wouldn't put me off steel nibs though; having read the info on the Edison website about steel nibs I'd be intrigued to try out a Collier (lovely looking pen!) that's been Binderized to see just what a good quality steel nib can do.

[VillersCotterets]

Richard Binder's opinion on this topic:

 

So, whether you’re choosing a new pen or exploring vintage classics, keep in mind this general pecking order of nib materials: 14K gold is the best, 10K gold and palladium silver are also surprisingly good, 18K gold is good but not the very best; and while steel nibs are much less costly, they can still be very good indeed. And when it comes to brass and titanium nibs, it’s probably better not to go there — unless of course you just want to look at the pen and don’t actually plan to write with it.

[Leander]

The only warning using steel nibs is that iron-gall ink eventually might damage them.

[Leander]

Currently, I use iron gall-containing inks only in pens with a gold nib. Is the risk of steel nib damage by iron gall inks really relevant. After what period of time would one expect to see signs of damage. Does anyone know?

[Mickey]

Currently, I use iron gall-containing inks only in pens with a gold nib. Is the risk of steel nib damage by iron gall inks really relevant. After what period of time would one expect to see signs of damage. Does anyone know?

 

With stainless steel, rather a long time, depending on the alloy and the particular ink. IG FP inks are relatively safe, but they do fall into the category of high maintenance, probably not because of their corrosive quality, but because they can drop a little sediment, which can build up in and eventually choke the feed. Monthly flushing is not a bad idea. For modern, (stainless) steel nibbed fountain pens, fountain pen designated IG inks (e.g., MB Midnight Blue, R&K Scabiosa) are safe. Your pen could easily out live you.

 

IG dip pen inks are another story, as are most dip pen nibs. The not-for-fountain-pen IG inks are quite a bit more corrosive (and drop huge amounts of sediment) and they will degrade and eventually destroy (unplated, non-stainless) dip pen nibs in fairly short order, in anywhere from a week to months, depending on the ink formula and the user's pen hygiene.

[Miles R.]

IMHO

A bad gold nib is better than a bad steel nib.

A good steel nib is better than a bad gold nib.

A good gold nib is better than a bad steel nib.

A good gold nib is better than a good steel nib.

 

It is my experience that bad is bad and that good is good. Could you explain why one bad nib is worse than another bad nib based only on the material from which it is made and why a good nib is automatically better than another good nib, again, based only on the material from which it is made? It is my opinion that a nib that writes well is a good nib, and that a nib that writes poorly is a bad nib. You obviously feel differently and while that makes no sense to me, I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this opinion.

 

There was nothing confused in Glen's statement, at least as I understand it. His claim (I'll just take the last of the four) was that a good gold nib is a better nib than a good steel nib. The implication is that the steel nib that satisfies the standards of its kind is not as good by the standards of nibs in general as is a gold nib that satisfies the standards of its kind. It is analogous to noting that a tall Dutchman is taller than a tall Vietnamese man: each is, by hypothesis, tall, but by different standards. I don't know if Glen's claim is true, but it is not incoherent. You are taking him to task for having made the claim that a good nib that happens to be made of gold is a better nib than an equally good nib that happens to be made of steel. That is certainly incoherent, but it is not at all the same claim.

[lapis]

I have used all of the 7 currently available FP iron gall inks in my M215, NNs, and Kulturs, all of which have steel nibs. I wash and rinse at least every 3 months. Till today, no harm ever seen.

 

Mike

[ethernautrix]

Currently, I use iron gall-containing inks only in pens with a gold nib. Is the risk of steel nib damage by iron gall inks really relevant. After what period of time would one expect to see signs of damage. Does anyone know?

 

 

Mickey and Lapis address your question (above).

 

I live by: When in doubt, flush more often.

 

Thus, if I'm using IG inks or Platinum Carbon inks, I clean my pens more often than usual (which can still be several months between...). So far, so good!

[Dave the brew guy]

Good steel nibs have a coating on them such as rhodium to make them smooth writers, though some gold nib pens are coated with rhodium too. Pure gold nibs do not require a coating to write smoothly. Pure steel nibs are susceptible to corrosion unless they are alloyed. Gold nibs do not corrode.

Hmmm.... this is contrary to everything I thought I knew about nibs. Where did you get this information? I'd like to read/see it for myself.

I'd always heard that the coatings (plating), rhodium or otherwise, found on many stainless steel nibs and on some gold nibs, is strictly decorative.

I'd also heard that most nibs are tipped with iridium (or an alloy with similar properties) and that the gold, steel or plating material don't actually contact the paper. If this were true, why would a coating over the steel or gold make a difference in how smoothly a nib can lay down a line of ink on paper?

While it's true that steel will corrode, aren't modern FP nibs made of stainless steel and therefore somewhat resistant to corrosion?

IMHO

A bad gold nib is better than a bad steel nib.

A good steel nib is better than a bad gold nib.

A good gold nib is better than a bad steel nib.

A good gold nib is better than a good steel nib.

 

It is my experience that bad is bad and that good is good. Could you explain why one bad nib is worse than another bad nib based only on the material from which it is made and why a good nib is automatically better than another good nib, again, based only on the material from which it is made? It is my opinion that a nib that writes well is a good nib, and that a nib that writes poorly is a bad nib. You obviously feel differently and while that makes no sense to me, I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this opinion.

 

There was nothing confused in Glen's statement, at least as I understand it. His claim (I'll just take the last of the four) was that a good gold nib is a better nib than a good steel nib. The implication is that the steel nib that satisfies the standards of its kind is not as good by the standards of nibs in general as is a gold nib that satisfies the standards of its kind. It is analogous to noting that a tall Dutchman is taller than a tall Vietnamese man: each is, by hypothesis, tall, but by different standards. I don't know if Glen's claim is true, but it is not incoherent. You are taking him to task for having made the claim that a good nib that happens to be made of gold is a better nib than an equally good nib that happens to be made of steel. That is certainly incoherent, but it is not at all the same claim.

Your analogy seems to be based based on the idea that the average Dutchman is taller than the average Vietnamese man. While there may be statistics to suppport this idea, there are no statistics that support the idea that standards for gold nibs and steel nibs are different. I see Glenn's statement as being closer to "a 6' tall Dutchman is taller than a 6' tall Vietnamese man." Glenn's statement makes sense if you assume that gold is an inherently better material than stainless steel when it comes to nib construction. I take the question posed by the OP as an inquiry into the validity of this assumption, answering the question only by restating the assumption is not very helpful. I would still like to hear Glenn's explanation of "why gold is better" rather than restate "because it's gold."