Brands You Will Never Buy From

[karmakoda]

I never say never, 'cause I'm sick of eating crow. :hmm1:

 

 

....then I get over it and enjoy my shiny new, whatever it was I said I would never buy.

......50th anniversary corvette with tan top!! :embarrassed_smile:

[rwilsonedn]

I love data, so thank you, 82Greg!

A couple of things kind of call out to me from the chart. Assuming that companies that sell a lot of pens will find it easier to make random enemies than companies that sell few pens (everyone messes up once in a while), then I would expect the bar chart to be more or less similar to a chart of sales unit volume by brand. And for the most part it is, but there are a few clear outliers.

On the high-volume side, where you'd expect to find a lot of enemies, Pilot really sticks out: not even one person would never buy a Pilot? Wow! Also, Pelikan seems to be quite low for the number of people who buy, or at least talk about them. Given that Pelikan's aren't inexpensive, this kind of refutes the idea that high-cost brands will get a lot of mentions just out of resentment.

At the other extreme, MB, Krone, and Visconti seem to have a real gift for alienating people. In all these cases, it sounds as if they have managed to make enemies out of people who have never even purchased a pen from them. Now that's marketing power!

ron

[79spitfire]

Everyone's entitled to his opinion yada yada yada... I liked Jack's response. I have no beef with Tokugawa or his list (it's his list), but I enjoyed Jack's response, and I threatened him to get an invitation to his workshop, and it worked. So... you know... the next time I'm in the UK (which, given the pattern, might be a few years), I'm looking forward to enjoying a tour of his workshop and a close-up look at his pens, which might look impractical for my use, but I do admire the craftsmanship and I like the well-placed sparkle. (Gemstones appeal to my inner magpie.)

As a jewellery design tinkerer, I'd love to see what it takes to be 'big time'!

 

I don't think I'd ever buy one of Jack's pens to use but if one came my way, I think I'd just be happy setting on a pedestal and admiring it's intricacy....

[trent]

I wouldn't buy another Hero, Wing Sung, or other Chinese pen, no matter how cheap. They were all duds. The Airmail and other pens from India proved very poor as well. Noodler's pens---didn't work for me. The only MB I have is a Traveller and it has flow issues. Levenger pens---ugh! Krone: I'm turned off by the designs. Modern-day Cross, Sheaffer, and Parker pens hold no temptation for me. Lamy 2000s are beautiful but all of mine leaked. The only contemporary pens that I would buy with confidence would be Pelikan, Aurora, Faber Castell, Sailor, and Pilot. Oh, and Edison!

Edited September 22, 2012 by trent

[Florida Blue]

I've noticed that most of the mentions of Cross have nothing to do with the quality of the pens, writing experience or company service but the chief complaint is that they are either boring or ugly.

 

I think I have to chalk this up as a sort of an anti-endorsement: it is but at the same time it is not.

 

Sounds good to me since I really enjoy my Cross Apogee and Suavage

 

 

Another point that I wanted to make was that the pen companies that got the largest negative responses (Montblanc, Parker, Waterman, Lamy, Sheaffer and Cross) happen to be the market leaders in fountain pens and represent some of the largest (if not the largest) fountain pen makers.

 

It makes sense. You are going to hear more complaints simply based on larger production volume, marker presence/dominance, access and the fact that these companies have produced collectively thousands of different models (both good and bad) over the last 100+ years or more.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Florida Blue

[Muncle]

The Airmail and other pens from India proved very poor as well.

 

 

Interesting...I have an Airmail that is my daily, and has been for the last several weeks (It has got a huge tank! I can't empty it fast enough!). I've found that they're durable, solid, pens, especially for the price.

 

That being said, I have received some Indian pens that the workmanship wasn't quite up to the quality I would have like to have seen. But for the price, I'm not one to complain too much.

 

Now, if I am to through my pitch into this mess, I would say that I would only buy _modern_ top-tier pens from Lamy, PIlot, Visconti, possibly Pelikan and TWSBI, and the smaller manufacturers. I'll buy vintage Sheaffers and Parkers, but nothing of their new stuff.

[EP Tech]

I doubt that I would ever buy any of the Italian brands. I would never buy another brand costing more than 200.00 dollars USD.

[tonydent84]

I've noticed that most of the mentions of Cross have nothing to do with the quality of the pens, writing experience or company service but the chief complaint is that they are either boring or ugly.

 

I think I have to chalk this up as a sort of an anti-endorsement: it is but at the same time it is not.

 

Sounds good to me since I really enjoy my Cross Apogee and Suavage

 

 

Another point that I wanted to make was that the pen companies that got the largest negative responses (Montblanc, Parker, Waterman, Lamy, Sheaffer and Cross) happen to be the market leaders in fountain pens and represent some of the largest (if not the largest) fountain pen makers.

 

It makes sense. You are going to hear more complaints simply based on larger production volume, marker presence/dominance, access and the fact that these companies have produced collectively thousands of different models (both good and bad) over the last 100+ years or more.

 

In my experience, Cross has been the only brand whose fountain pens consistently wrote great right out of the box. But I do have my quarrels about some of their models. But it's safe to say that I will definitely buy another Cross in the future if the opportunity presents. Every single one of the ones I own now (about 7 fountains, about 7 rollers, and about a dozen or so ballpoints and pencils) operates just as it should with the exception of one that I need to send in for repairs.

 

But looks can go a long way in attracting or turning away sales. I have no problems with the Lamys I own, I just don't like the looks of the pens. So I don't see myself getting one anytime soon (though eventually, I might get the Lamy2000).

 

And you bring up a great point that the companies being named are mainly the most major players in the market. It makes sense that they would have a high number of people that are not crazy about their brands. But for these companies to be around for such a long time and to be seeming like they're doing good for themselves, I imagine their fan-bases are so much larger than the number people who dislike them.

 

 

Edit to add: Cross is not the only company that I've had pleasant experiences with when first inking their pens. Sheaffer never gave me a problem either when it came to how they wrote. Every single Sheaffer I ever bought (vintage and modern) wrote right out of the box and stood writing even after my nib "experiements" which could've made other fountain pens useless.

 

Perhaps 6 months ago or so, if I had participated in a similar thread, one of the companies I would've listed would've been Sheaffer due to reasons other than their performance (e.g., my 300 is too top heavy, my Javelins splash ink whenever I cap or uncap them, etc.).But writing-wise, they never gave me an issue.

Edited September 22, 2012 by tonydent84

[trent]

But remember, many of the large companies probably make a majority of their sales not to fountain pen enthusiasts per se, but to people buying a one-time gift or a pen as a mere accessory. Such customers will go to the big brand names. (Who is going to give a frshly minted lawyer a TWSBI instead of a Montblanc?) And they are probably not going to be too exacting in their demands for great writing performance, at least not to the same degree that, say, most members of this network will.

Edited September 22, 2012 by trent

[mr T.]

But remember, many of the large companies probably make a majority of their sales not to fountain pen enthusiasts per se, but to people buying a one-time gift or a pen as a mere accessory. Such customers will go to the big brand names. (Who is going to give a frshly minted lawyer a TWSBI instead of a Montblanc?

These customers would also buy a TWSBI instead of a Mont Blanc if TWSBI fp's were available (for a decent price) at B&M shops. One of the strong points of a 'large company' is the distribution network.

[EP Tech]

Never say never applies here, especially when one considers the wonderful comment Jar made...But Lamy and TWSBI make nothing at the moment my eye cares for. I doubt very much I would ever buy any of the ultra expensive brands, well, maybe a C-S someday but certainly no others.

[Garageboy]

To me, I'd take a $500 Montblanc is less overpriced than a $400 Parker Duofold,

It seems like there is an anti snob, snobbery feeling around here sometimes

[pelicanachic]

I will never buy platinum and edison again I purchased 3 pens from each brand (though edison always second hand)

None of them wrote smoothly All of them had scratchy feeling

I would rather go TWSBI and pilot

No offenses here Everyone has different experiences

[skipwilliams]

The only pens that are really not worth buying are those with poor quality or operating design flaws. Any issues with style are personal preferences and really shouldn't be a reason to knock a specific brand.

 

If you don't think that a pen is "worth" what you paid or you think it's overpriced, that's also a personal preference. Price is not necessarily an indication of quality, even though it really should be. Remember, many of today's high-priced pens' value is in the workmanship of the pen body and ornamentation, not the mechanics of the ink delivery system. Also, many pens are high-priced to drive profit margins, not because they are better. Many people are happy driving a 10 yr old truck, while some people must have a new car every 2 years. Some women are OK with a $50 messenger bag, others have to have a $7,000 Hermes bag.

 

People who are "disappointed" by the writing characteristics of pen A or pen B and knock a whole brand because the pens they've tried are "scratchy" should learn to adjust their own nibs. FP's are NOT ballpoints and most are subject to getting of alignment, especially when mistreated. It's a rare pen that has a truly bad nib, most scratchy issues are either the nib turned on the feed or mis-aligned tines . A really bad nib is rare, but I've seen it on most every brand at one time or another; typically "baby's bottom" issues that are NOT correctable without a major regrind, and they're rare. I've also seen some models' ink delivery system designed poorly which also could not be repaired, but suffer from design flaws....also very rare. Witness the Tibaldi Model 60 or Stipula 22 (wasn't it that model?).

 

Workmanship or flaws are a symptom of poor quality control or design errors and are usually corrected by high-quality companies. Conklin's first iteration of new pens a few years ago a classic example......high quality from Visconti at the start, then downhill as they moved to lower cost Asian makers, ending with shoddy plating on the line before they went under and were sold. TWSBI has some issues with cracking pens and was very good about replacement.

 

Skip

[georges zaslavsky]

Parker Pens because Sanford stole me of 60€ I asked for cap exchange and what I got in return was an exchanged cap but also a scratchy nib.

 

Waterman because like my favorite dealer Mr Mora told me, they offer nothing new and since the end of production of the man 100, they propose nothing stellar or extraordinary.

 

Visconti because of the finickiness of the quality control and the stifness of the nib, the packaging and celluloid body are not enough to convince me more than 500€ on a pen.

 

Delta because most of their nibs are dull, characterless and offer no line variation. I also hate lever fillers.

 

Aurora because of the stiffness of their nibs and unpleasing aesthetics of their pens. Tried several auroras but I dislike them.

Hasn't changed since that time but I will add post 2007 made Sheaffers, Elie Bleu, Marlen, Conway Stewart and TWSBI

[Plume145]

I would only consider excluding a brand if I've bought from them and been dissatisfied - I wouldn't exclude it with no experience unless it's just out of my price range (so okay, let's say I would never buy from a brand that only sells at prices I would have to borrow money to afford...lol).

 

And I would have to be pretty disgruntled too - so a pen or other item that was just..meh, that wouldn't be enough to keep me away. I would need something really egregious, and usually to do with after sales service. So for example, a simple broken or malfunctioning item wouldn't keep me away if it was fixed...but a broken item followed by being given the runaround about replacing it, yeah. But it's not out of of a desire to punish them, more because their behavior has bred aversion

[Sailor Kenshin]

I might have said at one point Montblanc or S. T. Dupont, but just because they was waay too spensive for the likes of me. Now I discover I might be able to afford an older MB. As for Dupont, I'd pretty much have to trip over one at a garage sale.

 

[JonDoh]

For me it's any of the Chinese brands. Although they're cheap, everyone I've bought has been garbage and had to be tossed.

[79spitfire]

For me it's any of the Chinese brands. Although they're cheap, everyone I've bought has been garbage and had to be tossed.

Sorry to hear that, The QC is really spotty, but I have found more good writers than not.

 

Having said that, I'm (trying) to steer clear of them, not so much because they don't write well, but because the finish on the barrel fails so badly. The gold on my X750 is wearing in a very un-even matter. I'm going to take a buffer and see if I can just remove it and polish it to a silver color. Seriously, I could do better plating with some scrap and a 6V battery!

[Edwaroth]

I doubt I'd ever buy a Lamy 2ooo, just don't see what all the fuss is about. Maybe a Safari...on sale. Doubt I would ever purchase a "demonstrator" from anyone, especially at the prices most go for. Clear plastic just doesn't do it for me as I think it looks cheap. Parker and Montblanc are on my off list also.