Your Best Cheap Pen?

[A Smug Dill]

31 minutes ago, ethernautrix said:

… its EF nib is faaaaabulous (not a PO, but all nibs don't have to be a PO. I guess.

 

(Off-topic for cheap pens, I know, but I think we've strayed far from the topic when the O.P. posted the question nearly a decade ago…)

 

I'm still umming and ahing as to whether to get a Pilot CH912 with a PO nib. My Platinum #3776 Century's UEF nib left me fairly unimpressed in terms of precision, smoothness and line width (writing with Platinum Carbon Black ink), and I think my Sailor 14K gold EF nib (so a ‘medium-sized’, i.e. relatively smaller, nib in the 1911 line-up) easily rivals it if not outright surpass it as a very fine nib. A bricks-and-mortar pen shop here ‘made’ me try the Pilot Custom 743's PO nib (when I didn't ask to see Pilot products at all) last year, and my recollection is that it was fine but not as fine as the Platinum UEF nib (that I tried in a different store on the same day, before I decided to order one months later).

 

How many parallel, distinct horizontal lines can you draw with your Pilot PO nib within a 5mm square area, preferably on Rhodia paper? What about vertical lines? (That's my way of estimating fineness of a nib without pulling out a loupe with 0.1mm markings.)

[ethernautrix]

Hejka, Dill.

 

Here's a fast comparison that I was reluctant to upload, cos messy! I hadn't written anything and didn't warm up, but the dog is saying, "Are we taking that walk, or what?!"

 

So, I wrote the bit in the box with the PO nib reversed (sortv -- my nib orientation isn't straightforward, not even where I wrote "conventional orientation," where I still twisted the nib to the right a bit).

 

I've used all three of these inks in the Piccolo with the steel EF nib, and that changes the line width, from fine to finest: Platinum Carbon Black, Iroshizuku Take-sumi, Noodler's Black. (That PCB really thickens the line width, which is why I'm using it. If I wanted all the lines to be exactly like the others, then I could use just one pen, and what's the fun in that? Actually, I like these three black inks for different reasons. If pressed to choose one, I'd go with Noodler's. Luckily, no such pressure!)

I have a Nakaya UEF (rather Platinum nib in a Nakaya), but it isn't inked. 

 

What I like best about the PO nib is the "fude option" with reverse-nib writing. If I use Noodler's Black with it, the conventional-orientation line quality is practically indistinguishable from the Nakaya EF.

[A Smug Dill]

ethernautrix, thank you very much for that!

 

4 hours ago, ethernautrix said:

What I like best about the PO nib is the "fude option" with reverse-nib writing.

 

I can see why that would be a very attractive feature/option. Kinda like why I like the Sailor Naginata Concord (NK) nib, writing finer and with more consistent line width in normal (or conventional) orientation, but offers broader lines and more variable line width when used sparingly in reverse orientation for decorative/special effects in the text. Except that the NK nib isn't fine enough for my tastes in regular writing.

 

You've also confirmed for me that the Pilot PO nib will not be as fine as the Platinum UEF nib. Hmmm.

 

In any case, I wasn't planning on it, but a few hours ago I ended up with having another EF-nibbed Sailor pen (a Shikiori Manyo, in Professional Gear Slim form factor) awaiting dispatch to me. (It wasn't what I ordered yesterday, but the eBay seller has since informed me he/she doesn't have any stock of the discontinued F-nibbed Promenade I ordered, so we ended up negotiating and this is what he/she'll send in lieu.)

[rkesey]

6 hours ago, ethernautrix said:

Hejka, Dill.

 

Here's a fast comparison that I was reluctant to upload, cos messy! I hadn't written anything and didn't warm up, but the dog is saying, "Are we taking that walk, or what?!"

 

So, I wrote the bit in the box with the PO nib reversed (sortv -- my nib orientation isn't straightforward, not even where I wrote "conventional orientation," where I still twisted the nib to the right a bit).

 

I've used all three of these inks in the Piccolo with the steel EF nib, and that changes the line width, from fine to finest: Platinum Carbon Black, Iroshizuku Take-sumi, Noodler's Black. (That PCB really thickens the line width, which is why I'm using it. If I wanted all the lines to be exactly like the others, then I could use just one pen, and what's the fun in that? Actually, I like these three black inks for different reasons. If pressed to choose one, I'd go with Noodler's. Luckily, no such pressure!)

I have a Nakaya UEF (rather Platinum nib in a Nakaya), but it isn't inked. 

 

What I like best about the PO nib is the "fude option" with reverse-nib writing. If I use Noodler's Black with it, the conventional-orientation line quality is practically indistinguishable from the Nakaya EF.

I don't know why I'm so surprised by that much variation in line width from different inks, but I am! Thanks for this.

[82Greg]

I have had tremendous success with Pilot Metropolitan and Pilot (now at $19.50) and Platinum Preppy ($5.50). Not the ambiance I desire, but consistent great writing instruments.

[inkstainedruth]

Yes, I have a couple of Metropolitans (one with an M nib and one with a stub) and they are great pens for the money.  I think some people have issues with the step down to the section, but my hands are small enough that it's not an issue for me.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

[RJS]

The ergonomics of the Metropolitan make writing sessions uncomfortable for me, with my fairly large man hands. The section is very slim, and the step is huge. It looks great capped, and clearly went with aesthetics as its priority. If you're in a country which sells the Prera for a similar price to the Metroplitan, I'd heartily recommend that as an infinitely better pen with the same great (budget) nib.

[Boston Brian]

I need to use a pen with a broad nib, seriously broad I mean people, I have enjoyed using a Lady Safari filled with red ink, works great for correcting type written scripts. So much so I have ordered another broad Safari.

 

Can anyone recommend an equally broad, wet writing pen from the lower price bracket?

[A Smug Dill]

16 minutes ago, Boston Brian said:

Can anyone recommend an equally broad, wet writing pen from the lower price bracket?

 

Try an ‘art’ nib or Fude nib on a (Chinese-made) Duke or Hero pen?

[txomsy]

Problem with the fude nib is it requires some mastering if you are not used to it.

 

Any Lamy (Safari, Joy, etc...) can be had with a broad nib, or be bought one and substituted, and is guaranteed to be a great pen. A Faber-Castell Grip Edition runs for 26.50 and you can also choose the nib width. Generally, any pen from a major maker will likely be available in a range of nib widths (including stubs and italics as well), just choose one from the lower-end range with the nib you like.

 

Chinese pens, at least the ones that make it here, are usually only available in F, M or fude. It is by far easier to go for a Parker, Pelikan, Lamy, Kaweco, etc..., even the humble Manuscript calligraphy sets or Stabilo consumer grade pens, where you can find a wide range of designs, better -IMMostHO- quality control and support, and larger variety of easily accessible nib widths.

 

BTW, it seems that if you have a Parker retailer service close, you can bring your pen within 28 days of purchase and get a complimentary nib swap (which includes B, EB, EEB, BO, and BI). Their web page does not say if it only applies to some models.

[MuddyWaters]

On 2/20/2021 at 6:36 PM, A Smug Dill said:

 

(Off-topic for cheap pens, I know, but I think we've strayed far from the topic when the O.P. posted the question nearly a decade ago…)

 

I'm still umming and ahing as to whether to get a Pilot CH912 with a PO nib. My Platinum #3776 Century's UEF nib left me fairly unimpressed in terms of precision, smoothness and line width (writing with Platinum Carbon Black ink), and I think my Sailor 14K gold EF nib (so a ‘medium-sized’, i.e. relatively smaller, nib in the 1911 line-up) easily rivals it if not outright surpass it as a very fine nib. A bricks-and-mortar pen shop here ‘made’ me try the Pilot Custom 743's PO nib (when I didn't ask to see Pilot products at all) last year, and my recollection is that it was fine but not as fine as the Platinum UEF nib (that I tried in a different store on the same day, before I decided to order one months later).

 

How many parallel, distinct horizontal lines can you draw with your Pilot PO nib within a 5mm square area, preferably on Rhodia paper? What about vertical lines? (That's my way of estimating fineness of a nib without pulling out a loupe with 0.1mm markings.)

 

For that platinum uef, what about using kiwa guro instead of carbon black? It runs thinner AND is more lubricated.

 

Pilot black is less attractive black (grayer) but it is also more lubricated. 

[mr T.]

On 2/20/2021 at 5:29 PM, AlexItto said:

As a new user, this may be my favorite thread. Does anyone have any thoughts on the cheap Schneiders (such as the Base model) or the cheap Pelikans (like the Pelicano?)

The Schneider Base or the Pelikan Pelikano are, just like the Lamy Safari, not bad but overpriced compared to pens like the Jinhao 992 or the Jinhao X750. 

[A Smug Dill]

6 hours ago, MuddyWaters said:

For that platinum uef, what about using kiwa guro instead of carbon black? It runs thinner AND is more lubricated.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, but at the time (and for now, still) I was after a pen-and-ink combination for filling in customs forms to be posted on the outside of envelopes which could get wet along the way, writing on tiny labels for ink converters and sample vials that I have to rub hard to get them to stick properly on a curved surface, and labelling chromatography strips (before soaking them). Sailor Kiwaguro just isn't nearly waterproof enough, so I'd have to try Souboku or Seiboku from that range of inks instead, if I must find an alternative to Platinum Carbon Black.

[AlexItto]

Thanks! I hadn't even heard of Jinhao yet.

[AlexItto]

On 2/21/2021 at 7:25 AM, ethernautrix said:

Hejka, Dill.

 

Here's a fast comparison that I was reluctant to upload, cos messy! I hadn't written anything and didn't warm up, but the dog is saying, "Are we taking that walk, or what?!"

 

So, I wrote the bit in the box with the PO nib reversed (sortv -- my nib orientation isn't straightforward, not even where I wrote "conventional orientation," where I still twisted the nib to the right a bit).

 

I've used all three of these inks in the Piccolo with the steel EF nib, and that changes the line width, from fine to finest: Platinum Carbon Black, Iroshizuku Take-sumi, Noodler's Black. (That PCB really thickens the line width, which is why I'm using it. If I wanted all the lines to be exactly like the others, then I could use just one pen, and what's the fun in that? Actually, I like these three black inks for different reasons. If pressed to choose one, I'd go with Noodler's. Luckily, no such pressure!)

I have a Nakaya UEF (rather Platinum nib in a Nakaya), but it isn't inked. 

 

What I like best about the PO nib is the "fude option" with reverse-nib writing. If I use Noodler's Black with it, the conventional-orientation line quality is practically indistinguishable from the Nakaya EF.

 

What do you mean "WARM UP"??

 

 

[ethernautrix]

17 hours ago, AlexItto said:

 

What do you mean "WARM UP"??

 

 

 

Hand was cold. Hadn't handled a pen yet. It was to explain my messy handwriting sample. 

[ethernautrix]

On 2/21/2021 at 7:07 PM, A Smug Dill said:

You've also confirmed for me that the Pilot PO nib will not be as fine as the Platinum UEF nib. Hmmm.

 

Hey, Dill.

 

I thought about inking up a Nakaya, with the Platinum UEF nib (to show the comparison), but while I admire that you keep hundreds of pens inked, I'm on the other end of that continuum. I'm not sure that dipping the nib would provide a fair data point.

 

But! I inked up a Newton pocket pen now with a Pilot #10 PO nib with Noodler's Black to join my "dailies." Just for the heck of it, here's how the lines compare with the Nakaya EF. They're so close.... 

 

The paper is the same, actually the same page. I'd filled up this Rhodia Webnotebook recently, so didn't have much space. And I realized that the line spacing is 7mm, not 8mm. 

 

Both pens are a pleasure to write with, but while I prefer the feel of the Pilot nib, overall I prefer the feel of the Nakaya Piccolo. But the writing experience with both is excellent, so... it's easy to enjoy both.

 

I have one Sailor - 1911S (H-EF), bought in Tokyo in late 2001. That used to be my finest EF and a revelacja! But now it's a third favorite in a Top Three crowded with co-favorites.

[txomsy]

I want one of those! I've been wanting something writing so fine like, for ever.

 

[A Smug Dill]

18 hours ago, ethernautrix said:

But! I inked up a Newton pocket pen now with a Pilot #10 PO nib with Noodler's Black to join my "dailies." Just for the heck of it, here's how the lines compare with the Nakaya EF.

 

Thank you very much for that! Were you drawing those lines with the page aligned as shown, with left-to-right cross-strokes going from one ruled line on the page to the next in the 8mm-high space, and downstrokes immediately above the words NAKAYA and PILOT? The shading and the ‘match-heads’ on the lines seem to suggest so, but I just thought I should double-check. It's interesting to see the Pilot PO nib runs drier when drawing lines in one particular direction, whereas the Nakaya EF nib is equally wet both ways.

 

18 hours ago, ethernautrix said:

while I admire that you keep hundreds of pens inked, I'm on the other end of that continuum.

 

I'm just both too lazy and too miserly to clean my pens after every use; if I did, I'd be flushing far more ink down the drain than what I put on paper with nibs. My habits, however, makes me ill-positioned and reluctant to test the performance of different nibs using the same ink for fair comparison.

[ethernautrix]

6 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Thank you very much for that! Were you drawing those lines with the page aligned as shown, with left-to-right cross-strokes going from one ruled line on the page to the next in the 8mm-high space, and downstrokes immediately above the words NAKAYA and PILOT? The shading and the ‘match-heads’ on the lines seem to suggest so, but I just thought I should double-check. It's interesting to see the Pilot PO nib runs drier when drawing lines in one particular direction, whereas the Nakaya EF nib is equally wet both ways.

 

 

I'm just both too lazy and too miserly to clean my pens after every use; if I did, I'd be flushing far more ink down the drain than what I put on paper with nibs. My habits, however, makes me ill-positioned and reluctant to test the performance of different nibs using the same ink for fair comparison.

 

My pleasure, Dill. And yes, and I just did this: 

 

Oops, I'm trying to type this under the image, but... nope.

 

Anyway, I just today cleaned out the unpolished shu Nakaya Piccolo (steel EF), cos with the Piccolo kuro-tamenuri (14kt EF) and Newton "MIM" (my nickname for the pen, cos long story) both have Noodler's Black and write essentially the same, I took the Platinum Carbon Black cartridge from the red Piccolo and put it in the black Piccolo, and it's already clear that the line is broader. Ink makes the difference.

 

Noodler's Black definitely is the driest of these three black inks -- and the least smooth although not unpleasant to write with. 

I did find it uncomfortable making the right-to-left lines, hahaha, not used to that direction.

 

Maybe I should mention that I have a high pen-holding angle, nearly 90 degrees and tend to write on the outer left side of the left tine.

 

EDITED TO ADD: And my laziness is what compels me to stick to three or four (sometimes five, dammit) "dailies" and two (now three) inks, otherwise, my capriciousness means I'm standing at the sink, cleaning out pens and cartridges and syringing and all that fussing.