Why Do You Like Vintage Pens?

[HDoug]

OK, will let Andy's fine response speak for itself and get back on target. Back to the vintage issue, I don't have any vintage ("used", "preowned", etc.). Yet. I'm thinking about it but worried about determining how well the insides are. All of my own stuff -- cars, computers, pens, whatever -- get use but no abuse and I'd buy anything from me. But a used -- I mean, vintage -- pen, a snork say. Who knows if you put that thing in your pocket, take it to work and your shirt has become an aloha shirt with a Pasternak Blue blossom over the pocket area?

 

The other thing is a problem I have with what I call "karma germs." Without trying to get superstitous and mystical about it, some objects "absorb" an influence of its previous owner that can influence some people. This is part of the lore of swords, and it's a widespread belief here in Polynesia that objects can be imbued with the "spirit" of the user. Then there's that Twilight Zone episode called "Deadman's Shoes" (I think), about this gangster who gets murdered. Some bum steals the shoes and "becomes" the gangster and tries to avenge his death.

 

Someone talk me out of this so I can buy some vintage pens. I'd like to find a vintage Conway Stewart previously owned by a rich literary genius who had a lot of girlfriends. And nice handwriting.

 

Doug

Edited December 9, 2006 by HDoug

[psfred]

A pen is a writing instrument. Used for decades, it MAY have a flat spot worn on the nib that doesn't fit your hand, causing the nib to be scratchy.

 

I don't think modern nibs are much of an improvement over 50 year old ones -- in fact, they are often made of lesser materials. The vast majority of research and development was done in the 40's and 50s -- nothing has changed much since then except that fountain pen sales have dropped from millions a year to thousands a year for American makers. This causes very high prices and a severe lack of inovation -- can't get your startup money back. Modern pens, being expensive by virtue of low sales, tend to marketed as fashion accessories instead of working tools (with the exception of the inexpensive Chinese pens and low priced European "school pens"). Nothing like the Parker 51 or the Sheaffer snorkels, both killed off pretty much by ball points (meaning low sales and too expensive to make in small numbers).

 

I don't find sac replacements after 50 years to be a major quality issue -- after all, latex rubber today is much better than it was 50 years ago, so your new sac (and viton 0-ring in a Sheaffer TD or Snork) will likely outlast YOU. I've gotten about half the Snorks I have in working condition, and all ten or so Parkers have only needed cleaning except for one 21 with a cracked hood. All but the 45s are more than 40 years old and still work fine. May need some sacs in the Parkers eventually, but a silicone rubber sac that lasts another 50 or 60 years is surely gonna outlast me!

 

As for "karma", I think you've been watching a few too many horror flicks. These are pens, you put ink in them and write things on paper....

 

Peter

[amh210]

OK, will let Andy's fine response speak for itself and get back on target.  Back to the vintage issue, I don't have any vintage ("used", "preowned", etc.).  Yet.  I'm thinking about it but worried about determining how well the insides are.  All of my own stuff -- cars, computers, pens, whatever -- get use but no abuse and I'd buy anything from me.  But a used -- I mean, vintage -- pen, a snork say.  Who knows if you put that thing in your pocket, take it to work and your shirt has become an aloha shirt with a Pasternak Blue blossom over the pocket area?

 

The other thing is a problem I have with what I call "karma germs."  Without trying to get superstitous and mystical about it, some objects "absorb" an influence of its previous owner that can influence some people.  This is part of the lore of swords, and it's a widespread belief here in Polynesia that objects can be imbued with the "spirit" of the user.  Then there's that Twilight Zone episode called "Deadman's Shoes" (I think), about this gangster who gets murdered.  Some bum steals the shoes and "becomes" the gangster and tries to avenge his death.

 

Someone talk me out of this so I can buy some vintage pens.  I'd like to find a vintage Conway Stewart previously owned by a rich literary genius who had a lot of girlfriends.  And nice handwriting.

 

Doug

How you can wind up with a reliable vintage pen that won't ink your shirt:

• Buy it from a reliable dealer. There are many such, some of whom have restored the pens they are selling to you.
• Start with vintage pens that are largely foolproof, i.e., an aerometric Parker "51"
• Learn to do your own repairs. Start with the basics, putting a new sac on an Esterbrook J. If you have done it yourself you will know whether or not you did a good job.

• Ink it up in the evening and let it sit capped, point up in a cup on your sink counter. Check for leaks
• Ink it up in the evening and let it sit capped, point down, in a cup on your sink counter. Check for leaks.
• Ink it in the evening and let it sit overnight in a horizontal position in a plastic plate. Check for leaks.
• Your first inking should be a washable blue.

• Buy a restored Estie J from me. $35.
• Don't buy a vintage pen from an unknown source on ebay or anywhere else, ink it and stick it in your pocket.

Following one or more of these guidelines should keep you from inking your shirt.

 

Andy

[krz]

I don't think any of my vintage fountain pens came from Uncle Lewis' Pawn shop.

I do think a pen more so than most any other intimate material objects might have had a chance in it's history to be life changing by committing the owner's thoughts to history or decisions to motion.

 

Some of us like old stuff (like me). I've heard that actor "Billy Bob Thornton" can't be anywhere near antique furniture.

 

My favorite motorcycle was made 35 years ago.

 

I like the style , performance and durability I get from my vintage pens.

Edited December 10, 2006 by krz

[Nihontochicken]

There are some well-designed modern pens, but ironically many of the high-priced flagship designs today are copies of "retro" pens: the Sheaffer Balance, Parker Duofold, Waterman Le Man, Pelikan M400, etc - and in almost every case, with a bit of care and research, you can get the true vintage version for a much lower price.

 

And the Parker 51 SE (yawn, zawp, zzzzzzzzz!). Yup, you can buy a lot more bling nowadays, but not a lot more competence for the same money. In fact, usually less. Tart 'em up, boys, only matters what they look like, doesn't matter how they work! Uh, no thanks, here. I will faithfully enforce the commands of The Queen, and acquire more vintage 51s. Oops, I forgot, I'm on the wagon! Hic!

[Sharkle]

Mary P: Addi Turbo for when your woodens become unsmoothable! They're quiet.

 

Andy: Next time how about hand-writing your passionate and thought-provoking message and scanning it in? This would look beautiful in cursive using a flex!

 

On vintage: I am considering going down that road . . . The thing I love best about this forum is the wealth of information from both the seasoned and unseasoned FP user. You have no idea how much help I've gotten in making choices and considering pens that I would not have looked at twice on my own. Much appreciated! I guess the only vintage things I have are some dolls and a Royal typewriter. So many modern places and things lack the elegance and sturdiness that was so prevalent in past decades, from architecture to clothing to pens. So much of it was a given back then; we are asked to pay out the nose for it now and to announce the fact of having it.

[FrankB]

I suppose I must join those who love the sense of history derived from using a vintage pen. I like vintage firearms, too, but shooting most of them is an invitation to disaster. Yet I can write with an 80-year old pen and enjoy the experience very much. I always wonder where the pen has been and what messages it has written over the years.

 

I also like to get a feel for how fountain pens have evolved. The technology might be essentially the same, but the pens of yore are different in some interesting ways from contemporary pens. One exemple that comes immediately to mind is the flex in some of the older nibs. It is a type of nib that I cannot find in modern pens, although some come quite close to replicating that vintage flex.

 

Nevertheless, I maintain a balance between vintage and modern. I guess I own three modern pens to every vintage pen I have. BUT, I am at an age where some of the pens I bought new are considered by some to be vintage. <_<

[Ink Stained Wretch]

Could someone who really likes vintage pens -- as users -- explain to me their appeal?

I'm not really one of those who can say anything authoritative on this topic, and others have already chimed in with very good replies, but I'm sort of on the verge of getting into vintage pens and so I'll offer this: I find them interesting.

 

I use cartridge fillers and I refill the cartridges. It just seems the most efficient method to me. But I am fascinated by the "self fillers" from the days when that was the only way to write in ink and not have to dip the pen for every line.

 

I've been given some older pens, including recently a Parker "51" vac made in the second quarter of 1946, and an Esterbrook J, that need restoration. I bought a new sac for the Estie more than a year ago, but I haven't been able to find one of those lights that can let you look inside the barrel that I want to afford. I'll probably have an easier time getting the tools to scrape the insides. The "51" I am sorely tempted to ship off to someone for restoration. Looking in Da Book I can see that dealing with that rubber diaphragm with the ball bearing and all is probably not something I have the tools for.

 

I also find the idea that the pen was used half a century or more ago fascinating. And I do want to see how older pens wrote. So although I'm not a vintage pen user right now I am interested and some time next year I may actually own one that works.

 

I still consider refilling cartridges the best route going but I'm willing to broaden my horizons.

[Nihontochicken]

I like vintage firearms, too, but shooting most of them is an invitation to disaster.

 

?????? Not sure about this, unless you're referring to firing smokeless powder rounds in black powder firearms. That is indeed a no-no, but most everything that was decently made in the last 100 years is eminently shootable, though perhaps not advisably with full house loads. Then again, firing my M-1 Garand is no where near as enjoyable as writing with my dream boat Parker 51, which does not smack me in the face and mash my glasses up against my cheek.

 

I've been given some older pens, including recently a Parker "51" vac made in the second quarter of 1946, and an Esterbrook J, that need restoration.

 

Heh, heh, heh. The Borg makes its move.

[amh210]

Andy: Next time how about hand-writing your passionate and thought-provoking message and scanning it in?  This would look beautiful in cursive using a flex! 

Oh my.

 

If I'm the Andy you are referring to, you have certainly never seen my handwriting! It is pretty horrid and has been such for 45 years. Even I'm embarrassed by it, let alone my mother.

 

One of the FPN members I snail mail with is a public school teacher and I think she uses my letters as samples to her class of what not to do.

 

Of course, if I'm not the Andy you are referring to, then, in the immortal words of Emily Latella..............................................................

 

Never mind.

 

Andy

[rosey]

I like vintage fountain pens because I love most things vintage. Houses, furniture, housewares, cars etc...

 

I think what attracts me to the Parker "51" so much is it's reliabilty every time I pick it up to use it. My pens are 50 years old and write better than a lot of moderns. I also like vintage pens because they have had previous owners and I like to think about what they wrote with their pens.

 

The appeal I think is mostly the history of the pen.

Edited December 17, 2006 by rosey

[jirish1957]

Not surprisingly, this has touched off a lot of comments. Bang for the buck is certainly one consideration. It's hard to find a gold nibbed new pen for less than $100.00 nowdays while plenty of vintage pens are available. Size is another consideration. Oversize vintage pens are popular with collectors because of their rarity and this has carried over to new pen manufacturers. Big pens are rare because most people back in the day preferred smaller pens as daily users (51, snorkel, etc.) Granted, you can get a Sonnet, for example, but for the same amount you can find two vintage pens. You lose the convenience of using a cartridge, but many pen heads prefer to use a converter anyway. As for durability, any pen made of plastic (1930's forward) is at least as durable as a new one, and the gold plating on clips, bands, etc. tends to be thicker than that found on new pens. Chosen wisely a vintage pen will outlast you and, as long as there are folks out there who enjoy restoring them, will probably be used by your heirs in the 22nd century. Incidently, while I don't use my Leica M3 as often as I'd like, it's one thing I'll grab if the house catches on fire.

Edited December 20, 2006 by jirish1957

[Bo Bo Olson]

The semi-flex nibs I have are a couple of 30's pens and some '50's pens max, early '60's. Those are German, in I am an American living in Germany, and they are sort of Vintage common.

Some of the colors of some of the Vintage pens are grand.

 

Modern pens .... no one says out side of Omia (sp) a high classed Italian pen, which might have semi-flex nibs.

 

Swan has the reputation of having great nibs...and a complicated get around the patent mechanism.

 

 

 

Some of the old pens are going to break...but truly, what would you rather have a 1936 Auburn or a modern Vet?

 

Klip-horns are still after 60 years as good as it goes for part of your sound system. So is a good well balanced vintage semi-flex nibbed fountain pen.

 

Inks are better though.

 

I found a Magic Vintage semi flex pen, that allows me to read my writing after a week, with out deciphering by a retired English Teacher....who can afford an English Teacher with a job?

 

Show me a modern pen that can do that.

 

PS I hate the word pre-used....what for stupidity.

Yep all of my vintage pens are used. One ain't but it's not really Vintage...just not made any more, and bought new....so it's a tad used, but not bought used. 1970 Parker 75...is not used, just not new.

1970 is not Vintage...

Edited August 1, 2010 by Bo Bo Olson

[donwinn]

I do not like ALL vintage pens; however, the vintage pens I do like have one or more of the following characteristics:

 

1. Durability -- the pen is, after all, over 60 years old, and still working as it did nearly when new, or better.

 

2. Flexible nib -- I have two modern pens with flex or semi flex nibs, and for the price of either of them, I could get a half dozen or dozen vintage pens with flex nibs.

 

3. Attractive design -- Parker 51 -- need I say more? One is in several museums as an example of a classic design. I also really like BCHR, especially in a flat top. Again, equivalent pen of modern manufacture would cost easily 6-12 times more than the vintage one.

 

4. Filling system -- I like button fillers, vacumatic fillers, lever fillers, and bulb fillers. All (except for vacumatic, at least to my knowledge) are available in a modern pen, if I want to get a third mortgage on my home, or sell one of my kids.

 

5. Feels right -- I have modern pens, and the ones I have kept, I really like. The modern pens I have kept generally have the same feel as the vintage pens I have kept. Good balance, good weight, easy to use for extended writing.

 

6. Value -- I have mentioned in 2, 3, & 4, that a modern pen with the same characteristics would be very expensive, as opposed to what I spend on a vintage pen of similar characteristics.

 

Donnie

[nxn96]

Durability, elegance and ease of use; recognizing that the words don't apply to all vintage pens.

 

The first three fountain pens I bought for myself (back in the 1970's) were a Parker 45, Sheaffer Imperial and Parker 75. All were current production pens. Now my insurance company would probably want an "antique" rider on the policy to cover them. However, even back in the mid/late 1970's, the fountain pen market had moved from "daily user" to "gift"; and it showed in the product. Over time, I moved to the Parker "51". All others now sit tucked away in a drawer and only Parker "51" Aero's (or a Jotter for "borrow" purposes) sit in my pocket or on my desk. I have never found a pen other than the "51" such a joy to use day in and out.

 

One big caveat: I'm not a big "ink" person. I pretty much stick to Quink Blue/Black. Based on what I read on FPN, I suspect, were I more a Noodlers or Private Reserve user (or even a more adventureseome Quink/Waterman user), the modern pens with easier changeout and flushing systems would have more appeal. Why would I want 10 Lamy's, each with a different color hue when I have two Aero's with Quink Blue/Black that are perfect (one's a Medium nib, the other a Fine) for me?

 

Perhaps if I were more an "ink" person, I'd give a different answer. You use what you like, and you like what you use. If you can't say one, don't do the other.

[shadowsforbars]

For me, it's not knowing what I'll find. It could be the batch of poorly described old pens on an auction site. It could be something I find at a local antiques mall. You just never know what you are getting perhaps for several weeks after you buy it. First soaking and cleaning and getting them restored. Of course, this approach means I end up with a few Wearever Pennants and and Sheaffer school pens but they usually work quite nicely and there could be something more interesting under the decades of grime. I also enjoy a little bit of research on the odd brands that sometimes turn up.

[jjaberg]

I have a modest collection of about 10 fountain pens. As a strictly functional matter, the 2 pens that are the most reliable, consistent writers in my collection are: my Parker 51 Special (50's) and my Mont Blanc 34 (60's). Quality is quality. As a budgetary matter, there is no new Mont Blanc pen that I could ever afford.

 

JKJ

[sombrueil]

The appeal of vintage for me is everything: I can find everything I like about fountain pens in (some) vintage pens, and I can't find it anywhere in modern pens. I looked. There are a few Italian makers that turn out a few pens I could love, but just for looking at, not particularly writing with, at a price I can't afford. The combination of right size, balance, weight, aesthetics, materials, and most of all, writing qualities, I could only get if I had a pen totally customized to my specs. But I can get all that, and reasonably, if I go to vintage.

 

Plus, I get a great deal of satisfaction in using old stuff the way it was meant to be used, which is of course, not everybody's idea of a good time either.

 

New stuff isn't born yet, it's inert and lifeless, unless it has been made by hand. It needs human contact and use to come alive -- you know, like the Velveteen Rabbit. Old stuff has a soul, new stuff doesn't. It may work better, although it is hard to make that case for fountain pens, but it's still lifeless until someone has made it their own. It is disadvantageous to capitalism for people to feel this (because then people would be far more inclined to make their own, repair and reuse, not discard and buy new), but that doesn't make it untrue.

[esterbex]

I didn't start my pen lust with vintage pens, but they certainly have taken over my obsession. The idea of a tool as old or older than I still having utility, beauty and relative cost-effectiveness keeps me from feeling old, I guess. Their collection and usage certainly classifies as a "green" endeavour, and that's a modern concept, isn't it? And though not

produced anymore, they are timeless, with a rich and wonderful history. If they could only speak of the hands that held them and the things they wrote....Modern pens don't evoke these feelings in me. Maybe if they survive what these vintage versions have, some 60-years hence, someone then will feel the same about them.

[stonezebra]

What exactly constitutes a 'vintage' pen? Does it depend (at least partially) on the brand? I gather the filling system and nib both have some influence as well? Would appreciate a brief (as possible) explanation.