Why Do You Like Vintage Pens?

[kissing]

I like modern pens better than vintage, but I understand the appeal of Vintage pens. Pens that are now considered "vintage" were ones made in a time where fountain pens were the primary writing instruments. As it is apparent from sturdy pens such as the Parker "51" and Sheaffer Snorkels - the technology involved in these pens exceeds those of simple c/c modern pens.

 

I am not an expert on swords, but I think an analogy can be made here. There are ancient swords, which were used in times of medieval war that can be collected today, and there are swords which are factory made and can be bought at some martial arts vendors (with a licence). Vintage swords have the appeal of a rich history, and for being made at a time when a person depended his life on a sword.

[Nihontochicken]

I am not an expert on swords, but I think an analogy can be made here.

 

True to a goodly extent. But (just as an aside), the art of swordmaking (arguably) reached its zenith in Japan, and it did so (arguably) in the 12th and 13th centuries (western calendar). Sword styles (shapes) of course changed with time, but the quality of the forging since has generally not matched that of nearly a thousand years ago. As far as pens, unlike automobiles, the models of fifty years ago are as good or better in design and manufacture than their modern counterparts (IMO). Unfortunately, the plastics generally have become embrittled with time. That's just the nature of plastics. The better quality plastics have indeed improved over the years, but good modern pens will likely become significantly embrittled in the next fifty years as compared to their original condition. And that is why a Parker 51 Flighter is the greatest pen ever made. Oops, sorry, slipped out again.

[mmoncur]

When I started with fountain pens I couldn't imagine why anyone would want a vintage pen. I figured they would be fragile, would not work reliably, wouldn't write as well as my modern pens, and would cost a small fortune for what was, in its time, a cheap pen.

 

I based this on my experience with things like old cars, computers, and stereos. These have nostalgia value to me, but are in no way practical compared to modern tools.

 

Then I actually bought a couple of vintage pens, and found out I was wrong on every count.

 

Many of them aren't fragile. A pen that has survived 50-60 years without any attempt at preservation isn't going to break just from me handling it, and most are extremely reliable after a few minor repairs. And they often write better than anything modern I could get for the same price. Many still look great.

 

I'll add that I also enjoy the aesthetics of their designs. Some of them (Parker 51, Eversharp Skyline) are literally award-winning designs, and some of the internal mechanisms (51, Snorkel) are fascinating. I also love the old celluloid patterns, and even modern celluloid pens don't have the same appeal.

 

I've found I don't enjoy most of the design trends in modern pens - huge, showy open nibs, more focus on sparkly bits than on overall design, no regard for ergonomics, and boring cartridge-fill systems - so to get designs I enjoy, I need to buy vintage.

 

There are some well-designed modern pens, but ironically many of the high-priced flagship designs today are copies of "retro" pens: the Sheaffer Balance, Parker Duofold, Waterman Le Man, Pelikan M400, etc - and in almost every case, with a bit of care and research, you can get the true vintage version for a much lower price.

 

Most of the manufacturers are now making rollerballs and ballpoints for practical writing, and fountain pens for nostalgia and pocket jewelry. I'd rather have fountain pens that were designed for practical writing. The modern pens I enjoy (Rotring, Lamy, Hero, Pilot) are designed as practical instruments, and that's probably why they all come from countries where FPs are still used by regular folks for actual writing.

 

In conclusion, give a vintage pen or two a try - I recommend Esterbrook as a gateway pen, or maybe the ubiquitous Parker 51 - and see if your instincts were right or wrong. You might be as surprised as I was.

[WillAdams]

Patrick Hand said:

I don't think I want to know who was using a German pen in the 1940's biggrin.gif ( I hope that did not type out wrong... )

 

Probably, it was a perfectly honourable person, who didn't know much about the specifics of what the Nazis were doing and who was far more negatively affected by the war than people in allied nations. And pity the people who were left in east Germany.

 

William

(who is honoured to know a number of WWII vets, American, German, Italian and Japanese)

[Ink Stained Wretch]

I don't think the analogy works because the technology stagnated.  If the ballpoint or rollerball had never been invented, we would now have the best performing and most innovative fountain pens in the history of humankind and would be laughing at the old technology. 

 

That is not the case.

I agree that the analogy doesn't really work for fountain pens, but I'm not at all sure that we'd be any more advanced than we were 50 years ago in terms of fountain pens if they were still the only pens around.

 

Of course there'd be all sorts of things attached to them, but the basic mechanism of a fountain pen would not be very different from what was being produced 50 years ago.

 

I think that some inventions ca be improved up to a certain point and that's it. I think that the fountain pen is one of those things.

 

People could, e.g., add LEDs to light up what you're writing and a microphone and flash drive to record voice, as is done on some ballpoints these days, but that wouldn't really be an improvement on the fountain pen itself. Maybe it just depends on what we consider "advanced."

[kenny]

I don't think the analogy works because the technology stagnated. If the ballpoint or rollerball had never been invented, we would now have the best performing and most innovative fountain pens in the history of humankind and would be laughing at the old technology.

 

That is not the case.

 

Bill

I suppose the non-FP people would say the the rollerballs and ballpoints ARE the new technology, and are laughing at us.

[Betty]

I"m with the author...I like new pens. The only very vintage pen I own is the Parker 51 (which I LOVE) and that is because they don't make the exact same pen today anymore; otherwise I'd get a new one. I don't have any interest in used old-looking stuff. That said, I also don't enjoy vintage clothes and don't buy very used items either. It doesn't bother some people (and some people actually love vintage stuff). I do like New Old Stock though because it's still basically new

 

It's just that different people have different tastes. Though if the item was handed to me from my grandparents or parents, I would treasure very dearly.

[FLZapped]

Well, lately, I'm beginning to wonder if the older nib designs don't contribute to the shading variations you can get with various inks, in other words, the new designs work too well....or at least that is what I am trying to answer for myself now.

 

-Bruce

 

( How's that for an excuse to buy more pens )

 

:ltcapd: :roflmho: :ltcapd:

Edited December 9, 2006 by FLZapped

[bernardo]

I use vintage products for one very simple reason: they are better; they were made to endure, while today's products are made to be replaced soon. As simple as that.

[amh210]

Patrick Hand said:

I don't think I want to know who was using a German pen in the 1940's biggrin.gif ( I hope that did not type out wrong... )

 

Probably, it was a perfectly honourable person, who didn't know much about the specifics of what the Nazis were doing and who was far more negatively affected by the war than people in allied nations. And pity the people who were left in east Germany.

 

William

(who is honoured to know a number of WWII vets, American, German, Italian and Japanese)

Preamble: I don't think I've previously written a political message on FPN. I don't do it lightly, but William's comment just grabbed me by the kishkes and I feel compelled to respond. I don't mean to criticize William or disagree that he knows many honorable WWII Vets on both sides of the conflict (I know a few as well and I don't know any to have been personally dishonorable). Similarly, I know to be honorable many active duty military as well as many more recent veterans.

 

Amble: Perfectly Honorable? That assertion is a bit hard to accept.

 

Were these perfectly honorable German citizens unaware that their armies were invading Poland, France, Denmark, Norway, Russia, Netherlands, Greece, etc.?

 

Did these perfectly honorable German citizens notice or wonder, or care about the dissapearance of their Jewish neighbors?

 

Did these perfectly honorable German citizens consider civil disobedience toward the murderous Nazi regime?

 

Just think of all the suffering. On both sides. The London Blitz. The Dresden Firebombing. The Tokyo Firebombing. Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Treblinka et al. Internment of American citizens of Japanese ethnicity. The siege of Stalingrad. Josef Mengele. Nazi Occupied Europe. The rape of Nanking. Bataan Death March. Occupied Korea and coerced prostitution.

 

Granted, most German citizens during the Nazi regime were probably unaware of the full extent of the murderous depravity of their political leaders and almost all of German citizens responded and did their duty to their Fatherland as they understood it . It was probably safer for oneself and one's family to be somewhat less perceptive. However, most German citizens were not quite as honorable as the few who sacrificed and risked opposition to their political leadership, nor were they quite as honorable as the citizens of Nazi occupied Europe who hid Jews and gays and gypsies in thier attics and cellars, refused to be separated from their students and accompanied them to the death camps, or orchestrated the wholesale rescue of the "untermenschen" via herring boat from Denmark to Sweden. Most adult German citizens during the Nazi regime, and most certainly the Catholic and Lutheran churches, were not quite as honorable as Oscar Schindler.

 

That being said, the pen itself is innocent; it was the brain and finger that might have been among the most vile and murderous in history. It isn't the gun, it is the brain and the trigger-finger. It isn't the belief/faith in God, it is the religion and its officials. Even if it were Hitler's personal Pelikan, (or was it a Mont Blanc?) the problem isn't THAT Pelikan, the Pelikan company, or pens in general because they are tools that serve murder.

 

The moral concern should also extend to us in 2006. Shouldn't it? Do we tolerate, ignore, and justify the innapropriate and sometimes murderous activities or OUR governments? Do we take every opportunity to voice our concerns, vote the bastards out, and apply non-violent pressure where appropriate? Do we sit idly by as genocide occurs in OUR generation in Yugoslavia, Rawanda, Darfur? Do we ignore violence in Beirut, Jakarta, Gaza, Bahgdad? Do we tolerate repression in Burma, North Korea, China, Cuba, Haiti? Aren't there still children who go to bed hungry in London, Washington, Capetown, Addis Abbaba, Jakarta, Moscow?

 

Choices are difficult. If I disaprove of something China does do I decide to not buy a Hero pen? If I oppose child-labor do I not buy shirts made in Bangladesh? If I detest the Governor of my state to I not drink wine made from grapes grown in California? If I support the ethical treatment of animals do I become a vegetarian or do I just boycott Mcdonalds? (or do I just have the french fries while I wonder about the pesticides fouling the environment where the potatos grow in Idaho?) Is it good or bad to buy coffee and bannanas from South America?

 

I would only hope that someone reviewing my life could honestly describe me as perfectly honorable. I'd even settle for largely honorable. But none of that excuses those occasions when I did not object, speak out, vote my morality as opposed to my wallet, did not extend a helping hand, or be the best Andy I could possibly be.

 

The adult citizenry of Nazi Germany were not completely dishonorable. Most likely, a few of them were almost perfectly honorable. In my opinion, that generation of German citizens did not act as honorably as they could have. Had we been one of them, would we have done differently?

 

PostAmble: Again, I don't mean to insult, degrade, or demean anyone based on their citizenry, ethnicity, religion, or politics. If you feel I have done so despite my lack of intent to do so, I apologize. If you felt insulted, degraded, or demeaned personally, I apologize to you individually. Most importantly, if you were one of the adult citizens of Nazi Germany, or the child, grandchild, or great-grandchild of someone who was, I assert that post-Nazi, the Germany and German citizenry have gone further than any other nation to do what they could to "make up" for the horrors perpatrated by that regime. That a Holocaust memorial and museum is a major institution in an undivided Berlin says more about that than anything else I can imagine.

 

Humbly,

 

Andy

[WillAdams]

Andy's comments does a very good job of examining this in an enlightened and perfectly reasonable way. It's complex and difficult, but I really believe that honesty, understanding and forgiveness go a long way towards making the world a better place.

 

William

[HDoug]

Andy, thanks for your thoughtful essay. I'd only like to add the observation that we American members live in a very powerful country that is also one of the most free. What our country does is our responsibility -- it's not just some rich guys' in Washington. Maybe I should say it's not "just" some rich guys' in Washington. So whatever our politics, let us be mindful of what our country is doing at home and abroad, knowledgeable of the consequences of its actions, and active in its governance. It's irresponsible to be ignorant, and foolhardy to be passive.

 

Doug

[Patrick Hand]

I don’t want this to sound “flippant”, I bought the pen because it was a price that I could afford, and had a fine flexible nib, not because it was 1940s German.

 

But it is interesting that a vintage pen from a certain time and place, can act as a reminder of History…

 

There is no way of knowing the pen’s “story”. Who owned it before me, where it has been, and what it was used to write. I don’t think about it every time that I use the pen. But sometimes I do wonder… That tie to the past, both the good and the bad adds some interest to the pen for me.

[johnr55]

Andy, I appreciate your reply as I received several rebukes on another posting for my aversion to Japanese pens.

 

I have lived under protest for going on two administrations in this country, where our leadership considers it proper to trap, kidnap and imprison people in our territory and hold them, many for years, without any hearing, trial, or even legal representation. Seems to be the fashion now, and I'm ashamed of it. I have no doubt that in the future it will be viewed as disgraceful as our theft from, and forced internment of, Americans of Japanese descent during WW II. As I said in that post, the veneer of civilization can be awfully thin. The only answer I will have at that time, should I still be living, is that I consistently and digiligently worked against that regime, both financially and in the voting booth.

[futhark]

I did not expect that my comment about the Blitz would grow into a discussion about far more serious things than vintage pens. However, I brought it up because as an American born after WWII, I think of the Blitz as a particularly intense human drama of a kind that I've been fortunate enough to see from a detached historical perspective. It is obviously tragic that these types of horrors, and others, have continued into the twenty-first century, and show no signs of stopping: I agree with Andy's comments completely.

 

It may seem that associating humble objects like pens with huge events like WWII trivializes those events. But writing instruments are special kinds of artifacts because, until relatively recently, they were the main tools for direct and lasting communications between people. That is not true of most "antiques", and that is why I wonder about the earlier lives of my vintage pens and their owners.

Gerry

[tonyv]

Edited December 9, 2006 by tonyv

[FLZapped]

Okay, the political talk is getting out of hand. The last one is a little TOO much.

 

How about we let this topic die a quiet death at this point.

[EventHorizon]

Zapped, I agree (no offense to anybody however).

 

"Why do I like Vintage Pens". You have a small piece of history in your hands. I am a Esterbrook fan for many reasons but think of it. The Esterbrook pen(s) you have and use were once used possibly by a child that went to school every day and had to learn penmanship as Esterbrooks were priced for children to learn this and other things. What was learned with this pen as a tool? Where is that grown child now? This is why I collect. On a more basic level, they just look cool

[tonyv]

I modified my last post...This is a fine thread that should not go OT.

 

I used to also wonder what the attraction was to vintage pens since my moderns seem so much superior. When I got my Parker Vac, I had a little buyer's remorse when I brought it home, but I have since grown to appreciate and like it for many of the attributes already mentioned in this thread (e.g. lightweight, compact size, etc.).

[Mary P]

Once repaired and put into my rotation, I often find my vintage pens to be more durable and reliable than my modern pens. One vintage pen hold sentimental value. My Parker Lady Duofold belonged to my Gran. It is the first pen I even used.

 

I've been interested in antique and vintage things all my life. I use quite a few vintage kitchen tools on a daily basis. I know that at least two of my cast iron pots are more than 100 years old. I prefer them to the no stick coating variety my sister buys and replaces every two or three years.

 

I have and use a Fuji FinePics A500 but I also have a Nikon F2 with a full compliment of lenses. I can do things with Tri X and a decent darkroom that I couldn't do with the Fuji even with Photoshop's help.

 

The ring I'm wearing on my right hand is 115 years old. It has gone aunt to niece in my family for four generations. Of course I am going to continue the tradition. I like looking at my hand and thinking of the women who wore this ring before me.

 

Most of the wooden knitting needles I use date from the 1920s. Once in awhile I need to smooth them a bit but I far prefer them to the noisy aluminum needles readily available in crafts stores today. It gives me pleasure to know that I am knitting with the same tools as the women who taught me.

 

I takes work to conserve vintage textiles but I'm glad my Gran put forth the effort so that three generations in my family have been Baptized wearing the same chistening gown.

 

Conserving and using tools from the past has emotional and ecological value. It can also be interpreted as a counter-cultural statement against the values of a consumerist, throw-away society.