Battle Of The Flexes

[Bo Bo Olson]

""""Bo bo has plenty of steel flexes though, all semi to easy full flexes, don't know if he has any wet noodle steel nib."""

 

Don't know what to think. I really don't think I have that many...but I do have some steel nibs in my nib box that have not been properly tested....needed to have wet, medium and dry inks, and a few assorted papers. Both of the latter I finally got.

 

 

Living in Germany and getting lucky on German Ebay. Some of the steel nibs I got were accidental in I was chasing make and model ...in as a noobie, I bought the 'gold' myth.

 

I had not realized how good, Bock and Degussa nibs were/can be until I found out Degussa bought up Osmia's nib making machinery in @ 1932.

 

 

Osmia had some real nice steel semi-flex and Supra nibs that were 'maxi-semi-flex/'flexi'. Of course there is variation. I have one regular Osmia mdl 63 (steel # 3 nib that is 'maxi-semi-flex/'flexi' (narrow) BBL/OBB that is giving my 'best' nib a MB 234 1/2 deluxe 14 K KOB '55 a real run for the money. (The 'fat' BBL nib also.) The only thing that is keeping the 234 1/2 leading is the girth and back weighting balance of the pen.

The O-F-C, Osmia-Faber-Castell 883...appears to be slightly back weighted...and I wonder if it has a 'brass' piston. It is a gold maxi F. It too is in the battle for number 1,2,3,4,5 and 6 nib, as is the steel Supra M that is cork dead. I have another ML/OM Osmia nib that I like a lot but can only rate it closer to #10 than number 1.

In my top @ 11 nibs, 5 are steel. As soon as I get my 'fatter' Osmia steel BBL re-corked...It will move from top ten to in the battle for number one nib.

 

OK...that is not counting my steel Degussa Full Flex nibs or the couple of Bock ones also, which at my level are pretty good.

I have not been using them, in my Hand is not good enough.

But I was doing an ink test and they really impressed me and nice writing fun nibs. They too could be top 10 nibs.....of course it looks like I got 15 top ten nibs. :roflmho:

 

I really have to take a harder look at some steel nibs in my nib box. They have been sitting there since 'noobie' days, twiddling their thumbs.

 

Actually now that I have some good papers, I do need to sit down and see what nibs dance on what papers.

 

 

 

 

I do have a Soennecken steel Wet Noodle, but it needs re-tipping. A little bit less and it could be 'used' a bit more damage and I'd not been able to see much at all.

 

I have a good selection of semi-flex and 'maxi-semi-flex/'flexi' nibs in both gold and steel. I have been lucky and like both metals.

Those '30s-50's Osmia and Degussa steel nibs and a Geha steel OB have been battling it out with grand '50's-'60's MB, Pelikan, Geha and Osmia nibs pretty even Steven for top 10.

 

 

 

I do have some dip pen nibs that are from full flex, to wet noodle, to Weak Kneed wet noodle....they don't count here.

 

By the way that was some real great info on steel nibs in 1880.......stolen for my western.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Bo Bo Olson

[Randal6393]

As far as I know, people used the flex of quills to thicken certain strokes for effect, in many medieval cursive hands for example, but scripts continued to be written with a quill cut to an edge until the steel dip pen. In addition, people did not always hold the broad pen at a constant angle, but might change the angle it for different strokes or even while making strokes, depending on the hand.

 

.....

 

 

Wow, this is excellent history. I'm beginning to think that aside from making writing aesthetically pleasing, flex also induces a bit of madness in the scribe.

 

Like most scholars, penmen conduct battles over the least of items. As one writer said, over 30 years ago, "And each scribe leaves the field knowing he has won the battle." It is fun and adds to all of our knowledge.

 

@Columbia Livia: Yes, I had forgotten that Johnston did indeed decide, from a study of writing in the modern day (circa 1900 or so), that many broad-edged alphabets were imitated by pointed-pen advocates. Thus, creating a Roman capital with many built-up strokes rather than a few strokes from an edged pen. Not sure how correct his reasoning was. But if one looks at Noyes' Penmanship, there are several alphabets shown as exemplars that are clearly drawn rather than being written. Many thanks for linking to Noyes' book -- it is a typical writing-master piece, dated 1899, and shows how much Johnston owes to the writing masters for his Writing and Illuminating and Lettering. In particular, the section on how to cut a quill is very similar to Johnston's instructions. Only difference is that Johnston was cutting an edged quill rather than a pointed one.

[Columba Livia]

Johnston did indeed decide, from a study of writing in the modern day (circa 1900 or so), that many broad-edged alphabets were imitated by pointed-pen advocates.

 

As far as I know, there were no people around in Johnston's time (or earlier) who could be called "pointed-pen advocates", though there were certainly professional calligraphers, who used and taught the use of the pointed pen, edged pen (steel or quill), brush and a variety of different tools and styles, around in the late 19th and early 20th century.

 

These professional calligraphers would not have wasted their time in laboriously imitating broad pen lettering. The American calligrapher William E. Dennis (born in 1860) stated in "Studies in pen art" published in 1914:

 

"To pencil the letter carefully, outline it with ink and then fill in, is a decidedly amateurish way for general Old English lettering [...] in lettering for profit it should be the aim to make the different parts of the letters with one stroke and not use valuable time in endless retouching and truing up"

 

http://www.iampeth.com/books/dennis_pen_art/dennis_pen_art_page29.html

 

As far as I know, Johnston ignored the living tradition of calligraphy of his own time, in favour of a narrow conception that started and ended with medieval manuscripts, therefore perhaps he was unaware of how contemporary calligraphers really worked.

 

But if one looks at Noyes' Penmanship, there are several alphabets shown as exemplars that are clearly drawn rather than being written.

 

In respect to Noyes book of 1839 (date is on the title page), I am uncertain as to which ones were drawn since they could all be made by an edged pen (with retouching with the edge of a quill and/or pen manipulation necessary for the Roman capitals). Additionally, In order to reproduce them exactly as shown there (with the shading), diluted Indian ink would also be needed, as it states here with similar shaded letters:

 

http://www.iampeth.com/books/dennis_pen_art/dennis_pen_art_page28.html

 

The German text, in Noyes, would need a smaller pen or the edge of a quill for the lozenges as well. I think it is worth considering that calligraphers then were not so dogmatic about methods as the Johnstonian tradition and did not consider touching up letters or manipulating the angle of pens and using pressure to be verboten.

 

Here are some examples of edged quills in the 19th century before Edward Johnston:

 

http://www.iampeth.com/books/spencer_compendium_1866/spencer_compendium_1866_page41.html

http://www.iampeth.com/books/spencer_compendium_1866/spencer_compendium_1866_page42.html

^

1866

 

http://www.iampeth.com/books/spencerian_compendium/compendium_page141.html

http://www.iampeth.com/books/spencerian_compendium/compendium_page142.html

^

1879

 

http://www.iampeth.com/books/sykes/sykes_page34.html

^

c. 1885. Note that Sykes mentions that in order to acquire the "freedom that characterizes the finished penman" you must avoid using the pencil for more than the spacing.

 

the section on how to cut a quill is very similar to Johnston's instructions. Only difference is that Johnston was cutting an edged quill rather than a pointed one.

 

Err.. Noyes' was cutting an edged quill. He specifically says to the reader that the quills "point should be cut exactly off square and the breadth proportioned to the size which it is designed to write" i.e he is asking you to make an edged quill, with the width of its edge proportional to how large your writing is going to be.

[lovemy51]

my best full flex is a 14k medium -possibly broad- nib that came in my third tier "Penman" [sorry!] Eagle -that nib pumped the pen up to first tier, IMO!!. i've never seen a steel nib that flexes that much -as much as the gold, that is-, except for the dip pen nibs.

 

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n419/peterpaul_rguez/PC220028.jpg

 

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n419/peterpaul_rguez/PC220029.jpg

Edited December 23, 2011 by lovemy51

[caliken]

Columba Livia,

 

I have long been disturbed by the assertion made by those who follow Johnston, that he alone, re-discovered the use of the broad-edged nib. Your very revealing examples show that this, clearly, was not the case and that the art of writing with a broad-edged nib had never been lost.

 

Thanks for posting.

 

Ken

Edited December 23, 2011 by caliken