Pilot Custom 742 Su (Stub)

[Pen2009]

I have a Pilot Custom 742 SU (Stub) and I find the pen often skips in the mid stream during the very fast writing (such as doing a very fast signature). Usually happens for a letter such as capital "Y" when I have a quick up or down motion to form a letter. If you have Pilot's SU nibs, please comment if that is the normal characteristics of the SU nibs. Here is the sample of what I am referring to.

 

For the purpose of comparions, the upper samle is written with a MB 149 F. Both samples are written with the same pressure (ie. no pressure at all) by gliding the pens over the regular copy paper.

 

There is going to be a Sailor pen clinic close by this weekend and I am thinking about having this pen adjusted for better flow.

 

 

なかじまB-STOCK 相模大野店

[watch_art]

I would definitely take it to the clinic. I've not seen writing samples from the SU nib before and I'm surprised at how fine it writes.

 

Does it perform correctly if you write slowly?

[Pen2009]

  On 11/23/2011 at 1:44 AM, watch_art said:

I would definitely take it to the clinic. I've not seen writing samples from the SU nib before and I'm surprised at how fine it writes.

 

Does it perform correctly if you write slowly?

If I write very slowly, I don't detect those symptoms. But, it is rather unnatural for me to slow down the writing speed that slow. In a way, this pen's flow was like a TWSBI 540 ROC EF; after a nib adjustment at a Sailor pen clinick a few months ago, this TWSBI writes very well without skipping during the fast hand writing sessions.

[watch_art]

So maybe just adjust the nib then? Spread the tines a bit?

If that doesn't help a simple feed hack would juice things up a bit.

[tinta]

Hi Pen2009;

 

I believe you have described your nib as a stub?

Your writing example certainly shows lines that would be made by a stub nib.

A fairly narrow one. There is some subtle line-width variation.

What is the width (size? grade?) of this SU stub?

 

All my pens are set up with nibs that are either Stubs or Cursive Italics (from 0.60 mm to 1.1 mm.).

 

In fact, I can't write with the standard ball-tipped nib that's usually supplied with most fountain pens. My nib runs around uncontrollably, like I'm writing with a cheap ball-point.

 

Stubs (& italics) are "position sensitive" to a greater or lesser degree, depending on the cut & finishing of the nib.

Stub nibs are generally the most forgiving of the lot.

Once you find the "sweet spot" (the nib's writing pad) you must stay generally at that same angle (pen to paper), so that one of the tines does not "lift off" the paper.

Otherwise, you end up skipping.

 

I believe that this is what happened with the "W" & the upper part of the "g" & the "9" in your writing. If you are a right-handed writer, most likely your stub's right tine may not have contacted the paper.

I'm assuming, of course, that your stub's tines are in alignment.

 

Your MB nib is a European F (which would have a narrower tip area) & would be essentially a ball-tipped nib. And as such, it would have much more positional forgiveness than a stub.

 

Once you get the hang of writing with the Stub & Italic family of nibs, they are fun to use & can add a certain character to your writing.

They are not as efficient for quick note taking as the standard ball-tipped nibs.

I find that these bladed-nibs slow me down, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

Eyeball, or better yet, use a good 10X loupe & check your SU stub's tines, for alignment.

If they are in line, then you must adjust "your" writing position to keep the nib's "writing pad" contacting the paper.

 

Best of luck with that SU stub.

I'd love to try out what Pilot does to a stub.

 

Cheers:

 

Istvan

[Pen2009]

Tinta, thanks for the comment on this. I am not sure if my hand angle is causing this or the pen has some slight ink flow issues. The tings seem to be aligned properly as per attached photos. When I put the nib against the light source to see if I can see a sliver of space between the tings, I could not see any space. Usually, I can see a tiny space between the tings for some of the pens.

 

My 742 SU is not modified; this is the standard Pilot SU nib (Nib size 10 as this is the 742 model). The width looks a little bit less than 1 mm by eye balling it quickly.

Edited November 23, 2011 by Pen2009

[Leftytoo]

Waterman Florida Blue is a free-flowing ink, so that is not the problem.

 

Looks to me like your pen has "baby's bottom"; I have had the same problem with a Stipula stub. I could see, with a 20X loupe, the inner edges of the tines were slightly rounded. This lets the ink ride up and not totaly touch the paper. A nib guy should be able to correct the problem.

 

Bob

[tinta]

A very interesting looking nib.

Are these nibs only available on the Japanese market?

 

Looks a little like a Sailor MS Music nib (which is a special Stub) except for the narrower flat pad. The Sailor's writing-pad is more oval, your Pilot's more round.

 

Your nib looks much narrower than a Sailor Music, which is about 1.15 mm. wide at the tip. (All of my modified nibs started out as Sailor MS nibs.)

 

To me the Pilot SU looks more like a 0.60 mm. or 0.70 mm. in size, but of course measuring it would be a lot more accurate.

I'm only guessing.

 

What you mention about having no space between the tines could be trouble.

As far as I know, there has to be less space at the tip & more space towards the breather hole, but always some space (except if you have a flex nib).

It may be good to take this nib down to that Sailor pen clinic & have a technician look at it.

The flow might need adjustment.

He should also be able to tell you what the optimal hand position of the pen should be, to get a reliable (non-skipping) line.

 

Looking at your collection, you do have some blade-tipped nibs (Italics & Stubs), but the majority are Fines with some Medium ball-tipped ones.

 

Could it be, that you have a more established muscle-memory, to control the finer conventional nibs?

I am possibly the opposite, in that I'm used to blade-tip Stubs, Italics & Obliques, but find the fine graded standard nibs difficult to control.

 

Your Pilot SU Stub looks like a real nice nib.

Take it to the clinic, then give it some writing time.

If it gets adjusted right, who knows, it may become your favourite writer.

 

The Best:

 

Istvan

Edited November 23, 2011 by tinta

[sessyargc]

Pen2009 sorry to hear you're having problems with your SU.

I'm not having the flow problems you have at my normal writing speed.

I also have an SU but I have the bigger #15 nib, I'm using MB Royal Blue here written at a little faster pace (the loop of my "g"s vanish when I write fast):

 

 

Going to the pen clinic might be the only way to remedy the flow problem you have.

Edited November 23, 2011 by sessyargc

[tinta]

Sessyargc, I am curious about the nib tip width of the Pilot SU nib.

I was guessing 0.60 mm. to 0.70 mm.,....maybe 0.80 mm. at the most.

 

The C823 you have it on, only comes with two narrow-grade nibs & a 0.70 mm. Broad, here in North America. The Broad is not that useful for customization to a stub or Cursive Italic of a reasonable size.

I've seen no "stock stubs" available for the 823.

If I could get a wide, edged-tip nib for it, I'd consider getting this pen.

I find the filling mechanism quite fascinating.

 

Your writing sample definitely shows that the Pilot SU nib is a stub.

A nib like this could work well for me.

 

Cheers:

 

Istvan

 

ed. for content

Edited November 23, 2011 by tinta

[sessyargc]

Pen2009,

 

Can you try sliding a piece of paper in between the feed and the nib?

Was just reading the repair forum for a skipping problem I'm having for another pen and the nib and feed was not seating properly!

 

 

  On 11/23/2011 at 4:05 PM, tinta said:

Sessyargc, I am curious about the nib tip width of the Pilot SU nib.

I was guessing 0.60 mm. to 0.70 mm.,....maybe 0.80 mm. at the most.

 

The C823 you have it on, only comes with two narrow-grade nibs & a 0.70 mm. Broad, here in North America. The Broad is not that useful for customization to a stub or Cursive Italic of a reasonable size.

I've seen no "stock stubs" available for the 823.

If I could get a wide, edged-tip nib for it, I'd consider getting this pen.

I find the filling mechanism quite fascinating.

 

Your writing sample definitely shows that the Pilot SU nib is a stub.

A nib like this could work well for me.

 

Cheers:

 

Istvan

 

ed. for content

 

Istvan,

 

 

I bought this C823 at Maruzen's Nihonbashi branch. I was just browsing and saw it. It was their "tester" pen. It actually flexes a bit causing some railroading when I unintentionally put too much pressure on the nib. I also know from the Pilot literature that the C823 is not available with a SU nib! Even the asahiyakami shop does not have the 823 in SU.

 

 

 

I measured the nib width with a caliper (not digital, so there might be errors), the SU nib (#15) is 1mm across. Without pressure the SU lays out a sub-1mm downward stroke line. With some pressure it lays out a 1mm downward stroke line. As a comparison, the Pilot MS nib (#10) width on a 912 I have is around 1.4mm.

 

HTH

[tinta]

Thank you Rommel.

 

That 1.0 mm SU nib then lays down a similar line to a Pelikan BB or OBB. Just about right for me.

It is too bad that the C 823 is not furnished with an SU nib.

The only other pen that I'd still like to get (I am not a collector, just a pen user)is a Nakaya Piccolo Writer in the brown/green usushi finish. The Nakata nibs come in a great variety & I believe there is a BB grade among them that could be "stubbed" by a nib-technician, if it turns out to be a ball-tipped nib.

For me that would be a great expense (more than 600.00 CAD + 15% taxes + Customs charges, close to 800.00 CAD).

But I guess you can dream.

 

The Best:

 

Istvan

[toomanypelikans]

My Pilot Custom 742 SU nib FP required a bit of work on the nib to get it to overcome a similar problem to yours I believe the nib technician adjusted the tines to allow greater ink flow. To my mild the Pilot Custom FP seem to be set up as dry writers in a western sense. Does Japanese script require less ink flow due to the shorter stokes?

Edited November 25, 2011 by justdaveyb

[Pen2009]

I am pleased to share with you that my Pilot 742 SU's flow issue has been fixed at a Sailor pen clinic this morning. Here are the writing samples. No more skipping during fast paced writing.

[hualalai]

I returned a Pilot Custom 742 SU, and kept a Custom 742 FA, that arrived in the same order from Amazon. The SU dry-started or completely railroaded on push strokes, but the FA was perfect on strokes and provided about a 4x line variation without pressing hard on pull strokes.

 

I was surprised at how little line variation the SU had compared to other stubs I have.

 

Very impressed with the C742 FA, and very disappointed with the C742 SU. Pilot has a well-known QC problem on nib tuning... if the USD 100 to 200 range Pilot pens are tuned. More likely, they are simply sampled. IME, Jinhao and Kaigelu have better QC than Pilot.

[BayesianPrior]

This is precisely the pen I've had in my sights for a few months. I already have a CH912 SF; naturally, my obsession to complete sets and match things forces me to look at the C742 exclusively. I mean, how could one possibly have a #10 nib on one pen, and a #5 (or #15) nib on the other?

 

But your comments have made me think twice if the SU is a dry writer. I fully appreciate that it lays down a much thinner line than one could expect from a 'typical' stub, but that sounds perfect for me.

 

If only I could get an SU on a burgundy C742 - I'd be sold!

[BayesianPrior]

Pulled the trigger on a black Pilot C742 with SU from pisuke2005. Pilots have all disappeared from engeika.com an pisuke2005 was offering a better price! Now the wait begins...

[doggonecarl]

  On 7/11/2016 at 9:32 PM, BayesianPrior said:

 

But your comments have made me think twice if the SU is a dry writer.

 

Old thread, but I just took possession of a Pilot 912 Custom Heritage with the SU nub and I'm having the same issue as the OP: Skipping on the downstroke, as if it had baby bottom.

 

It certainly isn't because it's dry. The nib fairly gushes. Swapped inks twice thinking it was that. It wasn't. Could be how I hold the pen, but I would hate to think that the SU has such a tiny sweet spot that normal pen position would work.

 

The OP mentioned he got it "fixed" at a clinic. What do you suppose that entailed?