Pilot Vs. Sailor?

[River]

I noticed that most of my favorite pens are Pilots -- possibly because I like fine nibs. Possibly something else. Maybe its simply magic.

 

I'm wondering how Sailor pens compare. I've never tried them.

 

Any thoughts? Are there any other Japanese pens to compare?

[myyrkezaan]

I've tried the Sailor High Ace, Sapporo, Industrial Revolution and Somiko and they are just as fine, if not finer. The High Ace and Industrial have the finest nibs in my collection.

[bitterwonder]

I love my Pilot pens and gave my Sailor away. Never used it. Just my taste I guess.

[langere]

Pilot has many more styles than Sailor. I prefer my Sailor nibs, but in terms of style, the Pilots are on average prettier.

 

If I were you, I'd give the Sailors a spin - a 1911 or a Sapporo - and see what you think. You might really like them. For me, the Sailors really are the quintessential Japanese pens.

 

Erick

[JLS1]

i have a Pilot and a Sailor mainly because I wanted to try one of each and oddly enough, they're both wooden pens (Maple Pilot Grandee and Sailor Tagayasan/Ironwood 1911) with fine nibs and snap-on caps. I do enjoy writing with both but IMHO, I find that the Pilot is a slightly smoother writer than the Sailor...could just be me, tho'.

[myyrkezaan]

After reading some of the replies decided to do a quick shootout with what I have and used 3 different papers that were handy (Arc ruled, Circa Rhodia Ruled and Circa Behance dot).

 

Medium: (Pilot Knight, Pilot Prera, Pilot Lucina, Sailor Sapporo

1) Prera (blue)

2) Prera (clear purple)

3) Knight

4) Lucina/Sapporo

 

Prera was noticeably smoother on all 3 papers. Knight a close second with Lucina and Sapporo a toss up.

Fines (Pilot Prera, Pilot Lucina, Sailor High Ace, Sailor Industrial Revolution, Sailor Somiko, Sailor Sapporo:

1) Sapporo (purple)

2) Prera (white), Prera (gray)

3) Sapporo (white), Lucina (blue)

4) Industrial Revolution (orange)

5) High Ace

6) Industrial Revolution (gray)

7) Somiko

 

Was tougher deciding than the mediums and the order would seemingly change with the paper. Easiest choice was the Somiko, by far the hardest feel and least smooth.

Prera gets the nod from me based on my writing angle, paper, ink, nib, personal preference and cost. But having said that, I like writing with all of them and they all get a turn in the rotation .

[tinta]

I would like to try Pilot pens because of their interesting designs.

 

Unfortunately for me, they don't seem to have the range of nib grades in Broad or wider. Widths that can be readily customized into Stubs & Italics.

 

I would get a Namiki-Pilot Custom 823 in a heartbeat (even if the grip section is far too thick for me), if there would be a Music, Broad or BB that could be re-ground.

Pilot may have wider nibs available in Japan, but Japanese nib preferences generally tend to favor the Fines.

 

Sailor also has most of its nib grades in the finer sizes, but it does have 2-tine Music nibs in both 14 & 18 K gold, that can easily be modified.

 

For this reason & their reliability, I've become a Sailor fan.

[myyrkezaan]

I would like to try Pilot pens because of their interesting designs.

 

Unfortunately for me, they don't seem to have the range of nib grades in Broad or wider. Widths that can be readily customized into Stubs & Italics.

 

I would get a Namiki-Pilot Custom 823 in a heartbeat (even if the grip section is far too thick for me), if there would be a Music, Broad or BB that could be re-ground.

Pilot may have wider nibs available in Japan, but Japanese nib preferences generally tend to favor the Fines.

 

Sailor also has most of its nib grades in the finer sizes, but it does have 2-tine Music nibs in both 14 & 18 K gold, that can easily be modified.

 

For this reason & their reliability, I've become a Sailor fan.

 

I have a 78G with a BB (and its really broad), and 78G and Prera nibs are interchangeable.

 

Found this, 823 Broad Nib:

 

http://www.nibs.com/...monstrator.html

 

and from that page:

 

If you would like, we can customize this nib to an extra-fine point or turn the medium into a very fine stub, italic or oblique tip. Also, because it is 14K gold and springy, we can make this nib more flexible. This customization is for those with a careful hand.

Edited November 14, 2011 by myyrkezaan

[tinta]

Thanks Myyrkezaan.

 

I skulk a lot on John's site & he has done a couple nibs for me already. When I originally looked into the Custom 823s, I checked out the page you linked a good number of times.

I discounted the customization referred to on that page, because a B is the widest stock nib available there.

Once you stub that nib, it may get a little wider, but not significantly so.

 

I had a Sailor Broad nib that was very disappointing. Not because there was anything wrong with it,.....on the contrary, John did his usual magic on it before delivery.

The nib wrote like a narrow Euro Medium. Far too fine for me.

 

If I can indeed get a Pilot-Namiki nib broad enough to give me at least 0.70 mm. down-stroke, when stubbed,....I'd be back in the game.

I'll inquire with Classic Fountain Pens (no affiliation, except as a satisfied repeat customer) re: a possible wider grade nib to work on.

 

Although John can do the work & so can Mike Masuyama, I'm not too keen on customizing a 3-tine Music nib. IMO it would be enough trouble just to maintain all three tines in alignment, when in use.

In reducing the (1.15-1.30 mm) tip width this type of Music, I'd think that the outside tines would end up narrower, thus weaker.

But, I may be talking through may hat.

 

The Sailor Music nibs have worked very well for me. I have two wonderful stubs from the "nib-guys" above. After the re-grind, the 2 narrower tines have been equal in width.

Both nibs are incredible daily writers.

[Jezza]

Actually, the Pilot bold, double bold, and cors nib (triple bold) are fairly bold nibs, even by western standards. However, the many Sailor specialty nibs are by far bolder and juicer than anything Pilot currently makes. Both manufacturers are very high quality. In terms of nibs, Sailor tends to focus on unusual tips. However, as a general rule, all of the larger Sailor nibs (21k) are fairly rigid, and come in only one hardness. Pilot, on the other hand, offers both a range of different tips and 3 levels of hardness on their 14k nibs, from the standard hard nibs to soft and extra flexible in the case of the falcon nib. It's not a question of quality, just preference.

[tinta]

Jezza, where do you source these wider grade Namiki-Pilot nibs?

I missed those on the nibs.com site (if they're there) & I have nowhere else to look.

 

Cheers; tinta

[shl]

I prefer Pilot nibs for their springiness. I have the Sailor KOP in medium and it feels rather mushy compared to the springy nib on my 823.

[Jezza]

Jezza, where do you source these wider grade Namiki-Pilot nibs?

I missed those on the nibs.com site (if they're there) & I have nowhere else to look.

 

Cheers; tinta

 

They are usually not sold outside of Japan. I usually get mine through Engeika or Kendo-Karate on ebay. They might not have the nib you are looking for up at auction, but if you email them they can generally acquire the same. Another source is the Rakuten website, which is sort of like an on-line mall of various retailers: http://global.rakuten.com/en/search?k=Pilot%20Custom&tl=. That link should take you to retailers that sell Pilot. Be sure to inquire about shipping costs: sometimes what looks like a really good deal actually isn't. Basically, the only way to get the 742 and 743 nibs I mentioned is to use one of these methods, or find another retailer in Japan. It can be a little difficult, but the nibs are great. BTW, typical disclaimer here: I don't have any affiliation with these retailers, get any kickbacks, etc. Just some useful information.

[myyrkezaan]

tinta,

 

Here is an image of some pen widths as compared to the Pilot 78G BB. The first column has Lamy 1.1, Pilot Lucina B and Sailor Somiko B. Second column is Lamy 1.5 and Pilot 1.5 Calligraphy. First row is Lamy 1.1 - Pilot 2.4 Calligraphy.

 

 

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6240/6346799626_51f3e89f63_z.jpg

IMG_0146-2 by myyrkezaan, on Flickr

[kodemodo_dragon]

I prefer Pilot nibs for their springiness. I have the Sailor KOP in medium and it feels rather mushy compared to the springy nib on my 823.

 

That's interesting; I actually prefer Sailor due to Pilot being too springy for me. Diff'rent strokes I suppose.

Edited November 15, 2011 by kodemodo_dragon

[Leftytoo]

Can't say anything about the Pilot, but I can say something about Sailor's idea of customer service. I recently bought a new Sailor Professional Gear with M nib from a dealer in Hong Kong. The nib width turned out to be the same as my first Sailor, a Sapporo EF (very narrow by the way, 0.22 mm).

 

I sent an e-mail to Sailor in Japan to see about a nib swap. Got a terse 2 sentence reply to the effect they do not deal directly with customers. They did not answer my question as to whether the Hong Kong shop is an authorized dealer. That was two weeks ago. A second polite e-mail to Sailor is so far unanswered; ditto for the Hong Kong Dealer - Stationary Art Online.

 

I've had unquestioned service done on pens from Pelikan, Parker, and Cross. The Pelikan was new with proof of purchase, but the Parker was 8 years old and bought on e-bay and the Cross was 35 years old. Needless to say, I have bought my last Sailor pen.

 

Bob

[tonydent84]

I would like to try Pilot pens because of their interesting designs.

 

Unfortunately for me, they don't seem to have the range of nib grades in Broad or wider. Widths that can be readily customized into Stubs & Italics.

 

I would get a Namiki-Pilot Custom 823 in a heartbeat (even if the grip section is far too thick for me), if there would be a Music, Broad or BB that could be re-ground.

Pilot may have wider nibs available in Japan, but Japanese nib preferences generally tend to favor the Fines.

 

Sailor also has most of its nib grades in the finer sizes, but it does have 2-tine Music nibs in both 14 & 18 K gold, that can easily be modified.

 

For this reason & their reliability, I've become a Sailor fan.

 

The Custom 823 is my favorite pen so far. I compare it with my M1000, my 149, and my Homo Sapiens...everything about it, for me, is just better (though I still love the others). Unfortunately, you're right, you can't find them in any other nibs besides the basic 3 F, M, and B. But even though I don't own any, I did see on online pen shops that you can buy some Pilot pens that can take a whole variety of nibs. Maybe they should do this with all fountain pens, eh?

 

The one thing I dislike about the 823, though, is that you need to unscrew the plunger cap in order for the ink to flow for long writing sessions. I don't have this problem with my Homo Sapiens which uses a very similar (if not identical) mechanism.

[tonydent84]

Can't say anything about the Pilot, but I can say something about Sailor's idea of customer service. I recently bought a new Sailor Professional Gear with M nib from a dealer in Hong Kong. The nib width turned out to be the same as my first Sailor, a Sapporo EF (very narrow by the way, 0.22 mm).

 

I sent an e-mail to Sailor in Japan to see about a nib swap. Got a terse 2 sentence reply to the effect they do not deal directly with customers. They did not answer my question as to whether the Hong Kong shop is an authorized dealer. That was two weeks ago. A second polite e-mail to Sailor is so far unanswered; ditto for the Hong Kong Dealer - Stationary Art Online.

 

I've had unquestioned service done on pens from Pelikan, Parker, and Cross. The Pelikan was new with proof of purchase, but the Parker was 8 years old and bought on e-bay and the Cross was 35 years old. Needless to say, I have bought my last Sailor pen.

 

Bob

 

I hate companies like that. Even if a company's product is nice, it's customer service could really serve as a hindering factor when a customer is considering purchasing one of its products. Your experience alone makes me not want to deal with a company like that (though I may still wind up buying a Sailor pen in the future due to my pen obsession lol).

 

 

 

[nicholasyeo]

If you like special nibs, I'd say Sailor. If not, Pilot would do just fine... Pilot is also slightly more expensive in

my opinion. So far, I found that Pilot service is real slow as well when it comes to repairs.... Sailor also does

not deal directly with customers. This is just the Japanese way of doing things I guess. It's a cultural thing...

[kodemodo_dragon]

Can't say anything about the Pilot, but I can say something about Sailor's idea of customer service. I recently bought a new Sailor Professional Gear with M nib from a dealer in Hong Kong. The nib width turned out to be the same as my first Sailor, a Sapporo EF (very narrow by the way, 0.22 mm).

 

I sent an e-mail to Sailor in Japan to see about a nib swap. Got a terse 2 sentence reply to the effect they do not deal directly with customers. They did not answer my question as to whether the Hong Kong shop is an authorized dealer. That was two weeks ago. A second polite e-mail to Sailor is so far unanswered; ditto for the Hong Kong Dealer - Stationary Art Online.

 

I've had unquestioned service done on pens from Pelikan, Parker, and Cross. The Pelikan was new with proof of purchase, but the Parker was 8 years old and bought on e-bay and the Cross was 35 years old. Needless to say, I have bought my last Sailor pen.

 

Bob

 

I doubt Sailor's US distributors, Itoya, would react the same way. You have to understand that in circumventing the people in charge of customer service, these things can happen. I am not trying to make excuses, but this is just reality. I used to work in the custom sword and knife business, and many of some of the best artisans around were also major d@#&ks to deal with. I put up with the prima donna attitude for some in order to have the rights to retail their wares. Some were bearable enough to me but did not handle public interaction well.