Death Grip Everything I Write With, Any Tips?

[Bo Bo Olson]

Takes all of two minutes to kill the Death Grip and it's little brother the Kung Fu Crab thumb grip.

 

After 50 years of having a callus and nerve damage on the nail root of my second finger joint.

Some one else showed the forefinger up method of grasping a pen.

 

Took me two minutes to learn this way to grasp a pen...and I use the word grasp and not grip on purpose.

With forefinger up, I grasp a pen as I'd grasp a baby featherless bird and the pen stays in my grasp and don't fly off.

 

Look up in advanced search Tripod, my name and in Writing instruction. The thread Tripod was started by some one else.

 

You can do either of two things....practice, practice hours, months...50 years to get rid of the Death Grip, or take two minutes to learn the fore finger up method and never practice again; in you don't need too.

 

There is two slight thumb placement variants of the Forefinger up, one for those who don't post, and one for those who do.

 

There are two keys, one is to move the pen 1/3 of an inch down the second finger's end joint. The other is to have the pad of the thumb resting flat on the pen.

Forefinger at 12 or 12:30 or even 13:00 and that's so simple.

 

The thread has lots of nice pictures...mostly of the Classic Tripod...and a couple of the Forefinger up.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Bo Bo Olson

[someonesdad]

Get some 40 grit sandpaper and tape it to the grip area. Instant death grip negative feedback.

[caliken]

  On 12/7/2011 at 12:01 AM, Bo Bo Olson said:

Takes all of two minutes to kill the Death Grip and it's little brother the Kung Fu Crab thumb grip.

 

After 50 years of having a callus and nerve damage on the nail root of my second finger joint.

Some one else showed the forefinger up method of grasping a pen.

 

Took me two minutes to learn this way to grasp a pen...and I use the word grasp and not grip on purpose.

With forefinger up, I grasp a pen as I'd grasp a baby featherless bird and the pen stays in my grasp and don't fly off.

 

Look up in advanced search Tripod, my name and in Writing instruction. The thread Tripod was started by some one else.

 

You can do either of two things....practice, practice hours, months...50 years to get rid of the Death Grip, or take two minutes to learn the fore finger up method and never practice again; in you don't need too.

 

There is two slight thumb placement variants of the Forefinger up, one for those who don't post, and one for those who do.

 

There are two keys, one is to move the pen 1/3 of an inch down the second finger's end joint. The other is to have the pad of the thumb resting flat on the pen.

Forefinger at 12 or 12:30 or even 13:00 and that's so simple.

 

The thread has lots of nice pictures...mostly of the Classic Tripod...and a couple of the Forefinger up.

This may be the thread you mean.

 

caliken

[Bo Bo Olson]

Calikin,

That was one of the IMO good threads on this.

 

"Death Grip elimination" by Archiphile in writing instructions is the one I meant....

I really got to take ten minutes to learn to link and set up a link file.

 

On @ post # 23 are pictures of the way I hold a pen. The first has a little ink mark on my middle finger first joint, where I place the pen and not on the nail junction.

 

I am stubborn. I keep bringing the other versions of the 'triangle' up; even though there are those who due to dint of years of practice in learning how to lightly grip a pen with the 'triangle' are against it.

After all, it took them years to learn to do that. It took me a whole two minutes to learn to do another system; needing no pressure at all.

 

 

It took me two minutes to learn. I switched back and forth between the old 'triangle' and this new 'forefinger up' during that day. By the end of the week I was using forefinger up 90-95% of the time, with out thought....it HURT less.

First the pen was not pressed in the pressure dent or callus of the nail root.

 

The dreaded Kung Fu Crab Thumbnail Pinch of the 'Triangle' also vanished. Some folks were real shocked some one could actually so mean to a pen as to claw one's thumbnail into it so it won't go any where....but bad habits are easy to learn. Yep, the pen never escaped.

 

Such a strong gripping was needed in ball points, in one had to drag it across the paper like plowing the south forty with out the mule. Bad habits are hard to break.

 

How Ever....if you are doing something 'new' old habits are left outside in the rain, abandoned.

 

 

This forefinger up 'triangle' version, works in it eliminates all pressure. I spent a lot of time writing descriptions before I put up some pictures.

 

I called the un-posted way, the short forefinger up, in the forefinger ends up a bit bent.

The posted way I called the long forefinger up, in the forefinger is bent less.

In both cases I let the pens weight determine where it was in or about the web of my thumb. Heavy pens end up braced on the web of the thumb, lighter pens rest further up the web.

 

 

If you got two minutes to waste, take a look at post 23.

 

With the Forefinger up, you can learn to grasp a pen as lightly as you'd grasp a featherless baby bird, with no more thought than that, in two minutes.

 

For quite a long while I blamed Calikin :embarrassed_smile: for showing me the Forefinger up.

He is innocent.

It was just I ran into his threads and there was a similarity of angle un-posted pen holding, in he is not a poster.

Both Calikin and the other fellow play the piano also....so the usual suspects got arrested. Play it again, Sam.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Bo Bo Olson

[subbes]

Another good way of eliminating Death Grip is to develop tendinitis in your forearm such that gripping a pen tightly causes flaming jolts of pain to ascend your arm and then enter your head right behind the "ow ow ow Jesu ow stop doing that immediately" trigger. You'll research other pen holds and ways of writing, and eventually develop a light touch through sheer necessity.

 

(DOES NOT ACTUALLY RECOMMEND THIS METHOD.)

 

 

(Edited for typo - "Death Drip" is not a pen hold, and is probably something only encountered by mortuary workers.)

Edited December 7, 2011 by subbes

[Tuxedomoon]

There is no way avoiding the death grip, except training. Years of training. I also think its a rollerball era problem. Where I live you learn writing with a fountain pen, and you have to use it in class (no rollerballs allowed). It took me years to avoid the tight grip. But once you are over it, you are forever. I don't like the triangular method, I think it provides less control of the pen.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Tuxedomoon

[Bo Bo Olson]

  On 12/7/2011 at 3:28 PM, Tuxedomoon said:

There is no way avoiding the death grip, except training. Years of training. I also think its a rollerball era problem. Where I live you learn writing with a fountain pen, and you have to use it in class (no rollerballs allowed). It took me years to avoid the tight grip. But once you are over it, you are forever. I don't like the triangular method, I think it provides less control of the pen.

 

 

I strongly disagree. Forefinger up is a two minute cure.

[Tuxedomoon]

...but provides less control. (In my opinion, don't throw stones on me )

Edited December 7, 2011 by Tuxedomoon

[Chevalier]

I think the death grip isn't that much a matter of the penhold itself. It might be more a problem of the mind, which is trying to control everything. The first pages written in a different approach won't look as good as one is used to and this seems to be a problem. It seems important to let go and accept the first pages just the way they leave the nib without trying to control them that much. This is the reason why previous approaches featured speed or flow over form .. anything seems to be a better start than focusing on the form, because this causes "mental cramping" that causes the death grip.

 

It's just like driving with 120mph for the first time. Most people will hold the steering wheel like they'll instantly die if they let go a little. Most people will loosen up over time, but not with the pen, because relaxed writing needs to be trained in order to achieve clear letter forms.

[Randal6393]

According to an old book on penmanship, IAMPETH -- Ames Guide, position and movement is paramount in writing properly. Although this guide is for business writing, the position, angle, and motions of the arm apply equally well to Spenserian or Copperplate hands. The manuals at IAMPETH have been great for improving my writing. After all, sometimes getting back to basics is needed.

 

The "Infamous Death Grip" is transitory, resulting from a lack of confidence in one's writing. A bit of practice and getting back to basics should help overcome it.

 

Best of luck,

[caliken]

Also from the IAMPETH archives -Instructions on Roundhand (Copperplate).

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/Coppperplatequote500.jpg

 

It would appear that there is no one definitive method of writing with a flexible nib!

 

Ken

Edited December 7, 2011 by caliken

[Mickey]

  On 12/7/2011 at 10:33 PM, caliken said:

Also from the IAMPETH archives -Instructions on Roundhand (Copperplate).

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/Coppperplatequote500.jpg

 

It would appear that there is no one definitive method of writing with a flexible nib!

 

Ken

 

I would have said that there's no definitive way to describe writing with a flexible nib, also that what one says is not always (quite) what one actually does. Regarding the statement itself: I don't believe his opinion is as exclusionary as it seems, since the extreme shades often seen in Spencerian are certainly not done entirely with the fingers.

 

[caliken]

  On 12/8/2011 at 12:06 AM, Mickey said:

I would have said that there's no definitive way to describe writing with a flexible nib, also that what one says is not always (quite) what one actually does. Regarding the statement itself: I don't believe his opinion is as exclusionary as it seems, since the extreme shades often seen in Spencerian are certainly not done entirely with the fingers.

 

Agreed - but he was referring specifically to Copperplate and not Spencerian. Also, it seems reasonable to assume that he meant what he said, as his comments are clear and unambiguous. I can see no reason to assume otherwise.

 

I don't necessarily agree with his opinion. I feel that combined movement (fingers/hand/arm/shoulder) is more natural and instinctive and can vary from person to person and depends, to a large extent, on the size of the lettering.

 

I was just making the point that nobody is right, here. There are several perfectly valid ways of achieving the same result - we are not machines!

 

Ken

[Mickey]

  On 12/8/2011 at 11:43 AM, caliken said:

  On 12/8/2011 at 12:06 AM, Mickey said:

I would have said that there's no definitive way to describe writing with a flexible nib, also that what one says is not always (quite) what one actually does. Regarding the statement itself: I don't believe his opinion is as exclusionary as it seems, since the extreme shades often seen in Spencerian are certainly not done entirely with the fingers.

 

Agreed - but he was referring specifically to Copperplate and not Spencerian. Also, it seems reasonable to assume that he meant what he said, as his comments are clear and unambiguous. I can see no reason to assume otherwise.

 

I don't necessarily agree with his opinion. I feel that combined movement (fingers/hand/arm/shoulder) is more natural and instinctive and can vary from person to person and depends, to a large extent, on the size of the lettering.

 

I was just making the point that nobody is right, here. There are several perfectly valid ways of achieving the same result - we are not machines!

 

Ken

 

As usual, we are on the same page. No argument. What I wished I'd emphasized more strongly in my post was the difference frequently existing between what one believes one is doing and what one actually does. So, while Brown may have believed fervently what he stated, it may not actually have been what he did.

[quiltfrog]

One trick I have used with my elementary students when they have strange or death grips that seems to work well. Let's see if I can describe it. If not I will attempt some photos and post them.

 

1. Take a kleenex (facial tissue) or piece of paper towel about the size of a kleenex - lay out the paper on the table.

 

2. With your writing hand begin to gather the paper into your palm with your fingers, creating a ball.

 

3. Keep hold of this with your last 3 fingers, and pick up your pen with your thumb and forefinger.

 

4. Write. - don't let go of the paper.

[liz4tin]

I have the same problem. I posted about it last week. Here's what I've been doing based on the suggestions. I changed my grip to match what is taught in the Spencerian Theory books. But I had little or no control, it was like learning to write all over again.

 

However, I bought a few coloring books (dover makes some great adult coloring books.) and started coloring with my new grip, paying attention to stay in the lines and keep my grip correct. So far I've seen a big improvement.

[pmhudepo]

  On 8/1/2012 at 1:36 AM, liz4tin said:

I have the same problem. I posted about it last week. Here's what I've been doing based on the suggestions. I changed my grip to match what is taught in the Spencerian Theory books. But I had little or no control, it was like learning to write all over again.

 

However, I bought a few coloring books (dover makes some great adult coloring books.) and started coloring with my new grip, paying attention to stay in the lines and keep my grip correct. So far I've seen a big improvement.

 

 

Lack of control with a relaxed grip sounds very familiar to me. Quite frustrating, but my limited experience tells me it will get better.

 

I like your suggestion of using coloring books. Sounds like a fun way to use your pens with your new grip. How are you going to make the transition from coloring to writing without having your old habits return? Perhaps this is not an issue for you at all. For me, death grip and finger-writing has been associated with writing for such a long time, that I still find it difficult to get rid of these old habits.

 

Wanted to add: what seems to work for me, is creating ovals, loops etc. Large, free motion and then morphing them into letters O, l, e, i, t etc. Wavy figures and morphing them into letters m, n, u, i etc. Possible downside is that this might work against properly learning the basics of a writing style where not every stroke is loopy or wavy.

Edited August 1, 2012 by pmhudepo

[jar]

Wider sections are your friends.

[Gcouch]

I slid my hand to the top of the grip and kept it there. The closer you are to the nib the more likely you are to experience the death grip. When I write script, I use the weight of the pen to write and simply guide it with my hand. All you are really doing is guiding the pen and letting it do the work for you. When printing, I instinctively switch back to the death grip; haven't solved this one yet. Try using a Lamy Studio. I feel like the stainless steel grip made me lighten up. Hope this helps!

[Mickey]

  On 8/27/2012 at 6:15 PM, Gcouch said:

I slid my hand to the top of the grip and kept it there. The closer you are to the nib the more likely you are to experience the death grip. When I write script, I use the weight of the pen to write and simply guide it with my hand. All you are really doing is guiding the pen and letting it do the work for you. When printing, I instinctively switch back to the death grip; haven't solved this one yet. Try using a Lamy Studio. I feel like the stainless steel grip made me lighten up. Hope this helps!

 

I think I may have found a solution for you on the Zanerian College site.

 

On the http://www.zanerian.com/Gadgets.html page is a gizmo called The Penman's Ring. The device is a small length of pipe (c. 2cm diameter) which when connected to the little finger appears to promote proper curvature of the last two fingers of the writing hand. With the fingers curved like this, the forearm (but not the wrist) resting lightly on the desk, the hand resting even more lightly on the little finger nail (or cuticle), and the nib resting lightest of all on the page, the pen should be in the proper position for tension free writing.

 

So, put your forearm on the desk, curl the last two fingers (as shown in the ad), ground the last finger nail, and lightly grasp the pen, allowing the shaft to slide through your fingers until the nib contacts the page under its own weight. Firm up your grip only enough to stabilize the pen. (Properly done, the wrist will be flat - not necessarily level with the desk - with almost no bend.) Wherever your fingers and thumb are in contact with the barrel is the proper place to grip the pen.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Mickey