Learning The Palmer Method Of Business Writing

[mboschm]

http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o565/mboschm/DSC_0579_zps60ff9393.jpg

 

 

http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o565/mboschm/DSC_0580_zps41fb664f.jpg

 

 

http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o565/mboschm/DSC_0581_zps2822dbb8.jpg

[Mickey]

 

I wouldn't say that Palmer requires finer motor control, just that it requires different motor control. When learned "perfectly" it becomes almost impossible to write in any other way due to the fact that your arm becomes very robotic. When you're writing in Spencerian you write robotic letter forms, but not in a robotic way, merely in a precisely consistent way. It is, in my opinion, a more elegant solution that works better. The trick to the Palmer method is that one can teach the palmer method to hundreds of students just by their own self and all the students will achieve a certain degree of proficiency. This was a goldmine for the catholic system at the time, and was how it caught on. Spencerian is much better suited to small classrooms where the teacher can catch your every mistake.

I don't think you've got this quite right. Spencer can be learned without much instructor input nor is an expert instructor necessary. It is now a favorite with home-schoolers for exactly those reasons. What Palmer peddled was fascist classroom discipline: pencils up, pencils down, "sieg heil, sieg heil, right in the sister's face, not to love the sister..."

 

Along with the fundamental flaw I noted in my earlier post (weak architectural sense), that certain degree of proficiency you ascribe to Palmer was never all that certain and usually pretty modest.

[fiberdrunk]

From 1887:

 

http://i.imgur.com/lwGtmIj.jpg

^

https://archive.org/stream/penmansartjourna12unse#page/n39/mode/1up

 

 

Wow, that's beautiful!

[thang1thang2]

I don't think you've got this quite right. Spencer can be learned without much instructor input nor is an expert instructor necessary. It is now a favorite with home-schoolers for exactly those reasons. What Palmer peddled was fascist classroom discipline: pencils up, pencils down, "sieg heil, sieg heil, right in the sister's face, not to love the sister..."

 

Along with the fundamental flaw I noted in my earlier post (weak architectural sense), that certain degree of proficiency you ascribe to Palmer was never all that certain and usually pretty modest.

 

I'll defer to you on this, as I'm simply analyzing what I've read and have not actually lived in an age where I was taught authentic palmer in a nun-type of school. Your reasoning does make a lot of sense, however. I've always thought of Spencerian as harder to learn without a master due to the fact that the greatest penman of the age were almost always tutored by one penman rather than learning "in a classroom" per-say.

[Mickey]

 

I'll defer to you on this, as I'm simply analyzing what I've read and have not actually lived in an age where I was taught authentic palmer in a nun-type of school. Your reasoning does make a lot of sense, however. I've always thought of Spencerian as harder to learn without a master due to the fact that the greatest penman of the age were almost always tutored by one penman rather than learning "in a classroom" per-say.

I understand perfectly the impression you got, since we mostly see the works of elite Spencerian penman, but basic Spencerian was designed to be taught in the classroom by teachers with no special training. My introduction to Spencerian was through the copybook facsimiles, just like the ones from which my great grandmother learned. The copybooks still work pretty well.

[akustyk]

This is a fascinating thread. I'd like to pose this question:

 

Why do we want to improve our penmanship and learn the Palmer Method?

 

I've gone through eight lessons and, so far, have focused on movement only. I hope that one day, my muscular movement will be sufficient for the letter forms to appear properly. But, I predict, it's going to take many, many hours, so:

 

Why bother?

 

Here's a little quiz for y'all

 

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag32/akustyk/IMG_7708_zps94372a7b.jpg

 

[proton007]

Motor control!!

Aaagh. Why so difficult?

Im able to draw the ovals alright but the letters are still inconsistent.

More practice is in order it seems.

[akustyk]

Yes, motor control is crucial to this method. I guess my question was more general. Why do we even bother trying to improve our penmanship? I am not sure I know the answer myself

[akustyk]

Okay, it looks like this idea of muscular movement has been on my mind. I love it as an exercise in focusing my mind on movement. I have spent about sixty hours trying to learn the basics of pen holding, movement, simple letter forms. I am not even close to the target. So here is my question of the day:

 

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag32/akustyk/IMG_7767_zps00cb7035.jpg

[idazle]

Okay, it looks like this idea of muscular movement has been on my mind. I love it as an exercise in focusing my mind on movement. I have spent about sixty hours trying to learn the basics of pen holding, movement, simple letter forms. I am not even close to the target. So here is my question of the day:

 

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag32/akustyk/IMG_7767_zps00cb7035.jpg

 

I'd say you already have got it! Extremely nice Palmer cursive! Of course it can improve, but those improvements will be subject to decreasing marginal returns: you will need more and more time to achieve smaller and smaller improvements. I'm on that process now after being 3 months training myself early this year. What I'm doing right now is using Palmer to do my daily writing, which is a lot in my job. I don't call it training anymore, but as a matter of fact it is.

 

Best

[akustyk]

idazle,

 

Thanks! I am intrigued by the idea of perfection. All of the teachers of the Palmer Method (at least those who wrote manuals) encourage the student to strive for perfection. Obviously, there used to be a very real professional incentive for having beautiful business penmanship. However, for us, this is just a hobby. So why do we want to acquire the Palmer Method? We all have different reasosn - mine is partially therapeutic, partially fun - but we have a much more relaxed approach to perfection. We do not need perfect penmanship for our jobs or to succeed academically. Personally, I am planning to keep working on the method for at least a few years and see how far I can get. You are right about the diminishing returns, so it remains to be seen whether I will be able to improve my handwriting or not .

[idazle]

idazle,

 

Thanks! I am intrigued by the idea of perfection. All of the teachers of the Palmer Method (at least those who wrote manuals) encourage the student to strive for perfection. Obviously, there used to be a very real professional incentive for having beautiful business penmanship. However, for us, this is just a hobby. So why do we want to acquire the Palmer Method? We all have different reasosn - mine is partially therapeutic, partially fun - but we have a much more relaxed approach to perfection. We do not need perfect penmanship for our jobs or to succeed academically. Personally, I am planning to keep working on the method for at least a few years and see how far I can get. You are right about the diminishing returns, so it remains to be seen whether I will be able to improve my handwriting or not .

 

akustyk, I think the search of perfection as an end in itself is second nature to some human beings. Despite what I said about the law of diminishing returns, I too would like to reach perfection with Palmer writing. Why? for no practical reason. Why should there be one? The question is whether we will be able to realize when we approach that point if that ever happens to occur. We tend to be severe with our own penmanship.

Edited November 23, 2013 by idazle

[idazle]

2013 January, 7th: the start-off

 

 

 

2013 April, 7th:

 

 

 

2013, today:

 

Edited November 23, 2013 by idazle

[akustyk]

idazle, excellent progress! I should try to keep a journal, too, so I can gauge my progress.

 

Here's my drill and practice from today (lots of pain and frustration )

 

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag32/akustyk/IMG_7785_zpsa0908f83.jpg

 

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag32/akustyk/IMG_7786_zps480ada7e.jpg

[akustyk]

I wish i had more time for this...

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag32/akustyk/IMG_7867_zps09e578e2.jpg

[idazle]

Amazing!

[akustyk]

idazle,

 

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag32/akustyk/IMG_7872_zpsf61757be.jpg

[proton007]

Some great advice above.

 

I've been practicing the letterforms, and the best were the Os. Half a page of bad ovals and soon the the form started taking shape.

 

I think the 'm' is the hardest, because its one of the first in the exercise. It just gets easier from there.

[isoc]

This is a great thread, and very helpful to me as I am starting to work on the Palmer method to improve my cursive writing, which I learned in the 1950's. Although it got better than when I was 9 years old, it never got to be very good.

 

I'm 67, and have a number of letters from family members when "everyone" seemed to write in cursive, with a pen. (Also, I have my Mother's Sheaffer Pen from the 1930's.)

 

The letters date from 1895 to 1960.

 

Here is a sample of my Uncle's letter home, when he was in the US Army, and had been sent home from the Pacific due to injuries in service.

 

Like my Mother's writing, this looks like Palmer to me. Except for the upper case I. Where did they get that? I can't find it in any of the IAMPETH books on line. When I first saw the Palmer upper case F, I thought no one would ever recognize that as an F. But re-reading my Uncle's and Mother's letters, I realize that I did!

 

They learned to write, I'm sure in the 1920's in a public school in Evanston, IL., USA.

 

Thanks, Ted

 

 

[Ayla]

Yes, I realize its been a long time since I last posted, in this forum. And, I apologize. I want to take up learning the Palmer method (again), but with a few (personal choice) letter changes. May I still participate in this forum, or should I create a new one? Also, how is everyone else doing, in regard to practice (or in my case, lack thereof). I haven't had time in the past, to really sit down and practice. I've just been using my "normal" hand. So, it looks like I start at square one.

 

Also, I don't know if I am looking at the picture correctly, but in the book, it looks like the children are siting at sloped writing school desks. Did anyone else notice this, or is it just me? Would it be considered "cheating" if I used a sloped writing desk, or does the table have to be flat?