Collection Of Old Pens

[tijntje]

Hi,

 

I have been writing with a Lamy 2000 and some hero 100's for the past couple of years. The hero's have been stolen when someone thought they had to steal a shoulder bag from my car.

 

Looking into vintage pens now, and my eye caught a collection of 12 pens for sale for 85€, some 100 $. I don't know much about these pens, I recognize some parkers, but that's it. Maybe some of you could fill me in what these pens are, and if they seem to be worth the asking price, I realize we know nothing of their condition.

 

Here's the pictures:

 

 

 

(Hope I'm doing this right with the pictures...)

 

Regards,

 

Tijntje.

 

Edit: Forgot to add, the big pen is for display purposes only, but the seller throws it in with the 12 'real' pens ;-)

Edited November 2, 2011 by tijntje

[handwriter]

If we don't know anything about their condition... we know more or less the same about how much the set is worth the price, just note that sometimes they sell pens without nibs, and we don't even have a picture showing the nibs...

The pens with the arrow clips are probably Parkers, but even that is not certain, there have been a lot of third tier brands with arrow-shaped clips. Number 8, the black chase pen, could be a Kaweco Elite, but also a who-knows... $100 may not seem much, but for that amount one can buy a pen that works, even a vintage pen from a serious seller...

[burmeseboyz]

I like the big display pen. It's one of those things that is just fun to have. The two pens with the two checks on the clip look like Wahl Eversharp knockoffs. I think all the pens are third tier pens. The Parker looking pen on the right has a funny shape to the fletching in the first photo.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Kaweco Elit??? Could also be a Osmia or a Mercedes. I have a Mercedes engraved cap with the cap rings and a similar clip, but my clip says Kaweco. Some one who knows thinks the clip wrong for my Mercedes-Kaweco...Frankie.

 

No nibs showing = no nibs. I learned that the hard way, on a box lot of pens.

 

The Easties didn't have nibs, the Wearevers did.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm300/BoBoOlson/esty_wearevers.jpg

Edited November 2, 2011 by Bo Bo Olson

[ticoun]

the black arrow clipped pen on the far right looks like a Parker "51".

 

+1 about bo bo olson's comment about the nibs. most sellers are proud of mentionning and showing gold nibs in an effort to get a higher price. ask the seller first if all the nibs are present and intact(even better, ask for a pic of all the nibs).

[tijntje]

Kaweco Elit??? Could also be a Osmia or a Mercedes. I have a Mercedes engraved cap with the cap rings and a similar clip, but my clip says Kaweco. Some one who knows thinks the clip wrong for my Mercedes-Kaweco...Frankie.

 

No nibs showing = no nibs. I learned that the hard way, on a box lot of pens.

 

The Easties didn't have nibs, the Wearevers did.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm300/BoBoOlson/esty_wearevers.jpg

 

Ouch! The stuff people do to make a fast profit....Thank you and the others so far for the advice and the caveats. I emailed the seller asking him about the condition of the nibs, photos of those nibs and possibly more information about the brands of the pens.

 

Some more info about where I spotted this: it's on a local version of Ebay, the seller is selling 159 other items that have nothing to do with fountain pens, stuff like art deco lamps and door knobs, so I'm assuming he got the pens from some inheritance buyout. That might explain why the seller didn't think of making pictures of nibs or making an effort into establishing the brands of the pens, nib conditions or even the material they're made of. He's also selling a book on fountain pen collecting, 'Le stylo à plume' which raised my hopes that what he is selling belonged to a nice legit collection of pens. Anyway, I made up my mind that I won't bid on the pens without further info and preferably pictures. I know now that I am assuming things about the origin of the collection and about why there are no pictures of nibs.

I'll keep you all posted!

 

Tijntje.

Edited November 2, 2011 by tijntje

[Ernst Bitterman]

The arrow-clipped pens might be Parkers, but I suspect Heros; something in the clip/cap interface doesn't look right to me. I think the ones at either end with the stacked Vs on their clips are Venuses, but that's not certain (its a familiar trademark... but only just :hmm1: )

[Strang]

The two pens with the VV on the clip are Italian school pens from the '60s or '70s. They tend to have an ink window and a plunger fill system which may need sealing but, despite its humble station, mine was a good writer.

[tijntje]

Small update. The seller phoned me today, assured me that the nibs were all in perfect shape and knocked 10$ off the price. I said I would consider it, she sounded sincere enough. She didn't know anything about pens so I asked her what that red one was, you can see letters on the clip in the first pictures. She said it read "duro universal". I thanked her and googled the pen. It was very hard to find info, but it appears to be a German school pen, made in the '60s and '70s.

 

Then later she mailed pictures of three of the nibs, saying the rest were in equal shape and it was so hard to photograph them. Here are the pics:

 

 

 

 

 

So we agreed on the price, I'm sure I'll need some of your expertise later on to identify some of the pens!

 

Thank you already for your help in the decision making process.

 

Tijntje.

Edited November 3, 2011 by tijntje

[Ghost Plane]

5th from right has a clip similar to a Conway Stewart, but can't tell from the pics.

 

The nibs are the thing, the rest is up to you for repairs if needed.

[tmcneil82]

Does the big display pen have a big fake nib on it? I'd probably buy the lot based on that alone if it did......

 

That thing is mega cool

[Bo Bo Olson]

12 for $90....IMO go for it. There is bound to be three real keepers. There could be 2/3's or even all. Who knows.

 

Even if you decide the pen is not worth repairing....never happen by me...it gets put in the day it rain's money drawer....It could well be some of the pens have good nibs.

 

Many to most German pens of the '50s-65 had semi-flex nibs.

Italian nibs have a good reputation also.

 

That mottled one is worth chasing....IMO looks real vintage pretty.

 

Go for it.

[Lexaf]

 

 

Hallo Tijntje,

 

I'll try to add my two cents to the identification of the lot.

First, I know the seller. I bought some nice material from them some time ago.

 

From left to right:

 

1) is a nameless, probably French made celluloid button filler from the '30's. I own two similar ones in a different pattern and guess what: they came from the same seller.

2) is simple Italian school pen from the 50's with a syringe filler. Alu cap cheap plastic barrel, hooded steel untipped nib.

3) Is almost for sure a 1950's German Böhler button filler. Should have a 14K nib when original.

4) Could maybe be a Parker 51, but I think it's an Italian 51 clone, maybe GP steel cap, furthermore comparable to # 2.

5) Duro Universal? Almost for sure a small brand German school pen from the '50's

6 & 7) Italian school pen, see # 2

8) Looks German, nice chased material, could be black celluloid or early black resin. Cannot see the filling system from this picture, but could be a piston filler. Interesting pen. Probably gold nib.

9 10 11 & 12) Again some Italian 'school pens'. Much like # 2, # 12 probably made from a better quality material.

 

The giant pen is of course an interesting conversation piece. I have seen these before and it has probably a ballpoint hidden inside. Will look nice as an eye catcher with the other pens in your collection

 

Pens 1, 3 and 8 are probably the most interesting of the lot. All in all I got the impression you will pay a good price for this lot!

 

Enjoy!

 

Greetings from Rijswijk,

Lexaf

Edited November 4, 2011 by Lexaf

[Bullwinkle]

if they are local and she seemed nice on the phone maybe you could take a look in person?

[tijntje]

if they are local and she seemed nice on the phone maybe you could take a look in person?

 

I would, of course, but she's from the other end of this small country, some 225 kms. The price doesn't justify the trip.

[tijntje]

 

 

Hallo Tijntje,

 

I'll try to add my two cents to the identification of the lot.

First, I know the seller. I bought some nice material from them some time ago.

 

From left to right:

 

1) is a nameless, probably French made celluloid button filler from the '30's. I own two similar ones in a different pattern and guess what: they came from the same seller.

2) is simple Italian school pen from the 50's with a syringe filler. Alu cap cheap plastic barrel, hooded steel untipped nib.

3) Is almost for sure a 1950's German Böhler button filler. Should have a 14K nib when original.

4) Could maybe be a Parker 51, but I think it's an Italian 51 clone, maybe GP steel cap, furthermore comparable to # 2.

5) Duro Universal? Almost for sure a small brand German school pen from the '50's

6 & 7) Italian school pen, see # 2

8) Looks German, nice chased material, could be black celluloid or early black resin. Cannot see the filling system from this picture, but could be a piston filler. Interesting pen. Probably gold nib.

9 10 11 & 12) Again some Italian 'school pens'. Much like # 2, # 12 probably made from a better quality material.

 

The giant pen is of course an interesting conversation piece. I have seen these before and it has probably a ballpoint hidden inside. Will look nice as an eye catcher with the other pens in your collection

 

Pens 1, 3 and 8 are probably the most interesting of the lot. All in all I got the impression you will pay a good price for this lot!

 

Enjoy!

 

Greetings from Rijswijk,

Lexaf

 

Thanks for the help in identifying the pens! They are in the mail, with a bit of luck they'll be here tomorrow. To be honest, I would be thrilled with 3 of them really interesting for the price, I also have my hopes up for number 8, but was also half hoping that maybe 4 and 12 were real Parkers though I'm unable to tell which type they should be, the clips don't look like 51 clips at least.

 

Thanks again, Tijntje.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

I have a 1950 Columbus a good Italian pen, with an arrow clip, that any one can use, in Parker did not try to 'copyright' it.

More than likely because they did not 'copyright', they got it then from some third tier pen of the time.

[Lexaf]

I have a 1950 Columbus a good Italian pen, with an arrow clip, that any one can use, in Parker did not try to 'copyright' it.

More than likely because they did not 'copyright', they got it then from some third tier pen of the time.

 

The problem with the 1950's Italian Parker clones is that there are so many of them. Most of these pens were inspired by the '51'. Long barrel, tapered section with hooded nib, the typical double ring and the metal cap with Parker arrow style clip. But inside they are quite not to say totally different.

 

Dozens of brands and labels exist, almost all of the brands are not or in the best case poorly documented. The quality of these different pen brands varies tremendously. From the cheapest hard pvc plastic, with a sort of gold colored plastic or cheap aluminum caps with poor finishing to excellently constructed writers, made from nice resin plastics and well made steel caps.

 

The 'el cheapo's' are most of the time also characterized with having very poor quality nibs, untipped, friction fitted in some crummy soft plastic little tube that is hidden under the hard plastic section. A very characteristic feature of most of these so called Italian school pens is the transparent plastic syringe type filler that you find when you unscrew the barrel. Where there is the well known Airometric filler in the genuine P51's the Italian pens used a much more simple and cheaper system, the syringe. Also here you will find large differences in the quality of the used material.

 

The Columbus pens, like the one Bo Bo owns are of a different class. Columbus was a brand that existed already a long time (from the early '20's). It is one of the lesser known and lesser recognized brands in the Italian high end market and although also Columbus made some Parker 51 inspired models in the 50's - and who did not? - they are of a totally different quality segment than the pens OP showed in the picture. Columbus pens are very rare collectors items and quite expensive and so it will be very unlikely that one of her pens would be a Columbus. I wish I owned one, I'd gladly trade one for a P51!.

 

Another comparison: the (in)famous Chinese P51 clones, like the Hero 616, sometimes for sale on the Bay for just a few dollars a piece, are -most of the time - of a far better quality than these Italian syringe fillers. The Italians are interesting pens, IMHO, but more from the collectors POV of than the user/writer....

 

I do own some of these El Cheapo Italian P51 clone's, actually I have had a lot of them. I sold most of them, there are specialized collectors for these type of pens, so I think they found a better home there then in my junk pen drawer.

 

Here are some pictures to illustrate my story.

 

A Parker 51?

 

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7493/img7590t.jpg

 

Is that a Parker 51?

 

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/143/img7591x.jpg

 

Definitely NOT a Parker 51!

 

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8151/img7592eu.jpg

 

A 1950's display box of Italian 'El Cheapo's'

Nice collectors Item, but I cannot imagine anyone can write with it...

 

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2650/img7593c.jpg