Learning Spencerian...

[myyrkezaan]

How did you create these templets? Do you have a whole set you could upload? I'd like to give them a try. Smaller would be better (at least for me). The loops on the 0.5 ones are huge. Or are they this way by design because you're working the whole arm?

 

Cheers,

- Steve

 

Learning whole arm movement, started with 0.5, but I didn't have the loops at the beginning. I have each shape saved and some pages with 0.4, 0.3 and 0.2. That was about as far as I had gotten at the time, haven't been back to create more shapes yet. I created the shapes by copying images of the oval, up slope, u shape, tear drop and L loop and created beziere curves on top of them. Every shape after that is a partial, manipulation or combination of the previous base shapes.

 

Those 2 sheets are my test sheets to see how I'm doing. I have pages for each shape that have as many as I can squeeze in horizontally and vertically.

 

If you like I can upload those pages as well as differing sizes.

[nunez]

Yes, please upload! If you had these in PDF format, then you could scale infinitely up and down without loss of resolution (i.e. you'd only need one file for each type). I think these would be quite useful for practice.

 

Now if I can just find some copy books....

 

- SteveN

 

How did you create these templets? Do you have a whole set you could upload? I'd like to give them a try. Smaller would be better (at least for me). The loops on the 0.5 ones are huge. Or are they this way by design because you're working the whole arm?

 

Cheers,

- Steve

 

Learning whole arm movement, started with 0.5, but I didn't have the loops at the beginning. I have each shape saved and some pages with 0.4, 0.3 and 0.2. That was about as far as I had gotten at the time, haven't been back to create more shapes yet. I created the shapes by copying images of the oval, up slope, u shape, tear drop and L loop and created beziere curves on top of them. Every shape after that is a partial, manipulation or combination of the previous base shapes.

 

Those 2 sheets are my test sheets to see how I'm doing. I have pages for each shape that have as many as I can squeeze in horizontally and vertically.

 

If you like I can upload those pages as well as differing sizes.

[myyrkezaan]

Yes, please upload! If you had these in PDF format, then you could scale infinitely up and down without loss of resolution (i.e. you'd only need one file for each type). I think these would be quite useful for practice.

 

Now if I can just find some copy books....

 

- SteveN

 

Exporting to PDF is not a problem, wouldn't the ratio be thrown if scaling and how is it different than doing it with an image?

[htom]

Yes, please upload! If you had these in PDF format, then you could scale infinitely up and down without loss of resolution (i.e. you'd only need one file for each type). I think these would be quite useful for practice.

 

Now if I can just find some copy books....

 

- SteveN

 

Exporting to PDF is not a problem, wouldn't the ratio be thrown if scaling and how is it different than doing it with an image?

 

Could you export (or convert, inkscape.org is one) to .svg? That's a general scalable image format.

 

They're very well done. Thank you for sharing them.

[nunez]

As long as you shrink/enlarge 'square' (equally along all dimensions), the ratios should not be affected. I think. Worth a try.

 

SGV is another vector format, often supported by browsers; same thing. It's the 'vector' bit that makes it scalable.

 

Yes, please upload! If you had these in PDF format, then you could scale infinitely up and down without loss of resolution (i.e. you'd only need one file for each type). I think these would be quite useful for practice.

 

Now if I can just find some copy books....

 

- SteveN

 

Exporting to PDF is not a problem, wouldn't the ratio be thrown if scaling and how is it different than doing it with an image?

Edited April 1, 2012 by nunez

[nunez]

Following up to my own reply, I realise that while you can shrink the figures, there will be a lot of empty space on a page, so you're probably correct in needing multiple sheets. The ones with smaller figures will have more on a page....

 

 

 

As long as you shrink/enlarge 'square' (equally along all dimensions), the ratios should not be affected. I think. Worth a try.

 

SGV is another vector format, often supported by browsers; same thing. It's the 'vector' bit that makes it scalable.

 

Yes, please upload! If you had these in PDF format, then you could scale infinitely up and down without loss of resolution (i.e. you'd only need one file for each type). I think these would be quite useful for practice.

 

Now if I can just find some copy books....

 

- SteveN

 

Exporting to PDF is not a problem, wouldn't the ratio be thrown if scaling and how is it different than doing it with an image?

[myyrkezaan]

Following up to my own reply, I realise that while you can shrink the figures, there will be a lot of empty space on a page, so you're probably correct in needing multiple sheets. The ones with smaller figures will have more on a page....

 

There is that, if you like I can zip up the pages when I'm done and host them somewhere, they are done in LibreOffice Draw.

 

I was going to eventually put the pages I created either as PDFs or images on Flickr with the ones you saw.

[nunez]

Would love to see the pages! I need the practice. Is there anyplace that can host them now? I don't have a website myself.

 

Following up to my own reply, I realise that while you can shrink the figures, there will be a lot of empty space on a page, so you're probably correct in needing multiple sheets. The ones with smaller figures will have more on a page....

 

There is that, if you like I can zip up the pages when I'm done and host them somewhere, they are done in LibreOffice Draw.

 

I was going to eventually put the pages I created either as PDFs or images on Flickr with the ones you saw.

[Deviazione]

The Nikko G nib is a nib Michael Sull recommends for unstressed or lightly stressed Spencerian. In fact, the holder I recently purchased from him arrived perfectly adjusted (for me) with a G already loaded.

 

The only piece of advice I would offer you right now is to attend to the rhythm of the strokes. Doing this definitely helps me. Whenever my letter forms start degenerating, it's almost always because the 'music' of the nib is being rushed.

 

I'm in. Little late to the party but that's the story of my life. I may not be looking in the right place - but checked all the likely suspects including our friend google. Does Michael Sull have a site he sells The Nikko etc. on? Can't seem to locate. User error most likely.

[Mickey]

The Nikko G nib is a nib Michael Sull recommends for unstressed or lightly stressed Spencerian. In fact, the holder I recently purchased from him arrived perfectly adjusted (for me) with a G already loaded.

 

The only piece of advice I would offer you right now is to attend to the rhythm of the strokes. Doing this definitely helps me. Whenever my letter forms start degenerating, it's almost always because the 'music' of the nib is being rushed.

 

I'm in. Little late to the party but that's the story of my life. I may not be looking in the right place - but checked all the likely suspects including our friend google. Does Michael Sull have a site he sells The Nikko etc. on? Can't seem to locate. User error most likely.

 

For Michael directly

 

http://www.spencerian.com/

 

For most of the other materials mentioned in this thread

 

http://www.johnnealbooks.com/

 

or

 

http://www.paperinkarts.com/

 

All are good people to deal with. Unless you specifically want one of Michael's holders, the other two merchants are usually faster. Michael is very busy promoting his books and other projects and doesn't really have someone to handle requests when he's on the road. Otherwise, he's a first class gentleman.

[nunez]

Bump. Copybooks anyone?

 

Interesting thread gents. Most interesting.

 

Does anyone any sources for downloading copybooks? Interestingly, I was unable to find any, not even on the IAMPETH site. Guidesheets, old lesson books, heaps of other good material, yes; copybooks, no. By this I mean a row of letters to practice across the top, and some guides below to reproduce the letters.

 

I know about the ones from Sull and another put out by Mott publishing, but with so much material out of copyright (like the books on IAMPETH) and available for download, I'm surprised there's no copybooks. Have I just missed them?

 

Cheers,

- SteveN

[Tomato]

I didn't see any online either, but I went into the John Neal's local office, as it's an hour and half from where I live. The people there were extremely helpful. They let me thumb through all their Spencerian books, I ended up grabbing a "Learning to Write Spencerian" by Michael Sull. It caters somewhat to what you are looking for. I use the book and some guidelines, which can be purchased or printed out.

 

If you can find something online, then good on you, but I think it's a worthy investment to buy it.

 

Plenty of Nikkos and Spencerian nibs available there too .

 

(No affiliation, just a very happy customer)

Edited April 11, 2012 by Tomato

[ljkd13]

I've been sort of lurking on here reading about spencerian and trying to integrate it into my writing. I've been doing a lot of envelope addressing in copperplate. I'm doing a job for my wife's cousin (pro-bono) so I decided to use it to practice my Spencerian 137 times. Here's some images of the first couple rounds.

 

Any input on changes/improvements would be great!

 

 

 

http://inkyquillscalligraphy.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/img_5029.jpg

 

http://inkyquillscalligraphy.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/img_5028.jpg

 

http://inkyquillscalligraphy.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/img_5026.jpg

 

http://inkyquillscalligraphy.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/img_5025.jpg

 

http://inkyquillscalligraphy.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/img_5023.jpg

 

 

These are up on my blog along with pictures of my newly re-designed writing desk at: Inky Quills Blog

[timbobsquarebutt]

Here are my first wobbly steps into this road.

 

 

Great timing for this thread. I branched into this style by accident while working on copperplate by spreading the letters too far apart, and really liked the way that seemed to let it breathe. Then I found out it was a sort of bastardized Spencerian, which I'm now actively trying to cop. The nice thing is that it seems a lot of the technique we've already learned pursuing Cplate seems to carry over to this hand, which is kind of like a head start.

 

Total newbie at this hand, but I'm loving it so far. I'm in particular really liking the Madarasz examples I'm finding. I'm looking forward to the progress of this thread as well.

 

I agree... I wish I could wobble like this!

 

Although I am having trouble getting my scanner to work, I will report my progress here. I am working on the below exercises to improve my whole arm movement and motor skills. So far I am having some difficulty, but I am slowly showing improvement. I can write the lower case letters with finger movements but it is slow and it causes bad spacing. Being that Spencerian is meant to be a fluid and fast hand I think these whole arm and forearm exercises are the best place to start. Does this sound like a good plan of action?

 

http://www.iampeth.com/lessons/spencerian/new_standard/spencer_new_standard_image3.jpg

 

I love this drill chart! Just one of many things I wish I had the time for

[Mickey]

I've been sort of lurking on here reading about spencerian and trying to integrate it into my writing. I've been doing a lot of envelope addressing in copperplate. I'm doing a job for my wife's cousin (pro-bono) so I decided to use it to practice my Spencerian 137 times. Here's some images of the first couple rounds.

 

Any input on changes/improvements would be great!

 

 

The main criticisms I have are that the letter 'i' should not be shaded and the shades on the right legs of 'n' and 'h' are too enthusiastic. A slightly stiffer nib might help with the second item and generally lighten up the look. (What nib and holder were you using? To my mind, the ideal Spencerian nib is stiffer than a good Copperplate nib, but capable of more dramatic shades.)

 

Like me, you also suffer from having previously learned letter forms creep in here and there. Mine are mostly italic, yours, copperplate. All in all, though, it's pretty impressive stuff.

 

Welcome to the ink-pot ghetto.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Mickey

[ljkd13]

I've been sort of lurking on here reading about spencerian and trying to integrate it into my writing. I've been doing a lot of envelope addressing in copperplate. I'm doing a job for my wife's cousin (pro-bono) so I decided to use it to practice my Spencerian 137 times. Here's some images of the first couple rounds.

 

Any input on changes/improvements would be great!

 

 

The main criticisms I have are that the letter 'i' should not be shaded and the shades on the right legs of 'n' and 'h' are too enthusiastic. A slightly stiffer nib might help with the second item and generally lighten up the look. (What nib and holder were you using? To my mind, the ideal Spencerian nib is stiffer than a good Copperplate nib, but capable of more dramatic shades.)

 

Like me, you also suffer from having previously learned letter forms creep in here and there. Mine are mostly italic, yours, copperplate. All in all, though, it's pretty impressive stuff.

 

Welcome to the ink-pot ghetto.

 

Thanks for the input. I've been having trouble keeping my n's, h's and m's shaded but not overshaded - definitely a carryover from copperplate. I'm using a Century holder with a Nikko G in those photos, but I've been experimenting with some different nibs depending on the paper.

[Mickey]

I've been sort of lurking on here reading about spencerian and trying to integrate it into my writing. I've been doing a lot of envelope addressing in copperplate. I'm doing a job for my wife's cousin (pro-bono) so I decided to use it to practice my Spencerian 137 times. Here's some images of the first couple rounds.

 

Any input on changes/improvements would be great!

 

 

The main criticisms I have are that the letter 'i' should not be shaded and the shades on the right legs of 'n' and 'h' are too enthusiastic. A slightly stiffer nib might help with the second item and generally lighten up the look. (What nib and holder were you using? To my mind, the ideal Spencerian nib is stiffer than a good Copperplate nib, but capable of more dramatic shades.)

 

Like me, you also suffer from having previously learned letter forms creep in here and there. Mine are mostly italic, yours, copperplate. All in all, though, it's pretty impressive stuff.

 

Welcome to the ink-pot ghetto.

 

Thanks for the input. I've been having trouble keeping my n's, h's and m's shaded but not overshaded - definitely a carryover from copperplate. I'm using a Century holder with a Nikko G in those photos, but I've been experimenting with some different nibs depending on the paper.

 

The G nibs are great nibs for every day writing and for learning. If you can find them, the Esterbrook 357 and 358 are superior nibs for Spencerian. I also like the Hunt 22 & 56 and the Gillott 404 for every day work. Getting your ink flow exactly right helps control the shades (don't overload the nib). Velocity also helps with Spencerian. Drawing the letters deliberately (as in Copperplate) promotes puddles in the lower parts of the letters. Write the legs of the n, m, and h quickly, as single gestures (principles) and think about shading only the outside shoulder. In other words, begin releasing pressure almost before you begin the down stroke. By the time you notice the swell it may be too late to let off. It's about tim....ing.

[Mickey]

I've been sort of lurking on here reading about spencerian and trying to integrate it into my writing. I've been doing a lot of envelope addressing in copperplate. I'm doing a job for my wife's cousin (pro-bono) so I decided to use it to practice my Spencerian 137 times. Here's some images of the first couple rounds.

 

Any input on changes/improvements would be great!

 

 

The main criticisms I have are that the letter 'i' should not be shaded and the shades on the right legs of 'n' and 'h' are too enthusiastic. A slightly stiffer nib might help with the second item and generally lighten up the look. (What nib and holder were you using? To my mind, the ideal Spencerian nib is stiffer than a good Copperplate nib, but capable of more dramatic shades.)

 

Like me, you also suffer from having previously learned letter forms creep in here and there. Mine are mostly italic, yours, copperplate. All in all, though, it's pretty impressive stuff.

 

Welcome to the ink-pot ghetto.

 

Thanks for the input. I've been having trouble keeping my n's, h's and m's shaded but not overshaded - definitely a carryover from copperplate. I'm using a Century holder with a Nikko G in those photos, but I've been experimenting with some different nibs depending on the paper.

 

Today I put in some extra work on shades and 'discovered' something which helps when writing at small x-heights. The tidiest shades come when I press less (than I would for a comparably wide copperplate shade), slow down to the center of the shade, then release pressure and accelerate out. I think the slowing down allows excess ink time to spread and soak into the page (and get pulled back into the nib?) rather than being swept along into the exit stroke.

[wallylynn]

Just received my copy books. They're nice, but maybe I should have gotten Michael Sull's book instead...

[DanF]

I have both, but prefer the more traditional style of writing in the Spencer copybooks to the more ornate version in the Sull material, much of which I find too busy, at least for the capitols. Just personal preference.

 

One think I quickly discovered is that the paper in the copybooks is not at all fountain or dip pen friendly - feathers terribly. I am making copies of the copybooks on good paper. One other advantage to the copybooks - they provide guidance not only in the vertical direction, but also horizontally, so that you can see if you are leaving too much or not enough space between the letters - they force you to think about all the dimensions, not just the vertical.

 

Dan