Learning Spencerian...

[Iso*]

Oh yes, there are different variations of capitals. I believe these are fairly common I think. Sometimes, for your own hands, you just have to pen something that fits within the overall script. After all, if all your capital As look the same, it isn't too interesting, is it?

I come from the ornamental penmanship side of Spencerian, so I am a bit biased towards being a bit more artistic. So far, I have not purchased a single Spencerian print book. I just go on IAMPETH rather often, and study the penmanship samples and try to read about how they move their pen. Its kind of a lot of reading, but you get better at it. I think reading a broad range of texts gives you a fair perspective of how the letters looked as well as how they were penned. Copybooks I feel are a bit limited in their scope, but they still do give you good exemplars for you to study.

As some of you may know, my favourites for form study is the IAMPETH Scrapbooks 1 and 2, and Lessons in Ornamental Penmanship 1948. Though the latter text I feel has been a bit outdated for me; I once found it to be one of the most useful books around... but now I find it limited in scope nowadays since I have seen so many more exemplars. Somewhat. Here's my progress...

 

http://i.imgur.com/cnVeIXF.jpg

Edited January 8, 2015 by Iso*

[Intellidepth]

So wonderful Iso*. Very. A looong way from where I am. I don't think I've downloaded the ornamental book yet or scrapbooks so I'll add them to my to do list.

 

In that pic, how fine is the nib/fine line please and what is the x-height? I was enquiring with Brian at Edison's re his Binder nib collaboration over the last day or so (on my wish list)...

[Iso*]

Thanks... Spencerian/OP is the only script that I have been working on for the past 2 years or so.

As for the books and sources that I use, all of my sources are from IAMPETH. You can find them in the rare books section of the website.

(side note - there are a few sellers on ebay that sell original samples of penmanship... I sometimes save those images for study purposes)

Most of the time, my x-heights are not very well defined... generally, most of my practice is within the 2-3mm x-heights. The sample above I believe is roughly 2 mm. Very small scripts...

As for materials, the nib is a dip nib. It is an Esterbrook 356 dipped in a diluted Dr. Martin's Bleedproof White. The paper is some cardstock sold at an arts and crafts store. Namely, Michael's. When speaking about the nib itself, it is probably the finest nib I own and/or know of. Of course, there are people that know of nibs finer (Principality no. 1), but I have not seen another nib finer than the 356. When it comes to Binderization, I am unsure as to how fine Mr. Binder can grind his nibs...

(side note again - here's what the nib looks like! http://theesterbrookproject.com/NIB%20SHEETS/ESTERBROOK%20356%20ART%20AND%20DRAFTING%20PEN/ESTERBROOK%20356%20ART%20AND%20DRAFTING%20PEN.html)

[DorothyGale]

Ooooookay, so I am jumping on this bandwagon. I am ordering the books on Friday and working from online samples in the meantime. My handwriting is pretty legible, I believe, but I fear the more I am online, the less I handwrite.

I learned D'Nealian in school and, after breaking my arm in third grade and falling badly behind, had extra lessons after school and in the summers from my father, who apparently learned - hmmm, something else, not sure what. I actually was on bed rest for three months that school year, because I fell out of a moving truck, cracked my head open and broke my arm, collar bone and knee!

Anyway, that was a long long time ago and I have studied several different types of calligraphy, handwriting and other penmanship since then, so I am hoping it won't be toooooo steep a learning curve for me. I am left handed, so I am sure that will make it easier <snark>.

[caliken]

This little piece of Spencerian was written with a Hunt 101 nib in a Unique Oblique holder with Higgins Eternal ink.

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/DickensGreatExpectations900.jpg

[Intellidepth]

Thanks Ken, I can see from your expert sample that I haven't been dropping the exit stroke on o's as deep as I need to for it to successfully join the next letter. Same with the exit strokes from higher-exiting letters leading to e's - they need to dip lower than my book suggests in order to keep the e-loop regularly sized/shaped.

 

I've also noticed your choice to slightly shade some alternative letters throughout which is lovely. I had noticed the inevitable words that end up without any shading - long ones especially can look washed out and inconsequential on the page and make the page look unbalanced. It was nice to see how you had balanced that, ever so subtly.

[Schwim]

Hi all, I'm on the Spencerian learning tract too. About half way through the second Mott copy book. Favorite pens so far are the Hunt 56, Hunt 22 and Gillotts 1068. Nikko 5 seems too broad to me and Leonardt princi and Gillott 303 are inconvenient for writing in the copy books. Have not tried my Spencerian no.1's yet.

 

Question: When the old text refers to a "dot" in "v" and "w", what does that mean? Stop and give a press? I can't see lifting the pen in these letters. Sorry if this was answered elsewhere; I haven't read through all the old posts yet.

 

Regards,

Chris

[Indiana.Matt]

 

Greetings,

 

Your work is fine, I believe. I think that for Spencerian-typed scripts, you may want to have your ending downstrokes to be more angular. Remember to complete your downstrokes too, such that each letter sits nicely on the baseline. And aim for further consistency too.

 

Your cursive is fairly good - many people seem to forget that movement comes first, rather than flex. In my exercises, I would practice with pencil before ink. ... There is a reason why back in vintage times, penmanship instructors would not allow you to take Spencerian / Ornamental script classes until you have mastered business penmanship (i.e. cursive, with no shading).

 

In the end, the more free your movement combined with control will yield good script. For my personal endeavours, I tend not to use my fingers. I write entirely with my arm. There are some that do use finger movement to a great extent and have fairly good forms, such as Schin of Openinkstand, or Michael Sull (the master penman). Others prefer arm movement only, such as Lupfer of the old Zanerian College.

 

I believe that you should try many ways of practicing the script. There are some advantages and disadvantages to using your arm, but I strictly adhere to arm movement...

 

Iso*: Thanks for the suggestions! I have had a lot going on since Dec and haven't had a chance to reply until now. I will, for sure, keep practicing my letters without the flex and incorporate your suggestions.

[Indiana.Matt]

National handwriting day is January 23rd!

 

I would like to encourage everyone to post a photo of their best Spencerian writing from beginner to advanced on that day. Looking forward to seeing what you all post!

[Intellidepth]

Question: When the old text refers to a "dot" in "v" and "w", what does that mean? Stop and give a press? I can't see lifting the pen in these letters.

Hi Chris, I don't recall it being mentioned in the thread. Don't know really. The text says "light dot" so I would imagine you are correct in indicating either very slight pressure, or at least a definite stop so a hint more ink lays down, or, in my case with a fp, I tend to do a slight tiny round wiggle before the next stroke. It's also used in r and s on page 27.

[Tojusi]

Add one more fool to this. I ordered the Spencerian theory and copy books yesterday. I hope to do this with a pencil and maybe with a flexible fountain pen. Not looking to fall down yet another rabbit hole of crazy (=oblique holder dip pens) in addition to fountain pens...

 

I have had the theory and copy books for about a week now. I have not yet started with them - busy with other stuff, plus got side tracked trying to polish up my italic after re-revierwing my "Write Now" book.

[Schwim]

Hi Chris, I don't recall it being mentioned in the thread. Don't know really. The text says "light dot" so I would imagine you are correct in indicating either very slight pressure, or at least a definite stop so a hint more ink lays down, or, in my case with a fp, I tend to do a slight tiny round wiggle before the next stroke. It's also used in r and s on page 27.

 

Thanks, yes I did see that in the Mott's "s" and "r" as well. I kind of forgot about it, but my question came up again last night as I got the the old-style "c" that is similar to the "e". I've decided to part from that described and illustrated form and use the one taught in Ziller, At Home with Artistic Penwork, Book 1 Business Writing. Ziller instructs to use a "dot" in the "c" but does not further describe what that actually entails in practice.

[GNTravis]

It seems in my inept fumbling through FPN I overlooked this thread and posted my spencerian progress in a thread of my own. So I'll try and rectify my mistake post my new developments here from now on.

 

first picture is my first attempt at the entirety of a poem from The Lessons in Practical Writing, out of The New Spencerian Compendium. Written with a hunt 103. The second photo was done with Zebra G nib, and half of that original poem; I've become enamored with my Zebra G's! Photo two was written a few hours after I began studying shadings and put to some serious practice.

 

feel free to nit-pick I'd like to improve as much and as quickly as possible.

[janiegirl]

My first try with an oblique pen and flex nib!

 

 

I bought the Mott Spencerian Copy Books and have been practicing for about 2 weeks. I've been using my finest-nibbed fountain pen just working on forms and slant and such. But I was so curious about what it would be like to write with an oblique holder and flex nibs. If I buy something online and have it shipped, it takes a minimum of 2 weeks to get to me. So I scouted around town and found a Speedball Oblique pen set. I know it's not great, and probably not great nibs either, but it was cheap.

 

I had absolutely no control over shading, and hairlines are pretty much nonexistant. But still...it looks so pretty! Especially my capitals. I was so unhappy with them using a fountain pen, but with the shading (even if it isn't correct) they actually look kind of pretty!

 

 

[Intellidepth]

Lovely work! It does look pretty. You appear to have a natural roundedess to your forms (particularly capitals) which makes them look nice and uniquely you. I found using my dip nib is harder than using my flexi fp, as with a dip nib my hand doesn't always return to the right position after re-inking the nib. I play with it, but I write correspondence with my Conklin which has a #2 (narrow) fine flexi nib.

[Intellidepth]

feel free to nit-pick I'd like to improve as much and as quickly as possible.

Why? I am in no position to do so still learning. I do find those r's tricky. I think earlier in this thread perhaps back a page or two I was bemoaning how to join o's to other letters (eg, the r), and Ken kindly put up an example. I found his example had a better form of linking difficult pairs than my book showed. You've done well with shading, I can't produce that shape with my fp.

[janiegirl]

Thank you! I was surprised at how much easier the majascules and flourishes are with the flex nib/oblique pen, and how much more difficult the miniscules are. On the other hand, stopping partway through a word or letter and replacing the pen in the correct spot again was easier with the flex nib/oblique holder.

 

I was thinking of purchasing the Michael Sull Spencerian practice kit from John Neal Booksellers. It comes with a Ziller oblique pen holder and 4 nibs. Is the Ziller a decent pen holder? And I'd like to order additional nibs as well, because of shipping costs and time. I was thinking of getting 10 nibs, and I've read here that the Zebra G and Nikko G nibs are good for beginners. Does this sound like a good plan? I'm open to any other suggestions.

[Intellidepth]

Hopefully someone else will drop in as I haven't used any of those. My dip nib is one of those very slim vintage gold ones with a mother of pearl handle - not anything like an oblique with a steel nib really. I have read the same things about those nibs you mentioned and if I were to venture down that path for the first time I'd give them a go first. Never heard of the holder in my reading around, but that doesn't mean a thing.

[janiegirl]

I have a pen just like that. Only problem is the nib looks like it's been bent backwards and there are cracks along the sides. So it's not one I use, it just sits and looks pretty next to my crystal inkwell.

 

Here's a practice sheet I did on Friday with a fountain pen. My miniscules look a lot better when I use a pen I can control. Any and all critique is welcome. Self-study is fun because I can go at my own pace, but it helps me to have an outside opinion.

 

[fountainpenlady]

Perhaps a local library scanner? Or cell phone picture? I've done the latter on here.

You can also post a picture by taking one with a tablet, which I have done a number of times. You don't need a scanner, just take a picture, send it to yourself and then post it as you would do when selling something via the Classified. You can also set up photobucket and use that to post here. Using the more reply options, you can post the picture of your progress in Spencerian using the browse feature; just remember where you saved it on your computer, if using the tablet suggestion, or otherwise.

Edited March 16, 2015 by fountainpenlady