Learning Spencerian...

[hlyuqi]

Yep, those guys were a rare breed. They wrote every day for hours. I've read that Courtney and Maddy would spend hours just trying to develop clever and unique ways to "connect" initials for signature cards; having "friendly contests" between themselves. My teacher took me to the Iampeth page tonight...showed me the "before and after" pictures of several guys. One of them was E.A.Lupfer...his "before" picture (while he was a student at the Zanerian College) was not so good...but his "after"...wow! You can see it here http://www.iampeth.com/images/Before_and_After_Lupfer.jpg

 

While I love them all...Baird, Courtney, Tamblyn, Howe...all of them...my fascination and admiration is currently for E.A. Lupfer. I just loved the way that guy wrote. Classic to the max! And fricking flawless. That is an age that is lost, but thank goodness their work remains for us to oogle. I plan on attending the Iampeth convention in Indiana next year. One of the things that I am most excited to see is the archive room...where they display many many original works of these men. And women...don't forget Mary Champion! I fear I will get choked up in that room and make a fool of myself...things like that "get to me" as I get older and mellower. Only a fellow lover of vintage penmanship and the dedication involved would understand. Its an age lost...so many of these great men and women who were at the top of the food chain; now gone forever. They don't even teach cursive writing in schools anymore. Thank goodness for Iampeth and the FPN and all of you good brothers for keeping the love for the art alive. I'm not so good at it, but I love it and I will continue trying!

!!!!!!! I also want to go to the 2014 convention of IAMPETH, though I as a member I'm new to the IAMPETH family( I joined this year), but I've been visiting and learning from IAMPETH for about 4 years, and it's always a dream that I could one day go to the convention and meet those masters and the great works of the past. But going to American would cost a lot, that's my problem. I'm planning on applying the schorlarship given by IAMPETH, if luckily I could get that, I think we can meet in 2014. It's difficult, but I'm gonna give it a try!

Edited November 11, 2013 by hlyuqi

[shoz_on4u]

Hello All,

Excellent signatures by 'Hlyuqi' Simply inspiring.

As of now practicing with a normal pen

Need oblique holder if anyone visiting India please bring me one (of course I'll pay ) .

Also have a look at my attempt to write this script.

 

Thanks and Regards

 

[dali3464]

Hi Shoz,

 

Nothing wrong with using a pen to write Spencerian script when starting out! In fact, it was recommended to start out with a pencil to just get accustomed to the different strokes and shapes required to form characters.

 

If you're after a cheaper oblique holder, have you had a look through paperinkarts.com or johnnealbooks.com? The century oblique holder is very good for its price point at USD20. Though if you're ordering from them, it's a good idea to perhaps purchase some nibs and ink if you don't already have them to save on shipping from the US.

 

Speaking as someone who lives in a country where there are no calligraphy suppliers (I believe the last major supplier closed a few years ago), it can be slightly more expensive to indulge in this craft. But I find I can reduce costs a bit over the long-term if I simply buy in bulk per order.

[dhnz]

Why you got interested in that paper? Is there any thing special of it?

 

It looks to have a nice surface for Spencerian with potential for nice hairlines. Unfortunately, it's clearly not a widely available paper.

[dhnz]

Speaking as someone who lives in a country where there are no calligraphy suppliers (I believe the last major supplier closed a few years ago), …

 

Wills Quills is still operating as an on line shop.

[dali3464]

 

Wills Quills is still operating as an on line shop.

 

Aha! Many thanks for that! Not sure how Will's Quills slipped under my radar. Though at these prices, I think it's still more cost-effective for me to order in-buy from the US, especially if I'm ordering ink. Alas, that's just the way it goes in Australia I guess (particularly with fountain pens).

[dhnz]

 

Though at these prices, I think it's still more cost-effective for me to order in-buy from the US, especially if I'm ordering ink.

 

I don't know what the costs are for fountain pen ink, but Wills Quills had some really good prices on ink sticks, though they don't have the Boku Undo range as far as I can see. And iron gall ink is easy and cheap to make yourself. For Spencerian, they're the two best inks, in my opinion. (And they were the ones most often used by the old masters.)

[dali3464]

 

I don't know what the costs are for fountain pen ink, but Wills Quills had some really good prices on ink sticks, though they don't have the Boku Undo range as far as I can see. And iron gall ink is easy and cheap to make yourself. For Spencerian, they're the two best inks, in my opinion. (And they were the ones most often used by the old masters.)

 

Oops, I had a typo in my post! I meant to say that it's cheaper me to buy nibs from the US if I purchase in bulk (which I invariably do anyway). Adding some bottles of ink on top of the order generally makes the shipping a lot more cost-effective too.

 

Though I did do some extensive research on how to make iron gall ink. The problem being that there isn't any sort of oak tree in sight for several miles (though melaleuca quinquenervia abounds!). However I did see the recipe posted for iron gall ink made from pomegranates, which I really ought to try some time.

 

Thanks for the suggestion on the ink sticks! I haven't done too much reading into those, I wasn't aware that it was a viable ink for dip pens at all.

[thang1thang2]

Louis Madarasz, I believe, ranked ink sticks as the very second ink right after a proper iron gall. I may be wrong on that, so don't quote me.

 

However, the general consensus from most old masters and people who've used way too many types of ink seems to be that stick inks (the right ones) and a good iron gall produce the finest hairlines as well as having great blacks and are well behaved with nibs, though corroding.

 

Stick ink seems to be so excellent due to the fact that it has almost no binding elements in the ink. You just grind and go and the only binding required would be what's holding the ink together (good stick inks are made in a way that require no binding and stick together well enough on their own, I think). Iron gall, as well, has just about no binding elements. The only ones I could find in recipes were gum arabic and sulfuric acid (though sulfuric acid isn't really much of a binder...).

 

I guess the point is the best inks have certain propertiies and while Iron Gall is the "best", stick ink shares many of the properties that make it as nice as it is, which is why many rank stick ink as #2. *

 

*This is of my own understanding of the ink process. If anyone with more knowledge finds anything wrong in what I said, feel free to chime in. I tried to double check everything

[dhnz]

The problem being that there isn't any sort of oak tree in sight for several miles (though melaleuca quinquenervia abounds!). However I did see the recipe posted for iron gall ink made from pomegranates, which I really ought to try some time.

 

I have been making iron gall ink for a few years now and I still haven't used true galls. I just use tannic acid (readily available through home brew shops, I believe, but I bought mine from a dying suppliers) and iron sulphate (available from gardening stores). You can get gum arabic from art supplies stores, and you can use food colouring for a dye, if you want. Using tannic acid makes it much easier to get reproducible results. I do have gallic acid, but I've found there's no real difference in results. Gallic acid is not so easy to come by – I think it can be used to in the synthesis of LSD, which may account for that.

 

Dominic

[dhnz]

Louis Madarasz, I believe, ranked ink sticks as the very second ink right after a proper iron gall. I may be wrong on that, so don't quote me.

...

I guess the point is the best inks have certain propertiies and while Iron Gall is the "best", stick ink shares many of the properties that make it as nice as it is, which is why many rank stick ink as #2.

 

Actually, it was the other way round. For a long time, Madarasz used a mix of Arnold's Black Ink and Arnold's Writing Fluid. Writing fluids were iron gall inks, and the black ink was probably a carbon-based ink. This would accord with Bloser's description of mixing Arnold's Writing Fluid with Zanerian Indian ink to make the optimum ink for ornamental writing. However, Madarasz switched to using "Korean" stick ink and sold and advertised it as being "superb" and "the best ink for fine off-hand writing". He had a good slogan too – "Buy the ink and improve your writing". Now, he may just have got a very good deal on a bulk lot of ink sticks and was inflating their qualities for the sake of a sale except for the fact that other noted penmen of the day bought from Madarasz and were also fond of the sticks.

 

Interestingly, the instructions Madarasz gave for preparing stick ink talk about grinding it till air bubbles form. To the Chinese, to grind ink vigorously enough to give rise to air bubbles meant that you had angered the ink. Scientifically, it apparently means that the friction has heated up the ink too much, to its detriment.

 

What I like about stick ink is that you can get a nice grey hairline and a very black shade from the same dilution, whereas iron gall gives the same colour hairlines and shades. I find this colour contrast of the stick ink especially pleasing.

 

Dominic

[thang1thang2]

 

Actually, it was the other way round. For a long time, Madarasz used a mix of Arnold's Black Ink and Arnold's Writing Fluid. Writing fluids were iron gall inks, and the black ink was probably a carbon-based ink. This would accord with Bloser's description of mixing Arnold's Writing Fluid with Zanerian Indian ink to make the optimum ink for ornamental writing. However, Madarasz switched to using "Korean" stick ink and sold and advertised it as being "superb" and "the best ink for fine off-hand writing". He had a good slogan too – "Buy the ink and improve your writing". Now, he may just have got a very good deal on a bulk lot of ink sticks and was inflating their qualities for the sake of a sale except for the fact that other noted penmen of the day bought from Madarasz and were also fond of the sticks.

 

Ahh, that's what messed me up. Eventually he advocated it and enjoyed it, but it wasn't until later that he did... I see. It might have been both. He might have enjoyed the usage of the stick ink (perhaps the grey hairlines made it harder to reproduce his work, which was something he was very concerned about) as well as having a nice little deal for advertising the ink.

 

Thanks for the information on gall inks as well!

[shoz_on4u]

Hi Shoz,

 

Nothing wrong with using a pen to write Spencerian script when starting out! In fact, it was recommended to start out with a pencil to just get accustomed to the different strokes and shapes required to form characters.

 

If you're after a cheaper oblique holder, have you had a look through paperinkarts.com or johnnealbooks.com? The century oblique holder is very good for its price point at USD20. Though if you're ordering from them, it's a good idea to perhaps purchase some nibs and ink if you don't already have them to save on shipping from the US.

 

Speaking as someone who lives in a country where there are no calligraphy suppliers (I believe the last major supplier closed a few years ago), it can be slightly more expensive to indulge in this craft. But I find I can reduce costs a bit over the long-term if I simply buy in bulk per order.

Thanks @dali3464 for the suggestion for now i'll continue practicing with normal pen later will order all of the above things.

[fiberdrunk]

I'm looking to get one of those Ames or Linex Lettering Guides for making horizontal lines for lettering guide sheets. But I'm wondering if such a tool exists to make the necessary 52 degree angle for the Spencerian slant. How do you make your guide sheets for Spencerian? I've been using a photocopy from the Michael Sull book, but there are times when you want a more customized sheet. Any suggestions?

[smk]

I'm looking to get one of those Ames or Linex Lettering Guides for making horizontal lines for lettering guide sheets. But I'm wondering if such a tool exists to make the necessary 52 degree angle for the Spencerian slant. How do you make your guide sheets for Spencerian? I've been using a photocopy from the Michael Sull book, but there are times when you want a more customized sheet. Any suggestions?

 

I just make some with Inkscape (on Linux or Windows) or OmniGraffle (on Mac).

 

Here is one (in A4 size) that I use for practice Spencerian Guidelines-2,5mm-light-ruled.pdf. They are easy enough to make, I'll be happy to make you one if you give me the x-height and ascender/descender sizes you want.

 

Salman

[thang1thang2]

You might also try these onilne generators:

 

http://shipbrook.net/guidelines/

 

or

 

http://www.allunderone.org/calligraphy2/calligraphy.php

 

I personally prefer the second, but the first has more built in things to make it faster and easier to create spencerian guidelines.

[mvarela]

I'm looking to get one of those Ames or Linex Lettering Guides for making horizontal lines for lettering guide sheets. But I'm wondering if such a tool exists to make the necessary 52 degree angle for the Spencerian slant. How do you make your guide sheets for Spencerian? I've been using a photocopy from the Michael Sull book, but there are times when you want a more customized sheet. Any suggestions?

I've made a (hacky) script that generates spencerian guidelines, like this: http://www.cnl.fi/mvarela/pdf/spencerian_3mm_52degrees.pdf

 

If you need other size/slant, please let me know.

Cheers,

Martín

[caliken]

I could hardly be described as computer-literate. Although I know just enough to get by, I find it very easy to make my own specific guidelines for any script and have done so for years. All I do is this :-

 

In a drawing programme ( I use basic Coreldraw) I draw a single horizontal line and create a duplicate and place them say 10mm apart. I them duplicate both lines and position this duplicate 10mm from the original two. I now have four lines correctly spaced. I select all four lines and duplicate again. Once more, I position this duplicate 10mm from the previous four lines, creating eight lines. I select all and duplicate as before, creating sixteen lines. In this way, the entire sheet is covered in a matter of minutes. I then create a duplicate of the lot, and rotate this duplicate to produce the slope lines. Finally, I overlay the slope lines over the horizontals and that's it - job done in a very short time. After saving it, I convert this master to either pale blue or pale green to produce my writing sheets on my inkjet printer.. I now have a vast number of these 'masters' for virtually all scripts at all sizes with slope lines, saved on computer.

To include greater inter-line spacing if required, is simple. After the creation of the first two lines, add the next line at a greater spacing and duplicate them all, down the page as described above.

 

This is very easy to do. Intermediate sizes are absolutely no problem. For example, if I have an Italic sheet with an x height of 8mm and I want to write at an x height of 8.5mm I just locate my file copy and enlarge it to 106.2%. After use, I remember to file it as a new 'master'. A typical entry in my system index reads -

 

Italic 8% 6.5mm spaced 9mm. Landscape

 

Ken

Edited November 25, 2013 by caliken

[fiberdrunk]

Thank you smk, thang1thang2, mvarela and caliken! You are all so awesome! Now to gleefully print off some sheets...

[MusinkMan]

Spencerian practice...just some Beatles lyrics.

 

%5BIMG%5Dhttps://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/imgs/fpn_1387743592__s2.jpg

 

Why does the BBCode not work for me?

Edited December 22, 2013 by MusinkMan