Learning Spencerian...

[Mickey]

But.. on the bottle it says to shake for best and darkest colors!

 

And also no, the mold in my ink isn't just some floating thing. It is basically like a lumpy goo that formed on the side of the bottle. Once the goo formed on the bottom, so I did not even know it was there until almost all the ink was eaten up. Then I just pick it out with old chopsticks and add water/alcohol. What kind of iron gall do you use? I had most of these problems with McCaffery's (great ink though), but nowadays Old World is starting to mold up too. Walnut ink has been

great though it just happens to evaporate more.

 

No less august persons than Dr. Joseph Vitolo and E. W. Bloser counsel otherwise

 

http://www.iampeth.com/lessons/about_ink/VitoloFresheningUpIronGallInks.pdf

 

and my experience would seem to confirm their opinions. That your experience following the direction on the bottle has been poor, would also seem to support their advice. (The link above includes Dr. Joe's directions for proper ink pot hygiene.)

 

BTW, the water in IG evaporates every bit as fast as the water in the walnut ink. One needs to maintain the dilution of the ink regardless of type, something which just came home to me. This afternoon I compared the ink in the pot with fresh McCaffery's. What was in the pot had gradually gotten much thicker. (It's been a dry Spring and early Summer.) After a very healthy squirt of water into pot and a very gentle stir, the two liquids were virtually identical. I haven't cleaned this pot in a couple of months, having kept it topped up with fresh ink and distilled water. Obviously, I should have added more of the latter and saved a couple of dollars.

 

I suspect the goo you're seeing is simply iron precipitated out of solution. This is the stuff which should have ended up on the paper. Without agitation, the precipitate would have settled out to the bottom of the bottle. Some of this material is always going to be wasted. Shaking only increases the amount of waste. It aerates the ink, accelerating the precipitation. Forget James Bond. If you must agitate your ink, make it stirred not shaken. (Otherwise you bruise the ink.)

[thang1thang2]

I'd like to revive this topic a little bit to talk about instruction manuals and other ways of learning. Now, there's a plethora of information available over at IAMPETH, and I've seen most of it. However, it's not quite the same as buying a book and being able to really see the book in your hands. It's just so much better to have something in your hands. So with that being said, what is your favorite instruction book for Spencerian?

Scin quite likes the Spencerian Script and Ornamental Penmanship: Early American Handwriting (Volume 2) book

 

There's another book by Michael Sull called Learning to Write Spencerian Script

 

And there are still other books out there of various sizes, shapes, and prices. I'm not sure which one to buy, to be honest. I'd like to hear which ones people enjoy.

[wallylynn]

I own the basic 5-volume Mott series.

But I don't like the instruction volume. I prefer the Spencerian key to practical penmanship

 

I'm still stalled on book 2 due to video games and laziness.

[schin]

Indeed I love the Michael Sull book.. they are widely available, look more contemporary and easily understood.

I also enjoy the Mott series books, though some of the letters may be a little old fashioned, but it is convenient to carry around and do some basic practice during some down time.

 

My favorite method to learn is to study the letters in M. Sull's vol2 book and see how the masters vary their penmanship and how they apply their own personality to it. I feel that way one's writing really comes alive.

[Mickey]

I'd like to revive this topic a little bit to talk about instruction manuals and other ways of learning. Now, there's a plethora of information available over at IAMPETH, and I've seen most of it. However, it's not quite the same as buying a book and being able to really see the book in your hands. It's just so much better to have something in your hands. So with that being said, what is your favorite instruction book for Spencerian?

 

Scin quite likes the Spencerian Script and Ornamental Penmanship: Early American Handwriting (Volume 2) book

 

There's another book by Michael Sull called Learning to Write Spencerian Script

 

And there are still other books out there of various sizes, shapes, and prices. I'm not sure which one to buy, to be honest. I'd like to hear which ones people enjoy.

The two books you mention are very different (I have both) and both are useful. Learning to Write Spencerian Script is a method book, whereas the other volume is mostly a collection of significant examples of the hand. Start your studies with the method and copy books then move on to the collection of examples for inspiration and refinement.

 

The Mott facsimiles of the original Spencer Bros. books are a bargain, five copy books and the master volume, for a little over $20. (I have these, as well) The Sull method book is also excellent, but you will want to have his practice pad as well, which makes that alternative slightly more expensive. On the other hand, the ring-type binding makes the Sull manual a handy reference. I don't find the letter forms in the Mott facsimiles odd or especially old fashioned, other than the minuscule 'c', which can easily be replaced by a more modern form.

[Scribe_Not]

Day 2 of practice drills.

For some reason that "can't walk and chew gum" saying comes to mind.

I'm gonna be counting slinkies tonight... at 200 beats per minute.

[Iso*]

I must say that the two beginning practices are of utmost importance.

The oval exercise is in virtually almost all the penmanship books I can find, mainly because of the useful asset it provides: freedom of movement, especially in developing muscular movement. It frees up your entire hand, and shifts the movement towards the arm and forearm, and thus, it will speed up your speed gradually. I am pretty sure you will find one direction easier than the other.

 

The straight-line or push-pull or in-out exercise helps you to master the slant too. You generally will want to have hardly any pressure on any of these exercises.

 

On another note, as you practice more and more, it is very important that you study a lot too. Train your eye to analyze each parts of the exercise, drill, and letter. When I began to do this, it helped me greatly, esp. on getting the forms right. For example, in analyzing the ovals, when done correctly, you will see that along the center line of each practice line, the middle of each oval creates an experience similar to the straight line exercise, and on the edges, the lines will cross, kinda forming a sort of linear 'matrix', kinda hard to describe.

 

Scribe_Not, I see that you are grouping the ovals, but as time progresses, you will get better at spacing, don't give up! I am a left-hander, and I have done at least 15+ pages front and back, with 15 lines of ovals each to get my slants and shapes right.

[schin]

Trying to copy my very favorite letter by EW Bloser.. mine is on the right.

 

[mvarela]

That's most impressive, Schin!

[Scribe_Not]

Holy smokes Schin!!!

 

[thang1thang2]

Trying to copy my very favorite letter by EW Bloser.. mine is on the right.

 

I shall have to try this for fun tomorrow! Is there a higher resolution image available?

 

By the way, I absolutely loved the notes of the class that you sent me thank you so very much for them. I shall enclose this attempt in my reply for your amusement at my inadacaquency.

[Iso*]

I should inform that the letter that Schin wrote is E.W. Bloser's finest work, described by many as the most delicate, beautiful work ever written in ornamental. To quote the fine company, "as the equal of anything ever written by man".

 

It even has a name, "The Madarasz Letter".

You can go on IAMPETH, and it is found in many, many places due to its awe-some skill and accuracy. I found it in The Madarasz Book, in the Artwork section under E. W. Bloser, and in Lessons in Ornamental Penmanship. The latter being my guide to doing this work.

[schin]

Thanks everyone!

 

Indeed, it is the famous Madarasz letter which EW Bloser wrote for a madarasz commemorative issue.. which I struck me speechless the first time I saw it and which I consider my very favorite letter ever.. I am determined to do better and will make another attempt. I inverted the colors in my version.. I'm not sure if his original is actually white on black or they just inverted it?

 

Thang1thang2, you're welcome, glad you like em! Can't wait to see your letter

[thang1thang2]

Thanks everyone!

 

Indeed, it is the famous Madarasz letter which EW Bloser wrote for a madarasz commemorative issue.. which I struck me speechless the first time I saw it and which I consider my very favorite letter ever.. I am determined to do better and will make another attempt. I inverted the colors in my version.. I'm not sure if his original is actually white on black or they just inverted it?

 

I can answer this one for you. Due to a certain scanning process developed in the early 1900s, they were (for the first time) able to perfectly get all the shades and everything in the image unlike before. It was groundbreaking in the calligraphy department, however largely ignored by society as the general mass didn't care for such accuracy and would rather have different types of accuracy, e.g. placement/colour/etc.

 

The only caveat of this process was that it inverted the colors. All images that are black with white lettering that you see were screened with this novel process due to the ultimate fineness of the hairlines captured in the image. If I recall correctly, it was possible to invert the image again for true colour, but it was too expensive for all but the best work...? Not sure on that one. However, the image was originally white paper black ink I can tell you that.

[Iso*]

Thats quite interesting to note! All the versions that I have seen are white-appearing ink on black, even in the guidebooks. However, I would probably have to agree with you. This letter is a wicked specimen, and to a trained eye, it just looks that much more significant. The hairlines I guess were what probably prompted this inversion, but then again, there are also normally scanned letters that are rather common as well.

[Mickey]

Thanks everyone!

 

Indeed, it is the famous Madarasz letter which EW Bloser wrote for a madarasz commemorative issue.. which I struck me speechless the first time I saw it and which I consider my very favorite letter ever.. I am determined to do better and will make another attempt. I inverted the colors in my version.. I'm not sure if his original is actually white on black or they just inverted it?

 

Thang1thang2, you're welcome, glad you like em! Can't wait to see your letter

There's so much that's right in your homage to Bloser, I think I'll avoid quibbling and just point out where you might concentrate in your next attempt, the top of the x-height letters (and features). Take a look at the original and imagine a straight a line drawn across the top of the x=1 minuscules. Except for the 'r' and 's', which must rise slightly about the x-line, all the other x-height features come exactly to the x-line, not a bit above and not a bit short. It's remarkable. Even the r and s, 'respect' the x-line, extending about only as much as is absolutely necessary to complete the letter. I think this uniformity of height even drives the remarkably regular horizontal rhythm.

 

BTW, I wouldn't bother writing anything of this sort if you weren't already doing fairly remarkable work.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Mickey

[schin]

Thanks thang1thang!! That's interesting to know.. I suspected so and hoped so because to achieve such fine lines using white ink would be impossible!!

 

Thank you Mickey, I was staring at his letter again for the umpteenth time and still marveling at what you mentioned.. his x heights are perfect and all letters are uniform and precise and exactly the same as the other. I keep imagining his letters marching out of his pen like little disciplined marching soldiers, all identical and precise..! For my next attempt I will draw the x-height guidelines.. stay tuned

[caliken]

This is a copy of an extract from a letter by Louis Madarasz. It was written here with Higgins Eternal ink using a Unique Oblique penholder fitted with an Esterbrook 357 nib.

 

Ken

 

 

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/Madarasz8002.jpghttp://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/Madarasz800.jpg

Edited August 21, 2013 by caliken

[caliken]

deleted

Edited August 21, 2013 by caliken

[mvarela]

This is a copy of an extract from a letter by Louis Madarasz. It was written here with Higgins Eternal ink using a Unique Oblique penholder fitted with an Esterbrook 357 nib.

 

Ken

 

 

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/Madarasz8002.jpghttp://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/Madarasz800.jpg

Ken, what size is the original you wrote? (Amazing work, btw!)

Edited August 23, 2013 by mvarela