Learning Spencerian...

[MrMGWard]

No drills tonight. Figured I'd have a little fun.

 

[schin]

Haha awesome! I love the final signature.

[thang1thang2]

thang1thang2 - do you mean a sheet with grid lines by exercise sheet?

 

The secret of self-paced study for me is to set goals for every session and then do an analysis of what I achieved and what I need to work on for the next one. My practice sessions are usually short - about 15 minutes. This practice has helped me the most IMO.

By exercise sheets I meant sheets with guidelines, with the principles, or letters or drills or whatever already written on them so I have a printed something to go off on, rather than seeing it only on a screen. I have no books of my own, I have nothing outside of the internet and no way to get some.

 

My morning warm-up or practice sessions both begin with a spiral of ovals, both clockwise and counter-clockwise. I start off lightly shading each stroke, then I try to write with no shade, and finish by alternating shaded and unshaded strokes.

 

If it's a practice session, I might start off working on the principles or do a page from a copy book, typically one of Michael Sull's. Afterwards, I'll concentrate on anything I didn't do well in the previous practice, which increasing has been to work on problematic pairs or groups of letters.

 

I'll make an oval sheet, then! I should be able to use the palmer drills for most everything else, and I'll use the oval sheet and another capital practice ligature sheet that I'll make to cover the spencerian specific things.

[smk]

By exercise sheets I meant sheets with guidelines, with the principles, or letters or drills or whatever already written on them so I have a printed something to go off on, rather than seeing it only on a screen. I have no books of my own, I have nothing outside of the internet and no way to get some.

 

 

I have printed out the first two pages from Spencer's New Standard Writing for use as exemplars. The instructions have exercises for ovals and arm movements as well.

 

Exercise sheets like you suggest can be made from lessons in Practical Penmanship by cutting and pasting a line on top of your exercise sheet. The cutting & pasting can be physical as well as on the computer :-)

 

Salman

[wallylynn]

 

I would like to ask a certain question that I've been puzzling on. In several different types of spencerian books, they'll advocate different types of drills. Some might say to do ovals, some might say to do one type of thing, or another, or yet a different type, etc. What type of drills do you guys use to practice with? Or do you just practice with your words and nothing more?

 

I don't do those drills, but I do them as warm-up. They help loosen your muscles and prime them and brain for the shapes to come.

Ovals for the curves and the 52 degree slants for the downstrokes. Again, this is prep work. Doing circles instead of slanted ovals, or 45 or 60 degree slants rather than 52 degrees will hinder not help.

 

Regarding your lack of copy material, I'd advise skipping the fancy nibs and ink and put those funds towards the Mott books on Amazon that you said you couldn't afford. Then practice with a pencil.

[Mickey]

   

I don't do those drills, but I do them as warm-up. They help loosen your muscles and prime them and brain for the shapes to come.

Ovals for the curves and the 52 degree slants for the downstrokes. Again, this is prep work. Doing circles instead of slanted ovals, or 45 or 60 degree slants rather than 52 degrees will hinder not help.

 

The ovals or, rather oval spirals, need not be just for warm-up. If properly oriented (and executed), the ovals incline 52 degrees, reinforcing that important quality of Spencerian, and the alternation of shaded and unshaded strokes builds tip control. If performed thoughtfully, the ovals also contain the proper exit stroke (counter-clockwise), the capital stem (clockwise), and myriad other critical parts of the hand. Finally, if the spiral advances properly, spacing rhythm is reinforced.

 

I think the clockwise spiral is especially important. Of all the 'simple' exercises, I believe writing clockwise spirals does the most to encourage proper arm movement. I'm not convinced it's possible to write a decent clockwise spiral with just the fingers.

 

n.b., I'm talking about rhythmically spaced spirals, not densely scribbled ovals erratically marching down the writing line.

[proton007]

Has anyone used the Mott books?

 

I'm currently using the exercises from Spencer's New Standard Writing, at exercise 12 currently. Although it gives the sense of the letter formation, it doesn't really tell how many strokes to a shape, as in, where to start, where to stop, or do everything in a single movement. So now I'm thinking I may end up acquiring some bad habits.

 

So should I get the books?

[wallylynn]

The ovals or, rather oval spirals, need not be just for warm-up. If properly oriented (and executed), the ovals incline 52 degrees, reinforcing that important quality of Spencerian, and the alternation of shaded and unshaded strokes builds tip control. If performed thoughtfully, the ovals also contain the proper exit stroke (counter-clockwise), the capital stem (clockwise), and myriad other critical parts of the hand. Finally, if the spiral advances properly, spacing rhythm is reinforced.

 

I think the clockwise spiral is especially important. Of all the 'simple' exercises, I believe writing clockwise spirals does the most to encourage proper arm movement. I'm not convinced it's possible to write a decent clockwise spiral with just the fingers.

 

n.b., I'm talking about rhythmically spaced spirals, not densely scribbled ovals erratically marching down the writing line.

You explained it better than I could. I should start doing clockwise spirals...

 

Has anyone used the Mott books?

 

I'm currently using the exercises from Spencer's New Standard Writing, at exercise 12 currently. Although it gives the sense of the letter formation, it doesn't really tell how many strokes to a shape, as in, where to start, where to stop, or do everything in a single movement. So now I'm thinking I may end up acquiring some bad habits.

 

So should I get the books?

I have the books, though I don't write in them, I practice in my journal. They do go through letter formation: e.g. "i" = right curve, downstroke, right curve (1,2,1) or something to that effect. More than that I like how the books give structure and progression. i then ii, then u, then n, then m, then combinations like iiu, etc.

 

if you're not ready to get the books, I personally like this guide book best. It's *not* on iampeth for some reason. Links for PDF and other formats are on the left sidebar.

Spencerian key to practical penmanship (1866)

 

http://archive.org/details/cu31924029485467

 

[proton007]

I have the books, though I don't write in them, I practice in my journal. They do go through letter formation: e.g. "i" = right curve, downstroke, right curve (1,2,1) or something to that effect. More than that I like how the books give structure and progression. i then ii, then u, then n, then m, then combinations like iiu, etc.

if you're not ready to get the books, I personally like this guide book best. It's *not* on iampeth for some reason. Links for PDF and other formats are on the left sidebar.

Spencerian key to practical penmanship (1866)

 

http://archive.org/details/cu31924029485467

 

 

Ok, I've downloaded the book. Thanks for the link!

It explains the theory well, but for practical purposes, I'm going to order the book + practice books off Amazon, I think its alright for the price.

Edited June 10, 2013 by proton007

[thang1thang2]

I found the exact theory book of the set from Amazon on IAMPETH. It's listed as "Theory of Spencerian Penmanship" under the rare books section. It's one of my favorite spencerian books, although several others are just as good. I think I'll print off the pages you suggested, Salman, as well as some others for now. Once I find out what I need to work on, I'll make condensed pages of my own containing only the exercises I want to work on, rather than several misc ones that I don't care about (I don't need to draw lines back and forth, for example)

[schin]

A lovely poem by Kipling, I was testing out one of Musicinkman's penholders. Written with a esterbrook 357 and walnut ink.

 

[mboschm]

Outstanding.

[Mickey]

A lovely poem by Kipling, I was testing out one of Musicinkman's penholders. Written with a esterbrook 357 and walnut ink.

 

A very lovely hand: I have but one or two quibbles, more in the area of taste or aesthetic than technique and execution. I find the ascenders excessive: 3 times x is the norm, 3 1/2 times x can be very nice if well executed (your work is), but 4+ time x is clearly an affectation, to be approached with some trepidation.

 

The t and d are likewise over-cooked, but I can sympathize. (I spent this morning's practice session concentrating on those two letters, using a walnut ink and a slightly stiffer nib, a vintage Hunt 22. The holder was also one of Musinkman's efforts, sporting a new phosphorous bronze flange of my own fabrication.) More than 2-2.5 time x is excessive, but having a too wide line below the x-line is unattractive in the same way; it draws undue attention to those letters. So, what does one do? My suggestion, go to a stiffer nib and let off the pressure much sooner. Don't try to draw the entire wedge. For me, that means spreading the tines and releasing the pressure almost as soon as I move the pen. I also find that relying a bit more on the arm for this strokes helps, too: the change in geometry attendant finger strokes (the pen going steeper on down-strokes) tends to counteract any effort to release tip pressure. A squarer cutoff would also help the visual effect, I think. Practice springing only one tine at the beginning of the down-stroke. (For me, that means putting the right tine on the page first, then the left, which creates a pretty square cut-off.)

 

All that said, I wish my writing was as consistently attractive as yours is.

[schin]

Thank you Mickey.

 

For this practice, I concentrated at my spacing between letters (Ken's suggestion last time) and properly formed letters (SMK's suggestion). But it is my bad habit to write too small, and so I forgot to scale the ascenders appropriately with my smaller letters! I just went all the way up to the top of the space because it is easier.. I was staring at this this morning and wondering why it's not flowing well. I forgot Ts and Ds are supposed to be shorter, too

 

You are right about the wedge on the Ts and Ds, I pull it a bit too far (same with my Fs) but only because I am scared that a quick 'pressure' will result in a blob. I have tried the 'springing only one tine at the beginning of the down stroke' but never works.. only got blobs! Maybe it will work on bigger letters? Do you do that quickly or slowly?

[terminal]

it's a privilege to listen in on you two conversing about this

[smk]

Thank you Mickey.

 

For this practice, I concentrated at my spacing between letters (Ken's suggestion last time) and properly formed letters (SMK's suggestion). But it is my bad habit to write too small, and so I forgot to scale the ascenders appropriately with my smaller letters! I just went all the way up to the top of the space because it is easier.. I was staring at this this morning and wondering why it's not flowing well. I forgot Ts and Ds are supposed to be shorter, too

 

You are right about the wedge on the Ts and Ds, I pull it a bit too far (same with my Fs) but only because I am scared that a quick 'pressure' will result in a blob. I have tried the 'springing only one tine at the beginning of the down stroke' but never works.. only got blobs! Maybe it will work on bigger letters? Do you do that quickly or slowly?

 

Schin - I find it easiest to learn by segmenting my practice into study sessions.

 

As an example, I will spend 10-15 minutes practicing proper letter forms in various combinations usually taken from sources on IAMPETH so I have an exemplar. This practice will be done at a larger scale and executed slower than normal. The purpose is to establish the proper letter shape and weight in my mind - I call it imprinting :-) This results in my 'regular' work to improve with time without me having to concentrate on any particular aspect of the hand.

 

I hope this makes sense to you :-)

 

Salman

[Mickey]

You are right about the wedge on the Ts and Ds, I pull it a bit too far (same with my Fs) but only because I am scared that a quick 'pressure' will result in a blob. I have tried the 'springing only one tine at the beginning of the down stroke' but never works.. only got blobs! Maybe it will work on bigger letters? Do you do that quickly or slowly?

 

I do the nib springing somewhat slowly, but that's because I'm not well practiced at it. Normally, I dispense with the wedge altogether or live with a blobby result. As I've mentioned before, I write, I'm not a calligrapher. If, however, my writing is for some purpose other than my own consumption, I write the classic, wedged shaped Spencerian t and d.

 

Added: Pause just an instant before pulling. Let the second tine settle. That might make a difference.

 

I suspect your problem may be in your ink pot. I mix my walnut ink pretty thick, so that is performs on the nib very much like Moon Palace sumi ink (which I thin), and McCaffery's Penman Black which I use straight from the bottle, adding water to compensate for evaporation. I also use 'hard' papers, like Clairefontaine and (some varieties of) Classic Crest.

 

I hope that helps.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Mickey

[schin]

Thanks Salman, I will try that. I think it is a good way to improve and to begin a practice, to spend a few minutes on basic form.

 

I am currently using a basic liquid drawing walnut ink by Tom Norton. I have since eschewed iron gall inks because though they are wonderful to use, I have run into too many problems with clumping and mold. All my iron gall inks (and I have tried different brands and colors) develop mold or clumping and half the bottle goes to waste despite me adding rubbing alcohol etc. Maybe it is just the air here.

 

I will try writing a little bigger next time.

[Mickey]

Thanks Salman, I will try that. I think it is a good way to improve and to begin a practice, to spend a few minutes on basic form.

 

I am currently using a basic liquid drawing walnut ink by Tom Norton. I have since eschewed iron gall inks because though they are wonderful to use, I have run into too many problems with clumping and mold. All my iron gall inks (and I have tried different brands and colors) develop mold or clumping and half the bottle goes to waste despite me adding rubbing alcohol etc. Maybe it is just the air here.

 

I will try writing a little bigger next time.

Don't add alcohol! Mold in IG inks is your friend. Just rake it and any floating precipitate off the surface with a sliver of paper and get about your business. If your ink pot does get too clumpy, pour the ink through a tea strainer into cup, clean out the pot, add a couple of drops of white vinegar and return the ink to the pot. Stir once, then never again unless you add water to compensate for evaporation. (I don't even stir then, preferring to trust Brownian motion to get the job done.) Add fresh ink as needed.

 

Eventually the precipitate will get too deep. That's the time to toss the remaining ink, clean out the pot, and start over. My ink pot holds about 1/2 oz. and I do a complete clean out only every 2 or 3 oz. and almost never do the filtering business.

[schin]

But.. on the bottle it says to shake for best and darkest colors!

 

And also no, the mold in my ink isn't just some floating thing. It is basically like a lumpy goo that formed on the side of the bottle. Once the goo formed on the bottom, so I did not even know it was there until almost all the ink was eaten up. Then I just pick it out with old chopsticks and add water/alcohol. What kind of iron gall do you use? I had most of these problems with McCaffery's (great ink though), but nowadays Old World is starting to mold up too. Walnut ink has been great though it just happens to evaporate more.