Learning Spencerian...

[smk]

Schin - your posts are always a joy but this one is a special treat for me. There was a time when The Dark Side of the Moon used to be playing in the background 24/7

 

S.

[schin]

Wonderful, SMK. That song always gives me the chills. If you like it I will be happy to mail the original to you.

[smk]

I would love that schin - I'll be traveling to Toronto next week and will PM you my address when I get there.

 

Salman

[schin]

I'll put it aside for you!

[proton007]

Hi all,

I'm a newbie, and after a bit of guidance, I've decided that I wish to improve my cursive, in the Spencerian style.

I'm posting a sample below, I understand its not a full prose, but just to get some feedback. This is my daily handwriting:

 

 

I'd appreciate if someone can guide me on a couple of things.

 

1) What sort of pen should I use? I currently have fountain pens, mostly Fine and an Extra fine. The sample was written with an M nib.

Should I get a flex nib? Or something else?

 

2) Would it help to get cursive ruled paper? I currently have a Maruman Mnemosyne notebook.

Edited April 23, 2013 by proton007

[Stompie]

Hi all,

I'm a newbie, and after a bit of guidance, I've decided that I wish to improve my cursive, in the Spencerian style.

I'm posting a sample below, I understand its not a full prose, but just to get some feedback. This is my daily handwriting:

 

I'd appreciate if someone can guide me on a couple of things.

 

1) What sort of pen should I use? I currently have fountain pens, mostly Fine and an Extra fine. The sample was written with an M nib.

Should I get a flex nib? Or something else?

 

2) Would it help to get cursive ruled paper? I currently have a Maruman Mnemosyne notebook.

 

 

It would appear that you have not read through this thread but merely posted on the end of it. All of these issues you are asking for guidance on are addressed throughout this thread.

 

So, for guidance my suggestion is: Read through this thread from page 1, as it will answer your questions.

[proton007]

Hi all,

I'm a newbie, and after a bit of guidance, I've decided that I wish to improve my cursive, in the Spencerian style.

I'm posting a sample below, I understand its not a full prose, but just to get some feedback. This is my daily handwriting:

 

I'd appreciate if someone can guide me on a couple of things.

 

1) What sort of pen should I use? I currently have fountain pens, mostly Fine and an Extra fine. The sample was written with an M nib.

Should I get a flex nib? Or something else?

 

2) Would it help to get cursive ruled paper? I currently have a Maruman Mnemosyne notebook.

 

 

It would appear that you have not read through this thread but merely posted on the end of it. All of these issues you are asking for guidance on are addressed throughout this thread.

 

So, for guidance my suggestion is: Read through this thread from page 1, as it will answer your questions.

 

Apologies.

I'll go through the thread from the beginning.

[Stompie]

 

Apologies.

I'll go through the thread from the beginning.

 

not a problem! It may even answer some questions you haven't encountered yet.

[proton007]

 

Apologies.

I'll go through the thread from the beginning.

 

not a problem! It may even answer some questions you haven't encountered yet.

 

Ok, I've gone through the pages, and tried to absorb as much as I can. I hope my question makes sense. Two approaches I can see:

1) Business + Ornamental Hand, using a Nikko/Zebra nib + holder.

2) Business hand, using a pencil (mechanical/traditional) with a sharp point.

 

My aim of learning this script is to incorporate it into my regular handwriting. Which of the above is recommended?

Edited April 24, 2013 by proton007

[Stompie]

 

Ok, I've gone through the pages, and tried to absorb as much as I can. I hope my question makes sense. Two approaches I can see:

1) Business + Ornamental Hand, using a Nikko/Zebra nib + holder.

2) Business hand, using a pencil (mechanical/traditional) with a sharp point.

 

My aim of learning this script is to incorporate it into my regular handwriting. Which of the above is recommended?

 

 

Both

 

Use the pencil for your main practice to start with. It is easier to handle and swing around the page for circles and ovals etc as it will not snag the paper.

 

But at the same time you can also use the nibs to get used to them.

 

There are practice exercises to be found on the IAMPETH site and of course all over the place on these boards.

 

Which hand you would like to use in your everday writing? Well that is up to you really and I am sure you will decide once you are better acquainted with the styles etc.

It is impossible for us to tell which style would work better for you, for example, if you are a call center telephone operator and have to make notes of all incoming conversations then the Ornamental script might not be practical. If you are a Brain Surgeon and have all the time in the world to make notes, well then why not ornamental? If you are a politician and do not want anyone to be able to read your notes, try the Kissinger style! :roflmho:

[proton007]

Thanks for the replies!

I've placed orders for a couple of good mechanical pencils, and have downloaded the templates from iampeth.

I'll be starting once I get the pencils.

[Scribe_Not]

That is the exact page from "Spencers' New Standard Writing" that I imported into Photoshop and traced. It appears your printer is squishing horizontally 3mm resulting in an incorrect angle. My printed out sheets measure 16x16mm for 5 spaces. I will try and tweak the file so it is friendly to a wider range of print margins, but I find it strange that your printer is changing your width and not height.

 

Edit: Here is a copy of my latest practice sheet, not a huge visible improvement yet, as I am still getting used to the new techniques.

 

 

My 2 Cents FWIW...

I had the same issue. But I found that in the Acrobat print dialog box, I have a 3 options; _ Fit, _Actual Size, _ Shrink oversize pages.

Choose actual size and it's dead-on 16x16mm for 5 spaces.

[Flake]

Schin, You're making my calligraphy cry a little. Gorgeous work.

[caliken]

Here's my Ornamental Signature.

 

Ken

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/IMG_0003.jpg

Edited May 21, 2013 by caliken

[thang1thang2]

Here's my Ornamental Signature.

 

Ken

 

I quite like the understated elegance of it. It's not as "fancy" or as "ornamental" as other signatures. It's not over the top, and it (I think) illustrates excellently the main principals of Spencerian. Elegance through simplicity of the lines, readability through the perfection of the forms, and beauty from the white spaces.

 

I must ask, though. The only "flaw" I can possibly see in it is you have three lines intersecting at one point. The 'w' and the two lines of the 'f' in your middle and last name. Was that intentional? It looks nice, however I'm just used to having 3 lines intersecting being sort of a rule that's very "taboo" to break in flourishing. However, if it is a "taboo" rule to break, you broke it in the most marvelous way, as each of the lines are elegantly spaced on their own, almost equidistant from each other and, even though there's "three lines", it doesn't look crowded or messy in the slightest.

 

I must admit, I would have found it slightly more readable if there had been very slight shades on the 'k' and the second downstroke of the 'w' to lend a little more separation to the lines. However, that's just a taste of mine.

[caliken]

I must ask, though. The only "flaw" I can possibly see in it is you have three lines intersecting at one point. The 'w' and the two lines of the 'f' in your middle and last name. Was that intentional? It looks nice, however I'm just used to having 3 lines intersecting being sort of a rule that's very "taboo" to break in flourishing. However, if it is a "taboo" rule to break, you broke it in the most marvelous way, as each of the lines are elegantly spaced on their own, almost equidistant from each other and, even though there's "three lines", it doesn't look crowded or messy in the slightest.

 

I must admit, I would have found it slightly more readable if there had been very slight shades on the 'k' and the second downstroke of the 'w' to lend a little more separation to the lines. However, that's just a taste of mine.

Thanks for taking the time to study my 'signature'.

 

Yes, the positioning of all the lines was deliberate - for better or for worse!

 

Although the K is taken from historical Spencerian sources, I take your point, and may alter the shading - I'll give it some thought. Thanks for the observation.

 

Ken

 

(Later) Yes, I think you're right, and have amended my artwork. I'm happy with the W but I've changed the K - thanks for the suggestion.

Edited May 21, 2013 by caliken

[thang1thang2]

 

Yes, the positioning of all the lines was deliberate - for better or for worse!

 

(Later) Yes, I think you're right, and have amended my artwork. I'm happy with the W but I've changed the K - thanks for the suggestion.

 

I love it! The slight shades on the 'k' add a vast amount of readability to it and balance the entire composition beautifully. The slight shade on the 'w', while still "missing" is entirely to taste and I think it looks just fine with or without it. I just prefer shades on everything since I love the wonderful shades of copperplate and yet the elegance of Spencerian and I tend to have the habit of "marrying" the two properties in the spencerian capitals with the vigorous abuse of shading. After all, you might as well get your money's worth out of your nibs, eh?

 

The positioning of the lines is absolutely amazing to see. Though you changed the signature and probably wrote it over several times, your lines have not changed at all. The triple intersection is still flawless, and the composition looks exactly the same to me. I would have to overlay both images in photoshop to see any differences. Astounding what the human hand is capable of, in regards to symmetry and exactness, once trained. And you've certainly trained yourself exceedingly well, Ken! It's an honor to be able to see your work.

[caliken]

I just prefer shades on everything since I love the wonderful shades of copperplate and yet the elegance of Spencerian and I tend to have the habit of "marrying" the two properties in the spencerian capitals with the vigorous abuse of shading.

 

Whilst I also sometimes like mixing different elements of the two styles, in this little exercise the intention was to write my signature as closely as posible to the models of the historic Spencerian Ornamental Signatures. The letter K was sometimes written with modest shading, but AFAIK the letter W was always written with only the first stroke shaded.

 

You're correct...I made two or three attempts to get the signature "right". I'm rarely happy with my first attempt at anything!

 

I appreciate your comments.

 

Ken

Edited May 22, 2013 by caliken

[thang1thang2]

AFAIK the letter W was always written with only the first stroke shaded.

 

 

I did some research really quickly and I've discovered that you are indeed correct. For some reason I thought that there were examples that had both down strokes shaded. That's not the case. Even in the most flamboyantly and flagrantly shaded work of Louis madarasz, he only gently shaded the second line, and it was not the line I would have shaded, it was the exit line to add body and balance to the letter as the shades were so incredibly dramatic.

 

Neither copperplate, nor italian copperplate, nor anything by the zanerians or the spencers or anything from the simplest designs to so elaborate you can hardly read it was there ever a capital 'w' that was shaded in such a manner. Only a copperplate 'w' is shaded so. I guess we really do learn something new every day!

 

I wrote something quickly, yesterday, in Spencerian. Unfortunately I messed up the 'w' by shading it in such a manner. Oh well. No guidelines were used, either. It was just a spur of the moment sort of deal. I wouldn't have been satisfied with this at all, and I'm still not. There's much more to improve on it if I wanted to actually write something worth keeping. Letter forms consistency, etc. Everything, basically.

 

[caliken]

I wrote something quickly, yesterday, in Spencerian. Unfortunately I messed up the 'w' by shading it in such a manner. Oh well. No guidelines were used, either. It was just a spur of the moment sort of deal. I wouldn't have been satisfied with this at all, and I'm still not. There's much more to improve on it if I wanted to actually write something worth keeping. Letter forms consistency, etc. Everything, basically.

 

 

 

On the plus side, I think that your flourishing is very good - even and smooth with none of the tell-tale juddering which comes from going too slowly or from lack of confidence.

 

I think that you should work on the lettering slowly at first, gradually increasing speed as you gain control.

Try not to be too impatient - it does take time. Keep and date all your writings. As you improve you'll be encouraged by seeing how your writing has developed.

 

Ken