Learning Spencerian...

[wallylynn]

what's the sull book like? I've not been able to find any information of what's inside. more copy pages? how's it different from the mott books?

 

Personally, I don't like to sully books, so I'll be drawing my own guidelines. that way I can write more densely also.

[Mickey]

The Sull book is not in copybook format, it is more like the "Spencerian Theory" book. It does not promote more ornate forms, though it does show more alternate forms than the Spencer Brothers books. Where it is superior, I believe, is in its more easily deciphered directions. It also contains clear analyses of how the various shapes relate to each other.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Mickey

[fiberdrunk]

I love this thread and have really enjoyed admiring everyone's practice pages! Beautiful stuff! My heart aches to learn Spencerian and I have tried to learn. I'm a hook-over lefty, though, and just had the worst time with it (a 30 degree angle is my norm... I tend to do all right with foundational and uncial hands, but not so much with italic and especially not Spencerian or Copperplate). I'm curious if there are any hook-over lefties who have successfully mastered Spencerian and how they managed it. In general, I'm terrible with flex pens... because I tend to push the nib rather than pull it, the ink tends to splatter, so it's firm nibs for me, unfortunately. I've never been able to use the oblique holder at all. I've had a little fun with a Noodler's flex pen, but basically suck at it (most of the shading was colored in after the fact):

 

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5042/5293839521_4017c9beaa_b.jpg

 

Just as supply background, I have Michael Sull's two original Spencerian volumes (I understand you can't get one of them any more). I have the Spencerian Penmanship copybooks. I've just ordered Sull's practice pads to give it another go. This style is so breathtakingly beautiful that I wish so much to master it. I love it so much, I even bought a font that was as close to Spencerian as I could find: P22 Zaner One (my husband thought I was nuts for spending $20 on a single font). A font is an abomination by comparison, I know, but it was one way to get Spencerian into my life! (No affiliation with the FontShop, by the way.)

Edited May 24, 2012 by fiberdrunk

[wallylynn]

After a week, I'm comfortable enough to progress from "u" to "ui"...

 

 

Question: do the rest of you hold your pen as Spencer directs? I'm having a really hard time keeping my wrist off the table. Putting weight on my ring finger and pinky causes my hand to tense up to support the weight.

[Mickey]

 

Question: do the rest of you hold your pen as Spencer directs? I'm having a really hard time keeping my wrist off the table. Putting weight on my ring finger and pinky causes my hand to tense up to support the weight.

 

I don't know that my wrist never brushes the page, but it definitely does not rest on the desk. The contact points are the nib, the last two nails, and the forearm muscle just ahead of the elbow. Most of the weight, what little there is, is on the forearm muscle.

 

I've got a crazy hunch. Put a cushion on your chair and sit a little taller, so your arm can hang easily. Your desk may be a bit too high.

[wallylynn]

I tried sitting higher, but it didn't help. Just made everything uncomfortable. I'm finding if I sit even closer and angle my elbow down over the edge, the lever action raises my wrist. That seems to work well.

 

I suppose I'm being too strict about the wrist off the table. Your brushing action is probably what Spencer meant since even though my wrist touches, it doesn't impede the arm movement. I can slide a sheet of paper under my wrist, but not my forearm.

[Mickey]

I sit fairly close to the desk, too, but have the chair and desk heights adjusted so that the entire arm can, if necessary, slide easily over the entire surface. The arm hangs comfortably from the shoulder and meets up with the desk at just about elbow length down. In other words, I hardly lean on the desk at all.

[wallylynn]

I've had it with the "iw" practice. Moving on to "ni" and "m". Still experimenting with pen grasp and that arm-finger movements.

 

[Columba Livia]

I recently obtained some cards (the largest is 6 x 8.8cm) with names written on them in ornamental script. The seller thought they were from the 1920s, but had no more information. I assume these were all written by the same person, but I'm not 100% certain.

 

The minuscules are approx 1.5mm tall and very faint pencil head and baselines are visible when closely examining the cards.

 

I have scanned them:

 

http://i.imgur.com/ywkKU.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/OMalE.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/bJuyf.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/VnsWk.jpg

^

(This is the largest, being 6 x 8.8cm)

 

http://i.imgur.com/UuJh6.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/IoBj7.jpg

[wallylynn]

wow! those are beautiful. the line variation is so striking.

[wallylynn]

In this topic there was discussion about slant styles by various penmen.

 

I just discovered it's definitely one aspect that's slowing me down. See the following picture of the Mott reproduction vs. my own template:

 

 

If you follow the "i", the downslant seems very close to 52 degrees. But the upslant is definitely not 30 degrees.

 

The 30 day return window has already passed, and I do like the books. But I won't be using it as a template.

Edited June 28, 2012 by wallylynn

[Mickey]

In this topic there was discussion about slant styles by various penmen.

 

I just discovered it's definitely one aspect that's slowing me down. See the following picture of the Mott reproduction vs. my own template:

 

 

If you follow the "i", the downslant seems very close to 52 degrees. But the upslant is definitely not 30 degrees.

 

The 30 day return window has already passed, and I do like the books. But I won't be using it as a template.

 

I think I see where there may be some confusion (or consternation). Remember, the upslant is not a straight line, but a curve that begins shallower and ends steeper than 30 degrees. The net is 30 degrees, though. The problem for the penman is determining where on the curve to measure the slant. This is nontrivial.

 

Another possible issue may arise because spacing in Spencerian is not as rigidly prescribed as it is some hands, and reconciliation is done visually (and dynamically), not as the unavoidable consequence of the letters' geometry (as it is in some italic cursive hands). Establishing the correct visual rhythm is one of the primary reasons for cross drills.

[Brew]

Okay, evening folks.

 

Brew (James) here and I've (probably foolishly) decided to teach myself how to write Spencerian. I've decided to teach myself, as I want to write the names on my wedding invitations for next summer and out of some perverse need to learn something difficult. I saw the script on a website and loved the fluidity of the writing.

 

I am brand new to any sort of calligraphy, and this is my first post. I would describe my current handwriting as legible, but I may be biased!

 

After trawling through the inter-web, I found this forum and I am amazed by what you guys and girls are capable of. If I can pick up 10% of some of the skill shown here I'll be very happy. I've ordered a Speedball oblique pen, some Higgins Eternal ink and a few nibs.

 

Once I get them in the post I'll get to practising, following the tips I've read here. If its not too embarrassing I'll post a few pics.

 

Wish me luck,

 

Brew

[smk]

You are very welcome here James. Its great to have another student of this hand. I have neglected my own practice for some time but will be looking forward to seeing your progress.

 

Salman

[Brew]

Afternoon,

 

Well oblique holder, nibs and ink arrived today so first tentative practice began...

 

I had ordered a couple of EF Principal Copperplate Nibs, as well as some Gillott 303's. I read a few websites about starting out with a new nib. Took out an old toothbrush, some soap and water and hey presto...

 

Holder with principal nib

 

http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss78/jcb_beermonster/Calligraphy/20120808_124411.jpg

 

First try with Nib - no real idea what I'm doing!

 

http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss78/jcb_beermonster/Calligraphy/20120808_124044.jpg

 

I thought I should add a little structure to my random lines so after a read at IAMPETH tried a right curve

 

http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss78/jcb_beermonster/Calligraphy/20120808_125120.jpg

 

and finally, an attempt at a letter. I think it's an "i". You can also see an left curve - much harder.

Moving the pen upwards seems difficult, the nib tends to stick and catch - is this normal?

 

http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss78/jcb_beermonster/Calligraphy/20120808_125551.jpg

 

Spot the obvious mistake - I know there is no dot on any of the i's.

 

I'm not sure that the paper is helping, it's just some plain printer paper but it seems to bleed a little.

 

 

What do I do next?

 

James

[wallylynn]

Limber up, just draw lines and circles before starting the practice. Since you've already been to IAMPETH, you've surely seen the examples where they basically shade the paper.

 

I don't know what size paper, and line spacing you're using, but don't be afraid to write large using 2 or three lines.

 

just keep practicing, and very importantly keep critiquing yourself. I, too, slacked off my pracitce for a few weeks and just restarted last week.

[Mickey]

Limber up, just draw lines and circles before starting the practice. Since you've already been to IAMPETH, you've surely seen the examples where they basically shade the paper.

 

I don't know what size paper, and line spacing you're using, but don't be afraid to write large using 2 or three lines.

 

just keep practicing, and very importantly keep critiquing yourself. I, too, slacked off my pracitce for a few weeks and just restarted last week.

 

+1 and let me add a recent (for me) discovery. Do your warm-ups on the smoothest paper you can find.

 

I recently had a few thank you notes to write on a moderately textured laid paper and the laid lines were bedeviling me, causing snags and spatters all over the place. After a couple of spoiled pages, I reasoned, quite correctly, that I needed to warm up a bit more before proceeding. As luck would have it, the handiest scratch paper was a half used sheet of marker bond. A few minutes working on this ultra smooth paper lightened my touch considerably and increased my speed (letter shape improved as well), all of which carried over to the laid paper. No more snags and spatter.

[schin]

Hello,

 

Here is a Neruda poem I wrote while watching the Olympics final. I am still very new to Spencerian and would appreciate any tips. Looking back, perhaps index cards were not ideal to write with, I am going to try again with tracing paper (that is the smoothest paper I have).

[wallylynn]

Hello,

 

Here is a Neruda poem I wrote while watching the Olympics final. I am still very new to Spencerian and would appreciate any tips. Looking back, perhaps index cards were not ideal to write with, I am going to try again with tracing paper (that is the smoothest paper I have).

Two hallmarks of Spencerian are the very consistent spacing, and the very straight down slant. Look at your "laugh" and compare to the rest of the words and I think you'll see what I mean.

[wallylynn]

I think I can skip practicing "v" and "o". Onwards to "a". That's a toughie.