Pilot Custom 823 Vs Pilot Custom 845

[johntdavis]

Hello,

 

I've got a Pilot 823 (Amber) and absolutely love it. Out of the six pens I have in rotation right now (my entire functioning collection), it 's got the best size for my large but not gigantic hands, holds a fantastic amount of ink, is hassle free to fill (though cleaning it to change inks is a pain), and most importantly the incredibly smooth fine nib writes wonderfully. The nib is big enough that I can get great distance between my hand and the paper, so I can really see what I'm doing and have much better control of the pen as I write. Much more comfortable, as well.

 

I've regrettably come to realize that as much as I love them, my Pilot Capless/Capless Fermo are right at the border-line of what is too small for my hands. I can hold it comfortably to write with -- I'm a lefty; the clip doesn't bother me -- but I have to be very careful not to get it in an awkward position that keeps me from seeing what I'm doing. My Custom 98, as much as I love it, IS to small for my hands, and I often find myself fumbling with it to regrip it if I write for more than a few seconds.

 

So I'm looking at larger, Custom 823 size pens for my next purchase (probably sometime around Christmas or my birthday), and I realized the Custom 845 is supposed to be the top of the line Pilot. I'm interested in trying one out, but I can't find anywhere local that sells them, and I don't want to spend all that money on something that's not a huge leap forward over the 823. I consider the 823 the best FP I've ever owned, and would seriously consider buying another one to keep in rotation so I could have the benefits of the nib/body/fill mechanism + a selection of inks.

 

I'm a bit confused about the exact advantages of the 845. I know the build quality is superb, and that's a big part of the price. I'm not just wild about the rather plain aesthetics, but if the pen is functionally awesome, that's easily overlooked. After all, I'm not a fan at all of gold furniture on pens, but LOVE my 823.

 

So my question is this: if you already owned the 823, would you consider the 845 enough of an "upgrade" to buy one, just buy another 823, or try something else entirely?

[AltecGreen]

The 823 and 845 use the same Pilot #15 sized nib although the 845 nib is two-tone. So from a nib perspective, they are both the same. The biggest difference between the two and the reason for the higher price is that the 845 is made from an ebonite body coated in urushi. Don't judge the finish from pictures. The 845 is c/c although it uses the Con-70 converter. The 845 is about the same size as the 823 but will be a lighter pen. If you like more weight then I would stay away from the 845.

 

As for flagship, that's debatable. The Pilot Artcraft Silvern Pens are the same price as an 845 and I personally think that the Namiki Emperor with the huge #50 nib to be Pilot's flagship. The 845 is not distributed in the US and probably not in Europe. So very few places (like Maido) will have them retail. They are easiest to buy via eBay or directly in Japan or other parts of Asia.

 

I personally recommend a different pen than the 845. If you don't have an appreciation for urushi then it's probably a waste to get an 845. The nib is the same as the 823 so the writing part should be the same. Even if you wanted an urushi pen that is large sized, I would recommend a Nakaya Neostandard or Long Piccolo over the 845. A Sailor KOP would also be interesting but the KOP is significantly more expensive.

 

The Artcraft Silvern would be a more interesting Pilot pen than the 845. The inset nib is large and quite different than the standard #15 nib. The pen is the close to the size of an 823 but heavier due to the sterling silver. The only drawback is that the Silverns can only use the CON-20 and CON-50 converters.

Edited October 8, 2011 by AltecGreen

[Bruno Taut]

Just for the record, the 845´s nib is made of 18K gold whereas the 823´s is 14K.

 

Not that it makes any real difference...

 

I agree with AltecGreen--I would look somewhere else before choosing an 845 if you already had a 823. On the other hand, Silvern, gorgeous indeed, are heavy.

 

Follow the nib...

 

Cheers,

 

Iosepus

Edited October 8, 2011 by Iosepus

[Strang]

I owned both the 823 and 845 with broad nibs. Other than the physical differences between the pens, the writing experience was identical. The #15 nibs are wonderful. I liked the 845 much better and considered it a significant upgrade so I traded the 823. If they'd had different nibs and offered different writing experiences I would have kept both. If you are considering adding a second 823, why not spring for the 845 instead?

[johntdavis]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. AltecGreen, thanks for clearing up the difference between the 845 and the 823 for me. It sounds like you're paying extra (justifiably) for the much nicer body, which is a bit of an art piece. (I've never gotten an urushi or maki-e pen and I'm not quite ready to take the plunge into that kind of collecting yet. Right now, I can't justify the extra expense just for aesthetics, even if they're quite gorgeous, and a literal piece of handcrafted art. That, and I can't bring myself to buy a pen so expensive I would be afraid to actually use it, especially outside my house. )

 

Those Artcraft Silvern pens are gorgeous. I had no idea Pilot made something like that. Are those new? They're lovely and artistic but not so much that I feel like i would be afraid to touch them. Still, at that price range, I'd be hard pressed just to spend extra money for the silver and the (admittedly awesome looking) inlaid nibs. I also honestly worry about someone trying to steal something that looks like it's covered in solid silver. That said, I keep going back and staring at those nibs. At that price point I'd start seriously considering a Homo Sapiens. I love the idea of a pen made of volcanic rock, though I can't help thinking I'd probably be safer sticking with Pilot for its excellent, consistent build quality.

 

I've managed, thus far, to avoid getting into Nakaya pens. From what I understand, they can become a bit of an obsession. Well, more than normal when it comes to FPs. Where's a good place to start in the $300 or less range, focusing on a nib that's at least as good as a C823?

 

As noted, the Pilot No. 15 nib is amazing. It's the best nib I've ever owned, and I want something just as good if I'm going to spend this much money.

 

What about a Falcon? I've avoided them thus far because I honestly have no interest in flex ... yet.

 

Does anyone know anything about the Pilot Custom Maple? I just ran across it while I was googling around, and hadn't heard anything about it, either.

 

I suppose I should be a bit clearer about my budget.

 

Right now, my ceiling is $350.

I'm not exactly sure how much I paid for the Custom 823, because I can't seem to figure out where I bought it from ( ), but I know I didn't pay more than $300. It was in the $260-$280 range, I think.

[tacitus]

http://www.office-japan.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=342

I have a Pilot 823, but am saving money to buy forthcoming new Pilot custom pen made of taxus wood, that has similar appearance and size to C845.

Edited October 18, 2011 by tacitus

[johntdavis]

http://www.office-ja...products_id=342

I have a Pilot 823, but am saving money to buy forthcoming new Pilot custom pen made of taxus wood, that has similar appearance and size to C845.

 

Hmm. Is this a new version of the Pilot Custom Maple?

[tacitus]

It is taxus or yew not maple.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxus

this is another advertisement.

http://yfrog.com/z/nxbkxcbj

It is not limited edition.

No need to rush to chase C845 or maple?

Edited October 19, 2011 by tacitus

[Jezza]

A couple other questions you might consider in deciding with pen to get next: Do you prefer to write with the cap posted? I ask because the Urushi finish on the 845 can be damaged by posting the cap. Moreover, the cap on the 845 posts further back than the 823, which messes with the balance. If you don't post the cap, then none of this really matters, I suppose. On the other hand, the 845 might be nice to have simply because it does allow one to use cartridges or converter. I happen to have a job that requires a bit of air travel, which is why I'm actually grateful that my Nakaya Celluloid uses cartridges. Otherwise, I'd always be leaving it at home simply to avoid the hassle of emptying and filling the pen before and after flights, not to mention taking a bottle of ink with me. This is actually only of the reasons I sold my Visconti Homo Sapiens. I found myself leaving it at home when I left. I was also not fond of the finish--it was a little too soft and almost rubbery.

[mirko]

Don't go Falcon. The concept is great, but the flow of nibs has a hard time keeping up with western script....

Edited October 22, 2011 by mirko

[Dr.Grace]

A couple other questions you might consider in deciding with pen to get next: Do you prefer to write with the cap posted? I ask because the Urushi finish on the 845 can be damaged by posting the cap. Moreover, the cap on the 845 posts further back than the 823, which messes with the balance. If you don't post the cap, then none of this really matters, I suppose. On the other hand, the 845 might be nice to have simply because it does allow one to use cartridges or converter. I happen to have a job that requires a bit of air travel, which is why I'm actually grateful that my Nakaya Celluloid uses cartridges. Otherwise, I'd always be leaving it at home simply to avoid the hassle of emptying and filling the pen before and after flights, not to mention taking a bottle of ink with me. This is actually only of the reasons I sold my Visconti Homo Sapiens. I found myself leaving it at home when I left. I was also not fond of the finish--it was a little too soft and almost rubbery.

I've found that the 823 does fine on flights. Just close the valve when you're not using it. I do bring a Nalgene bottle or two of ink in my checked luggage.

[johntdavis]

A couple other questions you might consider in deciding with pen to get next: Do you prefer to write with the cap posted? I ask because the Urushi finish on the 845 can be damaged by posting the cap. Moreover, the cap on the 845 posts further back than the 823, which messes with the balance. If you don't post the cap, then none of this really matters, I suppose. On the other hand, the 845 might be nice to have simply because it does allow one to use cartridges or converter. I happen to have a job that requires a bit of air travel, which is why I'm actually grateful that my Nakaya Celluloid uses cartridges. Otherwise, I'd always be leaving it at home simply to avoid the hassle of emptying and filling the pen before and after flights, not to mention taking a bottle of ink with me. This is actually only of the reasons I sold my Visconti Homo Sapiens. I found myself leaving it at home when I left. I was also not fond of the finish--it was a little too soft and almost rubbery.

I've found that the 823 does fine on flights. Just close the valve when you're not using it. I do bring a Nalgene bottle or two of ink in my checked luggage.

 

Indeed. From everything I've heard the blind-cap/valve system is especially well suited for plane travel. I haven't flown with it personally, though.

[Jezza]

You could also go for a Custom 743. Basically the same size as a 843, and uses the same 15 size nib, but it offers the entire range of Pilot nibs. Of course, like the 845, the 743 is a CC fill pen. But, the Con 70 is a great and relatively large capacity converter. You might also find the abiliy to use cartridges is convenient, and makes it easier to swap out ink. I used to be bothered by CC pens, but ultimately realized I switched inks or nibs often enough that I would invariably waist ink.

 

Some of the nibs available on the 743 are quite interesting. I have a stub and a posting nib on my two 743's. I'd really like to try a few others, too.

[sessyargc]

IMHO going from 823 to 845 is not an upgrade path. Though I do eventually want to get an 845 in F.

 

I have nothing against the 823 but I like to take my pens apart :-) and with the 823 I can't easily do that because of the filling system.

 

 

Don't go Falcon. The concept is great, but the flow of nibs has a hard time keeping up with western script....

 

My 823 has an FA nib.

 

I think this comment will depend on several factors:

1) speed at which you write

2) size of your characters

 

White big characters fast and you will definitely have flow issues. Write too fast and flow can't keep up. Writing fast at the wrong angle can cause the tines to spread causing flow problems, yet again. I feel that when I use it, I caress this nib.

 

 

I write relatively fast but with small character sizes and the flow is OK. Koichi-san from Asahiya Kami Bungu informed me that after break in the flow would still improve. It'll be wetter he explained. "I like the nib so much" that I want to slow down when using it. Such cliche, sorry.

 

 

Some of the nibs available on the 743 are quite interesting. I have a stub and a posting nib on my two 743's. I'd really like to try a few others, too.

 

Yep very interesting nibs indeed. Pilot also have a WA (waverly) nib for fast writing. Koichi-san mentioned the tip is turned up so as not catch any of the paper fibers during very fast writing.

[Jezza]

IMHO going from 823 to 845 is not an upgrade path. Though I do eventually want to get an 845 in F.

 

I have nothing against the 823 but I like to take my pens apart :-) and with the 823 I can't easily do that because of the filling system.

 

 

Don't go Falcon. The concept is great, but the flow of nibs has a hard time keeping up with western script....

 

My 823 has an FA nib.

 

I think this comment will depend on several factors:

1) speed at which you write

2) size of your characters

 

White big characters fast and you will definitely have flow issues. Write too fast and flow can't keep up. Writing fast at the wrong angle can cause the tines to spread causing flow problems, yet again. I feel that when I use it, I caress this nib.

 

 

I write relatively fast but with small character sizes and the flow is OK. Koichi-san from Asahiya Kami Bungu informed me that after break in the flow would still improve. It'll be wetter he explained. "I like the nib so much" that I want to slow down when using it. Such cliche, sorry.

 

 

Some of the nibs available on the 743 are quite interesting. I have a stub and a posting nib on my two 743's. I'd really like to try a few others, too.

 

Yep very interesting nibs indeed. Pilot also have a WA (waverly) nib for fast writing. Koichi-san mentioned the tip is turned up so as not catch any of the paper fibers during very fast writing.

I'm curious how you obtained an 823 with a falcon nib. Was that a special order, or some sort of nib swap? I've only ever seen the 823 offered with the standard fine, medium, or bold nibs--even from Japanese vendors.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Jezza

[sessyargc]

I'm curious how you obtained an 823 with a falcon nib. Was that a special order, or some sort of nib swap? I've only ever seen the 823 offered with the standard fine, medium, or bold nibs--even from Japanese vendors.

 

Got it from Koichi-san:

http://www.asahiyakami.co.jp/shop/pilot_custom823/pilot_custom823.htm

This link has been floating around here for quite some time now. I found it and given my fondness of flexible nibs, took the plunge.

 

Went to Maruzen and they kept explaining to me that the Custom 823 is not available in FA, as you also stated. This is also in the Pilot catalog, no FA. My Japanese is very bad so I can't ask the store proprietor how/where he gets the Custom 823 FA.

[GeeTee]

I have an Pilot 823 and have been looking to the 845 but decided it's not worth it. I'm thinking of selling the 823 and get an 743. I like the 823 nib, but the pen is very picky about inks. The thing that really turns me off is the fact you have to unscrew the knob every time you want to write to get a good flow, which makes it not very usefull for quick notes. Vacfillers do nothing for me. A 743 with a con-70 converter will be perfect I think.

Edited November 2, 2011 by GeeTee

[Jezza]

I have an Pilot 823 and have been looking to the 845 but decided it's not worth it. I'm thinking of selling the 823 and get an 743. I like the 823 nib, but the pen is very picky about inks. The thing that really turns me off is the fact you have to unscrew the knob every time you want to write to get a good flow, which makes it not very usefull for quick notes. Vacfillers do nothing for me. A 743 with a con-70 converter will be perfect I think.

You will love the 743. Same feel as the 823, but easier to use. Also, there is a better selection of nibs.

[GeeTee]

I have an Pilot 823 and have been looking to the 845 but decided it's not worth it. I'm thinking of selling the 823 and get an 743. I like the 823 nib, but the pen is very picky about inks. The thing that really turns me off is the fact you have to unscrew the knob every time you want to write to get a good flow, which makes it not very usefull for quick notes. Vacfillers do nothing for me. A 743 with a con-70 converter will be perfect I think.

You will love the 743. Same feel as the 823, but easier to use. Also, there is a better selection of nibs.

 

 

What is a good source for Pilot 743's? On Ebay in only see a few with nibs i don't like. Engeika's shop only has FA nibs.

[nicholasyeo]

Wow, looks like the 845 just got snubbed, really... If you recall an earlier

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/203313-pilot-custom-845-pilots-sad-flagship/

post, it seems almost ironic to call it a flagship... Just IMO...