What Do You Mean By "feathering"?

[jzents]

I had to be dull, but I am not sure I have caught on to what people mean by "feathering". For that matter what do they mean by a "dry" or "wet" pen? I am not clear on this and it would help my understanding of a lot of the posts that I am reading. Thank you!

 

Gosh, while I am at it, what do you mean by a "dirty" ink?

Edited October 4, 2011 by jzents

[ocularhp]

"Feathering" is when ink spreads beyond where it is applied to the paper, usually along the fibers.

 

A dry writing pen lays less ink onto a page, a wet writer lays a lot of ink onto the page. Additionally, inks are sometimes described as dry or wet.

 

Dirty ink... I have no idea... maybe one that's messy? one that gets you all hot and bothered? an ink full of particulate?

I think I prefer the second option... I've definitely got some dirty inks.

Edited October 4, 2011 by ocularhp

[PenFisher]

Here's something for comparison, same pen and same paper with different inks. The bottom sample displays more feathering .... meaning the edges of the line are not as sharp and precise.

 

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6154/6212649278_38724fd8fe.jpg

 

 

 

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6165/6212134869_e3c9726fd8.jpg

[brim]

Good questions for those of us just getting in to the fountain pen world. Is there like a fountain pen dictionary, or list of terms posted somewhere?

[Lazarus Long]

I don't know what others consider 'dirty', but that is how I describe a lot of the inks I have that are mixed with black to darken them. I have 1 brown and 2 blue-black inks that I don't really like that meet that description. When dry instead of looking like a dark blue or dark brown, they look like a bluish or brownish grey.

[jzents]

  On 10/4/2011 at 10:30 PM, ocularhp said:

"Feathering" is when ink spreads beyond where it is applied to the paper, usually along the fibers.

 

A dry writing pen lays less ink onto a page, a wet writer lays a lot of ink onto the page. Additionally, inks are sometimes described as dry or wet.

 

Dirty ink... I have no idea... maybe one that's messy? one that gets you all hot and bothered? an ink full of particulate?

I think I prefer the second option... I've definitely got some dirty inks.

 

Thank you. Are certain brands of pens known as either wet or dry pens? Or is it a pen by pen characteristic?

[jzents]

  On 10/5/2011 at 12:23 AM, Lazarus Long said:

I don't know what others consider 'dirty', but that is how I describe a lot of the inks I have that are mixed with black to darken them. I have 1 brown and 2 blue-black inks that I don't really like that meet that description. When dry instead of looking like a dark blue or dark brown, they look like a bluish or brownish grey.

 

 

Thank you. Seems that this term is not one that has a single accepted notion amount pen lovers.

[jzents]

  On 10/4/2011 at 10:49 PM, PenFisher said:

Here's something for comparison, same pen and same paper with different inks. The bottom sample displays more feathering .... meaning the edges of the line are not as sharp and precise.

 

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6154/6212649278_38724fd8fe.jpg

 

 

 

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6165/6212134869_e3c9726fd8.jpg

 

 

Nice pictures. They help me visualize what is being said. Much appreciated.

[jzents]

  On 10/4/2011 at 10:00 PM, jzents said:

I had to be dull, but I am not sure I have caught on to what people mean by "feathering". For that matter what do they mean by a "dry" or "wet" pen? I am not clear on this and it would help my understanding of a lot of the posts that I am reading. Thank you!

 

Gosh, while I am at it, what do you mean by a "dirty" ink?

 

 

All of the replies to this initial post where very helpful and I really appreciate all of them. This seems like a very nice site for a newbie like me. I am going to risk patience with one more question. I see references to different size nibs. And I read comments about some pens, like the Levenger True Writer, that their fine is really more of a medium. Is there a official, normal or what have you standard for line width for the different size nibs so that a newbie can have a sense of what size line he/she should expect when purchasing a pen?

[Essensia]

For an excellent reference that'll keep you busy for weeks, visit Richard Binder's site and click "Reference Pages" in the blue bar at the left. There is an extensive glossary of terms and lots of other useful information.

[encephalartos]

  On 10/5/2011 at 2:54 AM, jzents said:

  On 10/4/2011 at 10:00 PM, jzents said:

I had to be dull, but I am not sure I have caught on to what people mean by "feathering". For that matter what do they mean by a "dry" or "wet" pen? I am not clear on this and it would help my understanding of a lot of the posts that I am reading. Thank you!

 

Gosh, while I am at it, what do you mean by a "dirty" ink?

 

 

All of the replies to this initial post where very helpful and I really appreciate all of them. This seems like a very nice site for a newbie like me. I am going to risk patience with one more question. I see references to different size nibs. And I read comments about some pens, like the Levenger True Writer, that their fine is really more of a medium. Is there a official, normal or what have you standard for line width for the different size nibs so that a newbie can have a sense of what size line he/she should expect when purchasing a pen?

 

The widths are not standardized. In many cases, a Japanese fine (or extra fine) is much narrower than what a European

manufacturer calls fine. For very narrow nibs, look at the Sailor EF or one of the customized nibs from one of

the nib-meisters (they start with a wider nib and make it narrower). The line laid down is also affected by the ink,

how freely the pen flows, and how light or heavy your hand is.

[SamCapote]

Here is a good example of ink feathering severely, namely Blue Nose Bear. See how on the closeup views there are spikes of ink coming out to the side, this is somewhat like a line with feathers coming out.

 

 

 

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/Inks/BNBs.jpg

[stefanv]

And here's another:

 

http://www.stefanv.com/pens/papers/compare-front.jpg

 

The pen was a Hero 616, using Waterman Blue-Black ink. The picture is taken from my paper comparison test article, linked to in my signature below.

Edited October 5, 2011 by stefanv

[jzents]

  On 10/5/2011 at 12:03 PM, stefanv said:

And here's another:

 

http://www.stefanv.com/pens/papers/compare-front.jpg

 

The pen was a Hero 616, using Waterman Blue-Black ink. The picture is taken from my paper comparison test article, linked to in my signature below.

 

Very good pictures. I can see the difference. Thank you very much!

[jzents]

  On 10/5/2011 at 7:26 AM, SamCapote said:

Here is a good example of ink feathering severely, namely Blue Nose Bear. See how on the closeup views there are spikes of ink coming out to the side, this is somewhat like a line with feathers coming out.

 

 

 

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/Inks/BNBs.jpg

 

 

You all are very helpful. I never expected to be granted so much attention. I do appreciate the time taken to reply this way. The pictures are a great education to lots more than just feathering. I really appreciate it. Had not thought that much about differences in paper.

[jzents]

  On 10/5/2011 at 5:48 AM, encephalartos said:

  On 10/5/2011 at 2:54 AM, jzents said:

  On 10/4/2011 at 10:00 PM, jzents said:

I had to be dull, but I am not sure I have caught on to what people mean by "feathering". For that matter what do they mean by a "dry" or "wet" pen? I am not clear on this and it would help my understanding of a lot of the posts that I am reading. Thank you!

 

Gosh, while I am at it, what do you mean by a "dirty" ink?

 

 

All of the replies to this initial post where very helpful and I really appreciate all of them. This seems like a very nice site for a newbie like me. I am going to risk patience with one more question. I see references to different size nibs. And I read comments about some pens, like the Levenger True Writer, that their fine is really more of a medium. Is there a official, normal or what have you standard for line width for the different size nibs so that a newbie can have a sense of what size line he/she should expect when purchasing a pen?

 

The widths are not standardized. In many cases, a Japanese fine (or extra fine) is much narrower than what a European

manufacturer calls fine. For very narrow nibs, look at the Sailor EF or one of the customized nibs from one of

the nib-meisters (they start with a wider nib and make it narrower). The line laid down is also affected by the ink,

how freely the pen flows, and how light or heavy your hand is.

 

Thank you. I will look for a "Sailor EF". I assume that is from a Japanese pen maker. I will get back to you if I cannot locate them. Thank you for the information.

[jzents]

  On 10/5/2011 at 5:03 AM, Essensia said:

For an excellent reference that'll keep you busy for weeks, visit Richard Binder's site and click "Reference Pages" in the blue bar at the left. There is an extensive glossary of terms and lots of other useful information.

 

Great. Thank you for the reference. I will check it out today.

[lapis]

I used to be a dirty old man.

Now, I am a dirty older man.

 

Mike

[Bo Bo Olson]

There is no 'standard', no norm; just Each company's standard with inbuilt slop.

 

Many who use Japanese pens or other narrow pen/nibs that they never mention exactly which one or from rumor consider the modern Pelikan F a Medium Fine.

Japanese nibs are mismarked. They are one size narrower than marked. In that many started off with cheaper Japanese pens, they think the miss marked narrowness of Japanese nibs is 'normal'.

 

If you want a narrow nib, buy Japanese and you will have no complaints. They will be narrower than marked by a full size.

Keep that in mind when buying a western nib, they will be wider than Japanese.

You will have no reason to complain that a western nib is wider than a Japanese nib. You now know better.

 

In there is no norm or standard out side each company's standards, and there are so many companies, there are many medium fines, many fine-extra fines, and many broad mediums, you just have to pick the company.

And hope.

Companies standards over lap other company standards, and they have no interest in a 'norm' out side their very own standards.

 

If you expand your screen a bit this chart becomes readable. A fine poster with very many medium, fine and extra fine nibs from many companies made this chart, that proves looking for an 'exact' nib size is difficult.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm300/BoBoOlson/NibWidthChart.jpg

 

 

 

Perhaps you need to look to a vintage Medium, to find a medium-fine in modern terms. They I've heard run narrower and sharper than today's range of blobbier, stiffer modern nib.

 

For me anything with hand grenade range is close enough for me, in I care more for how the nib writes than splitting hairs.

I do have 'half' size nibs, any one with enough of them must have that. Company Slop alone will do that.

 

If you go to Richard's Stroke chart you can measure your nibs to Richard's standards...which has become FPN 'standard' because of it's ready availability and ease of printing out your checking tool.

Do realize it is Richard Standard,is Richard's standard not Japanese, Parker, Sheaffer, Conway Stewart, Pelikan and Pelikan 800 or either of the two Waterman standards.

 

As such it is still a fine tool, to measure all your nibs against; not worrying about what is marked on the nib.

It is a handy tool to find out how wide...all your nibs are, it is no more reality based than the marking on your nib. Remember the marking on one company's nib is their marking, not his, not the next company, and there is built in slop.

 

http://richardspens....trokewidths.pdf

 

It could well be you have some half sizes already.

 

The reason is with in the company standards there is 'slop' to what is what width.

 

From a good poster

 

‘’’Sheaffer used a dial indicator nib gauge for measuring nib sizes. The nib was inserted into the gauge, and the size read off of the dial. A given size being nibs that fell within a given range. What is listed below were the ranges given on a gauge that I saw in the Sheaffer service center prior to being closed in March 2008.

 

Measurements are in thousandths of an inch.

 

XXF = 0.010 - 0.013

XF = 0.013 - 0.018

F = 0.018 - 0.025

M = 0.025 - 0.031

Broad* = 0.031 - 0.050

Stub = 0.038 - 0.050

 

*there was some overlap on the gauge. May be 0.035 - 0.050 ‘’’

 

 

As you can see, a fat in any range and a thin of the next higher width are the same.

 

www.richardspens.com/ the basics of fountain pens.

 

Stroke chart

http://richardspens.com/pdf/strokewidths.pdf

 

Nib size

 

http://www.nibs.com/TippingSizespage.htm

 

http://www.nibs.com/...ngSizespage.htm … com/TippingSizegage.htm

 

The below is ‘complete’ but don’t work for me from Word like the Blue, this is some sort of purple/violet color?????????? Maybe you can get it to do something by cutting and pasting or something.

http://www.nibs.com /TippingSizepage.htm

 

 

 

http://www.pentrace....e052501085.html .com/article052

More complete both work by me from Word

 

http://www.pentrace.com/article052501085.html

 

 

http://www.nakaya.org/estub.html

 

 

 

 

http://www.richardspens.com/?page=ref_info...flex_italic.htm

 

 

http://www.algonet.se/~claesg

 

In regular flex nibs the width of the nib will effect the tone of the ink, when using a good shading ink.

 

Using MB toffee a nice brown.

Fine was light with dark trails.

Medium was 50-50.

Broad was dark with light trails.

 

On cheap 80 g/sm Xerox copy paper Lamy Turquoise will not shade. On 90 g/sm cheap Oxford school notebooks it will.

Stay away from Laser jet paper...and I think I read that re-cyled paper can be poorer than wanted...but I'm still a paper 'noobie'.

 

There are two toned shading inks and vivid mono-toned inks.

 

 

By me, writing my seven letter last name.=

EF is 1/2 a letter smaller than Fine.

Fine is 1/2 a letter smaller than medium.

Medium is 1/2 a letter smaller than Broad.

 

That is not a huge amount of difference....yet with an ink tone, it does matter.

 

Incompetech writing template for making lines in paper.

 

D*I*Y Planner templates.

 

 

 

 

 

There is always something new to learn in Fountain pens.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Bo Bo Olson

[HDoug]

Is it too late to post pics of "feathering"?

 

http://homepage.mac.com/hdougmatsuoka/images/pen/070825/black.jpg

 

http://homepage.mac.com/hdougmatsuoka/images/pen/070825/burgundy.jpg

 

http://homepage.mac.com/hdougmatsuoka/images/pen/070825/nobsbb.jpg

 

Hope not.

 

Doug