Servicing Piston Of Stipula Etruria

[jigesh]

I was not specifically talking about the convertible piston models (like 991). My Fiesole and Alter Ego have grip section threads from where I feel by touch that they can be opened (that means they are not like 991, and still have two piece barrels) but I am afraid to unscrew grip section fully because I read it was too hard to put everything back inside in these models.

[eric47]

I was not specifically talking about the convertible piston models (like 991). My Fiesole and Alter Ego have grip section threads from where I feel by touch that they can be opened (that means they are not like 991, and still have two piece barrels) but I am afraid to unscrew grip section fully because I read it was too hard to put everything back inside in these models.

 

Ok, but you wrote:

"while those in new ones (including 991 model) with metallic sleeve inside can have grip section ehich can be opened if you are determined but is not advisable to open because putting back needs to be sent to Stipula!"

which seemed to include the 991 convertible as being problematic to open, which really isn't if care is taken. No problem.

 

I wouldn't open try to open my current production Amber -- which has the same design as your Fiesole and Alter Ego -- either. If it has issues, it's going to Stipula. Then again, I'll probably sell it before then. I don't like the current production Etrurias.

[efchem]

Actually I will chime in. If you look closely, you can see a seam just below the threads on the section (specifically on the amber one). From the inside, there is a step showing that they are somehow joined but I was not going to mess with it anymore since I was able to clean it out. Actually, the syringe was great for this, it fit inside the hole of the sleeve and I could get water in there easily and with a little force.

 

I will look at the blind cap area to see if I see anything but I am no longer determined to take it apart since it seems to work, though I still have fill it with ink and test it out. My problem now is to decide what nib to put on which pen. I have a 52 degree, broad and medium nib. One is from my Saturno. And then decide what inks to put into the pens. Finally, wait for my FPN LE to see how the new section shape feels compared to the old ones.

 

Last question, I read somewhere about the rarer original black celluloid Etruria's. How would I tell if I have one of those or what the black is made from? The amber serial is 756 and the black 1920.

 

Thanks for the discussion thus far,

Erick

Edited September 16, 2011 by efchem

[eric47]

Last question, I read somewhere about the rarer original black celluloid Etruria's. How would I tell if I have one of those or what the black is made from? The amber serial is 756 and the black 1920.

 

Sniff it. (That's what I usually do; sometimes I stick it in a pen tube overnight so the gases build up)

Edited September 16, 2011 by eric47

[jigesh]

I was not specifically talking about the convertible piston models (like 991). My Fiesole and Alter Ego have grip section threads from where I feel by touch that they can be opened (that means they are not like 991, and still have two piece barrels) but I am afraid to unscrew grip section fully because I read it was too hard to put everything back inside in these models.

 

Ok, but you wrote:

"while those in new ones (including 991 model) with metallic sleeve inside can have grip section ehich can be opened if you are determined but is not advisable to open because putting back needs to be sent to Stipula!"

which seemed to include the 991 convertible as being problematic to open, which really isn't if care is taken. No problem. ....

 

 

Yes, that confusion was due to the poor order of words (I have a nasty habit of using braces too often; like this one!) and/or phrasing on my part.

[jigesh]

Last question, I read somewhere about the rarer original black celluloid Etruria's. How would I tell if I have one of those or what the black is made from? The amber serial is 756 and the black 1920.

 

Sniff it. (That's what I usually do; sometimes I stick it in a pen tube overnight so the gases build up)

 

 

Eric is right. Thermoplastics from nitrocellulose and camphor (which adds malleability to the compound) will have camphor-like smell and has sticky kind of a feel. 991's celluloid is this type. The material is inflammable in permissive conditions. Some call it as ture celluloid. The cellulose acetate type thermoplastics won't have camphor smell but may have sourish smell (or may not have such smell, may have no smell at all if other pigments dominate) and a smooth (but not too sticky) feel. Most modern pens that use cellulose use this acetate type material.

Edited September 16, 2011 by jigesh

[wimg]

Updated the first post with additional info after removing both nibs and looking at the internal of the pen.

 

Which Etrurias do you have, as Georges asked. I know on my convertibles, the hole into the special piston/converter mechanism is very tiny, a couple mm in diamter. On those pens, I would think it easier to unscrew the section *carefully* to get direct access to the piston/converter mechanism. On the first version and current production Etrurias, I'd probably pull the nib and feed, hole on those is probably small too.

 

Well, I just got them so all I know is that they are older versions since they have the slight taper to the section but do not know much else. With the nibs and feeds pulled and looking inside, it looks like a piece of plastic with a small hole in the middle. The feed also has a small tube sticking off of the back, which looks like it fits in there. I tried unscrewing the section and neither pen would budge. I did put water into the amber one with the tight piston and after an hour the water came out with ink in it so this might explain the tight piston movement. I am going to try and soak it more and maybe that will help it.

 

On yours, is the section easy to unscrew?

The ones with the slight taper have a plastic insert, and the nib collar is glued to this insert. This prevents ink from leaking to th ebarrel and section - celluloid does stain fairly easily.

 

IOW, with these the nib/feed should be pulled with these in order to grease the piston. This is doable with a toothpick, but not very easy.

 

Warm regards, Wim

[wimg]

I have a few questions about the etruria.

 

Does the piston ride in a seperate sleeve inside the barrel or directly contacting the walls of the barrel like vintage Montblanc and Omas celluloid pens?

 

Do certain Etruria suffer from barrel shrinkage?

 

Thanks!

Hari

Yes, the celluloid ones do have some shrinkage, some more than others (the retractible versions have a lot of shrinkage - long and reltively thin pieces of celluloid).

 

With the exception of the demonstrator versions, they all have a separate sleeve inside, in order to prevent staining of the celluloid. And I assume to make manufacturing easier, even the resin PF versions have an inner sleeve.

 

Warm regards, Wim

[wimg]

I have a modern Alter Ego piston-fill.

Do the nib and feed pull straight out on this?

(It doesn't need removal ATM, but it's useful to know)

Thanks.

Yes, they do.

 

You could also unscrew the entire nib/feed assembly, but since this is a celluloid pen, I don't recommend it. Furthermore, the nib/feed assembly only has a very thin lip, with a rubber seal behind it, and the lip is relatively fragile. Screwing it back in too tightly will likely damage this. Hence, for these two reasons, it is better to pull nib and feed.

 

Warm regards, Wim

[wimg]

..From efchem's photos of the barrels above, the barrels look 1 piece, I may be wrong. but there should be some way to disassemble the pen ...

 

My impression is that the barrels on old Etrurias were single piece while those in new ones (including 991 model) with metallic sleeve inside can have grip section which can be opened if you are determined but is not advisable to open because putting back needs to be sent to Stipula! - I remember Wim mentioning it somewhere. There must be some way though at the blind cap side to remove piston assembly, but I haven't tried myself. There are no special slots (like in MB) or similar mechanisms and hence I don't see if any special tools are needed or not.

Actually, on the older ones, with a straight tapering section, the PF sleeve is glued to the nib/feed assembly, so I don't recommend removing it yourself - as I found out the hard way .

 

Only the convertible ones (991, Amber Convertible, Blue Ocean and Étëré) have the option to remove the barrel by unscrewing it. All other (newer) ones are one piece, essentially.

 

I have never tried to remove the PF sleeve from any of the newer models - I do think you need special tools to do so.

 

Essentially the piston system will likely come through the piston knob hole once that is removed, and provided the nib/feed assembly hasnt been glued to the other end of the PF sleeve.

 

Warm regards, Wim

[wimg]

Pics attached. It is a piston fill but with a sleeve on the inside. It just had dried ink and now is working smoother. I plan to use some noodler's eel ink to help lube the piston better.

 

Should I worry about the silver ring by the piston knob of the black one because it can slide down?

Í wouldn't worry about the silver ring moving. It happens, due to a little shrinkage of the celluloid. Furthermore, it needs to rotate (fairly) freely anyway.

 

Warm regards, Wim

[wimg]

Thanks for the inputs Jigesh. From efchem's photos of the barrels above, the barrels look 1 piece, I may be wrong. but there should be some way to disassemble the pen. Efchem, do you see any cross pin through the piston knob, like celluloid Ogiva/paragons? or any slots/flats in the filler unit with the knob unscrewed a bit?

In order to remove the piston unit, you need to remove the entire nib/feed assembly first. This because the collar of the nib/feed assembly is glued to the plastic sleeve, and will likely break when trying to remove it. If it works, I suggest to leave ti well alone - speaking from experience here .

 

Warm regards, Wim

[wimg]

I have a modern Alter Ego piston-fill.

Do the nib and feed pull straight out on this?

(It doesn't need removal ATM, but it's useful to know)

 

Roger, same type of Bock mounting hardware that you know from your Tibaldi. You can pull the nib and feed straight out; and there are guides/cutouts for the nib on the feed, and feed into the collar.

 

The collar can be unscrewed from the section with a key, .

Only the older models have nib/feed assemblies with these slits, and these are generally glued to the piston sleeve. Don't unscrew if not absolutely necessary, as in PF mechanism repairs..... See above .

 

but it's typically not needed for say a nib swap. You'd unscrew only if it's absolutely necessary, e.g. a broken collar. Wim has mentioned he has/had a pen with the collar stuck partially unscrewed. So just leave the collar, and treat the nib + feed as friction fit.

Yes, I had one for repair, fortunaley not one of my own ones fortunately, although I had done a nib special on this (double 15 degree left footed oblique). The nib was also destroyed due to excessive force being used to try and unscrew it.

The Etrurias that I have (991, Amber - old and new versions, Alter Ego and Fiesole) don't have pistons directly touching the celluloid barrel like it does for MB and Omas. There's either thin plastic or metallic housing inside the barrel that contains the piston mechanism. This way, there's no direct contact between the ink and barrel's celluloid material. The blind caps have loose/rotating metallic rings, which I guess, are to prevent jamming of piston knobs in case of barrel shrinkage. I haven't seen barrel shrinkage in Etrurias (since I don't have that long experience with Etrurias - Wim or Eric can comment more), but in theory, it can happen. I have seen some really bad shrinkage in Omas's older Paragons and Aurora's older Optimas - perhaps because of insufficient curing during manufacturing process.

 

I only have a 991, 3 Ambers (old, Convertible, new), and a Ocean Blue (or is that Blue Ocean ) also a convertible. The only one I don't know what's inside is the old Amber, but sounds like efchem has determined that that pen too has liner.

Yes, a plastic liner, glued to the nib/feed assembly collar.

I haven't seen any celluloid shrinkage on mine. But I believe the switch was made from nitrate to acetate for stability, though I haven't read any reports of shrinkage either; Wim's the expert on this.

 

The first Optimas had shrinkage so bad the the cap and barrel get distorted -- it shrinks transversely as well as in the diameter unevenly. Some, more than other, Omas celluloids are prone to shrinkage too,e.g. early Wild on the Galileo, and Arco Green. Typically with those, the diameter shrinks evenly leaving loose cap rings, although the pen looks otherwise fine. My two Galileos, an Arco Green, and a bit on an Pearl Gray and Arco Brown have shrunk. I had my restorer redo the rings on the Galileo and Arco Green, and he was able to tighten the rings on the Pearl Gray and an Arco Brown roller.

On one of my retractibles, the shrinkage was bad enough to bend the piston knob. But those sufer most, also because they have this retractible construction, and are piston fillers at the same time.

 

Warm regards, Wim

[wimg]

I was not specifically talking about the convertible piston models (like 991). My Fiesole and Alter Ego have grip section threads from where I feel by touch that they can be opened (that means they are not like 991, and still have two piece barrels) but I am afraid to unscrew grip section fully because I read it was too hard to put everything back inside in these models.

They are not unscrewable, actually. They have a little step just before the screw thread for the cap start, that's all.

 

Warm regards, Wim

[wimg]

I was not specifically talking about the convertible piston models (like 991). My Fiesole and Alter Ego have grip section threads from where I feel by touch that they can be opened (that means they are not like 991, and still have two piece barrels) but I am afraid to unscrew grip section fully because I read it was too hard to put everything back inside in these models.

 

Ok, but you wrote:

"while those in new ones (including 991 model) with metallic sleeve inside can have grip section ehich can be opened if you are determined but is not advisable to open because putting back needs to be sent to Stipula!"

which seemed to include the 991 convertible as being problematic to open, which really isn't if care is taken. No problem.

 

I wouldn't open try to open my current production Amber -- which has the same design as your Fiesole and Alter Ego -- either. If it has issues, it's going to Stipula. Then again, I'll probably sell it before then. I don't like the current production Etrurias.

Indeed, don't even try to open them. They can't be unscrewed anyway.

 

Personally, I do like the current production Etrurias, however .

 

The Fiesole Deluxe has become one of my favourites...

 

Warm regards, Wim

[wimg]

Actually I will chime in. If you look closely, you can see a seam just below the threads on the section (specifically on the amber one). From the inside, there is a step showing that they are somehow joined but I was not going to mess with it anymore since I was able to clean it out.

Nope, they are one piece - I had one apart. The step is where the sleeve rests.

Actually, the syringe was great for this, it fit inside the hole of the sleeve and I could get water in there easily and with a little force.

 

I will look at the blind cap area to see if I see anything but I am no longer determined to take it apart since it seems to work, though I still have fill it with ink and test it out. My problem now is to decide what nib to put on which pen. I have a 52 degree, broad and medium nib. One is from my Saturno. And then decide what inks to put into the pens. Finally, wait for my FPN LE to see how the new section shape feels compared to the old ones.

IMO, more comfortable. The convex shape seems to allow comfort for both bigger and smaller hands.

Last question, I read somewhere about the rarer original black celluloid Etruria's. How would I tell if I have one of those or what the black is made from? The amber serial is 756 and the black 1920.

The old model black Etruria, with slightly tapering section, was made from celluloid. The new one is resin. The new one is no longer in production either, BTW. Productions stopped early this year if I am not mistaken, so only the Amber and Alter Ego are current "standard" production models. Oh, the Étéré (2002) was made from black celluloid as well.

Thanks for the discussion thus far,

Erick

Warm regards, Wim

[LMO]

Can somebody look inside an Etruria 991 piston head, and tell me if there is something more then an "O" ring? Mine is not fitting very tight to the section.

 

thanks

[wimg]

Can somebody look inside an Etruria 991 piston head, and tell me if there is something more then an "O" ring? Mine is not fitting very tight to the section.

 

thanks

No, only an O-ring which fits over the feed nipple, that's it, and indeed, it doesn't fit tightly. It doesn't have to, there is no wear on this part.

 

HTH, warm regards, Wim

[LMO]

Can somebody look inside an Etruria 991 piston head, and tell me if there is something more then an "O" ring? Mine is not fitting very tight to the section.

 

thanks

 

Thanks, Wim. In that case I may need to replace the O ring (?), or to replace the converter. I don't think the old brass converters, used for 991, are still in production.

[wimg]

Can somebody look inside an Etruria 991 piston head, and tell me if there is something more then an "O" ring? Mine is not fitting very tight to the section.

 

thanks

 

Thanks, Wim. In that case I may need to replace the O ring (?), or to replace the converter. I don't think the old brass converters, used for 991, are still in production.

Hi Liviu,

 

If it doesn't leak, there is no need to do so. It is not a tight fit to start with. You will only have to replace it if it leaks into the barrel and the top of the section inside the barrel.

 

However, it is worthwhile asking Stipula, they may still have a few spares lying around.

 

HTH, warm regards, Wim