Oblique Nibs

[FredRydr]

Beware the purists on this site. The minute someone says "oblique" they come running with personal views about twisted grips, how to hold or rotate pens, and what the nibs did and didn't do for them. Try them for yourself.

Dylan,

 

I sense talkinghead's frustration with this comment, but I will respond. This is misleading, and probably meant to head off alternate views (the issue comes up from time to time). It's one of those "anecdotes versus research" disputes, and the warning posted above was certainly not in your best interest unless you can get your Montblancs for free. What should interest you is the reason oblique nibs exist in the first place. Oblique nibs are designed to produce a desired line with the pen held in a different manner than a pen with the more common neutral tip. Check out books on calligraphy, or for a short cut and links, look at Richard Binder's reference pages.

 

Borrow and write with some oblique-nibbed pens (italic and otherwise) and keep in mind what you've read. If they work for you, great! If not, you may have saved yourself some aggravation and money.

 

Fred

[Mickey]

Check out books on calligraphy,

 

In particular, Edward Johnston's "Writing, Illuminating, and Lettering," nearly a century old, it is still a standard reference found in most calligraphers' libraries. (If you're ever in a London tube station, Johnston designed the font used on the station name signs.)

 

Though MBs obliques are more stubbish than Aurora's, I believe the link below shows a more accurate depiction of obliques. (I understand, Parker has ceased making cursive contoured obliques, moving toward a stubbish contour, more in line with those produced by [for?] Pelikan and by MB.)

 

http://www.nibs.com/AuroraNibs.htm

 

Disclaimer: I haven't bought anything from nibs.com (a well respected vendor), and I have purchased several pens from Mr. Binder, all of which please me. I just don't believe the information on his site regarding obliques is entirely accurate. Would I still buy pens from him? You bet!: great merchandise and great service.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Mickey

[hollyuk]

I have an OB on my Greta Garbo and also OM and OBs on some of my Lamy Safari's. However I do rotate my pen when I hold it. I would strongly suggest you either get to an MB boutique if you can and try their 146 nib set. If this is not possible certainly get hold of a Lamy Safari and try their nibs - they are cheap and you can change them yourself so if you don't like the nibs you haven't wasted much.

[rockspyder]

I'm just going to sit over here in the corner and be jealous

No, GP, don't be jealous, be inspired! After all, you started it... Admit it, a lot of OB/B+ users here got their first exposure to this nib range from you, myself included. I am forever indebted to thee....

[da vinci]

You should go to your nearest MB boutique and use their 146 test kit. I was very excited about getting OM nib pen until I tried it at and found that I liked OB much more. You won't know until you try it.

 

cheers

 

Wael

 

Agree with this - I found when I tried them that the OM just didnt give enough line variation to make it worthwhile - whereas the OB was excellent.

[Mickey]

You should go to your nearest MB boutique and use their 146 test kit. I was very excited about getting OM nib pen until I tried it at and found that I liked OB much more. You won't know until you try it.

 

cheers

 

Wael

 

Agree with this - I found when I tried them that the OM just didnt give enough line variation to make it worthwhile - whereas the OB was excellent.

 

Right. Without the perfect ink / paper combination, most modern OMs won't show much (if any) line variation. They're too stubbish. OB is usually a better choice for an everyday writer.

[talkinghead]

 

Right. Without the perfect ink / paper combination, most modern OMs won't show much (if any) line variation. They're too stubbish. OB is usually a better choice for an everyday writer.

 

 

Hi Mickey,

 

Not sure I understand this part of your post. Can you give an explaination or your thoughts on stub nibs and the line they should produce.

 

Thanks,

 

Rick

[Mickey]

Right. Without the perfect ink / paper combination, most modern OMs won't show much (if any) line variation. They're too stubbish. OB is usually a better choice for an everyday writer.

 

 

Hi Mickey,

 

Not sure I understand this part of your post. Can you give an explaination or your thoughts on stub nibs and the line they should produce.

 

Thanks,

 

Rick

Sure.

 

A stub nib is a member of the edged pen family, often referred to as italic. A stub is more rounded, than a cursive italic, which is itself more rounded than a formal or crisp italic. Oblique nibs can likewise be stub-like, cursive, or formal, so the following simplified explanation applies to them as well.

 

A formal italic nib typically has an aspect ration of 5 to 1 or greater, that is, its contact patch is at least 5 times as wide as it is thick. A cursive might have an aspect ratio closer to 4, and a stub somewhat lower still. There is no fixed standard, however, so take these ratios as rough guidelines. The shoulders (the edge) of cursive and stub nibs tend to be more rounded than those of crisp italics, the stub roundest of all. Also, small edged pens generally have lower aspect ratios, to keep the narrowest dimension from getting too small, too sharp.

 

(The numbers used in the follow explanation were chosen for mathematical convenience, not taken from any particular pen or paper and ink combination.)

 

Ink spread on a given paper is more or less uniform with distance from the contact patch (the part of the nib touching the paper). So, take a .6mm edged pen with a 3 to 1 ratio and use it with an ink / paper combination with a characteristic spread of .1mm. That means the resulting mark would be .8mm (.6 + .1 + .1) by .4mm (.2 + 1 + .1). The ratio of the mark is now 2 to 1.

 

Now double the size of the nib, but without changing the aspect ratio: 1.2mm by .4mm. The mark from this nib would be (1.2mm + .2mm) by (.4mm + .2mm) = 14 by 6. The ratio of the mark from this nib is 7 by 3 or 2.333 to 1 - just noticeably more dramatic than 2 to 1. However, larger widths typically have higher ratios, retaining the minimum dimension from the smaller size, so the 1.2mm probably has a ratio closer to 6 to 1, yielding a 14 by 4 mark: 3.5 to 1 - definitely more dramatic.

 

Finally, a small, stubbish oblique used with a poor performing paper / ink combination might easily produce a 6 to 4 ratio mark (yielding barely noticeable variation), which if not used in a manner calculated to show its modest variation (e.g., condensed cursive italic), would produce output virtually indistinguishable from that produced by a plain old vanilla M or B.

 

I hope that covers it.

[talkinghead]

Thanks!

 

Does an oblique cut then change the original aspect ratio by itself? Meaning, if the original nib was not a member of the edge family ( stub, cursive italic, formal italic) to begin with, does cutting it into an oblique confer upon it edge properties, ie widening it's aspect ratio?

 

My apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread..Mickey, if you want to respond back channel/pm/email then that's ok.

 

Thanks again,

 

Rick

[sexauerw]

I love both straight and oblique italic nibs. My only Montblanc italic is this old 221 OBB. It has a fair amount of variation and it's as smooth as glass!

 

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sexauerw/Pentrace%20Sundays/Montblanc221.jpg

 

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sexauerw/Pentrace%20Sundays/Montblanc221Nib.jpg

Edited September 5, 2011 by sexauerw

[JefferyS]

An oblique would be slightly wider than if the nib were ground straight across, but not by much. All of my obliques are 15^o, and if it were a 1.0 mm italic to begin with, it would be slightly wider than 1.0 mm. Think of a right triangle with 15^o between the base and the top. The top will have to be a bit longer to intersect the vertical.

 

If it were a 90^o oblique (as you would see with a pie cut into equal fourths), that would be a big difference. But a 15^o oblique would be like a pie cut into 24 pieces. Not a huge angle.

[pmhudepo]

I'm not entirely sure if I understand all the explanations here. Below is a quick sample with my OB nib. I think it shows nice line variation and if I were to buy another pen, I'd want it to behave similar to this one.

 

 

Can you please tell me if this is due to it being a Broad, an Oblique, an Oblique Broad, a nib from 1955, my heavy hand when writing quickly, or some other quality that works out wonderfully for me? (Or a combination of such things.)

Edited September 5, 2011 by pmhudepo

[Mickey]

What provides line variation is a nib with a contact pad which is oblong, i.e., not round. Some manufacturer's Bs are distinctly oblong. (I believe MB has been one of those manufacturers.) Some are not. The contact pads of all obliques FP nibs are distinctly oblong.

 

Being oblique, your nib will put down a variable width line. Being broad, the variation will almost surely be noticeable, even with slightly less than optimum paper and ink choices. Being oblique, the orientation of the thick and thin lines will be rotated relative to a pen equipped with a comparably sized italic nib.

[pmhudepo]

What provides line variation is a nib with a contact pad which is oblong, i.e., not round. Some manufacturer's Bs are distinctly oblong. (I believe MB has been one of those manufacturers.) Some are not. The contact pads of all obliques FP nibs are distinctly oblong.

 

Being oblique, your nib will put down a variable width line. Being broad, the variation will almost surely be noticeable, even with slightly less than optimum paper and ink choices. Being oblique, the orientation of the thick and thin lines will be rotated relative to a pen equipped with a comparably sized italic nib.

 

Thank you for the clarification! And "less than optimum paper and ink choices" -- not to mention my current writing skills, although I am working on those

[jslallar]

I am in a habit of carrying two pens inked at a time. And I try to have them of the same type or of similar balance and weight. I often use my Targas, Parker 45s and MB 146s with B and OB nibs at the same time and changing from one to the other has never been a problem. I feel that your hand automatically adjusts to the opbliquity of the nibs, and you continue writing without much thoughtful effort to change your writing style. The words put down though do visibly change in character and and the lie variations do become more pronounced making the writing look prettier.

 

One thing though. To write with a Oblique nib and to enjoy the line variation I feel you aught to have a big hand writing. Smaller words will not show the ffect that well, at least that is what I think. Others may want to differ. I have both an OM and an OB 146 on sale now in the classifieds if you are interested.

[Wael El-Dasher]

(SNIP) Others may want to differ. I have both an OM and an OB 146 on sale now in the classifieds if you are interested.

 

Man...you drive a hard sell. Whenever a thread mentions 146 or OB nibs you mention you're selling these pens Sorry, I couldn't resist. ....Best of luck with the sales.

 

Going back to the OP, I've never paid too much attention to what most say about hand angles when using OB nibs, I've found B and OB nibs just as equally accommodating to my writing style, but more importantly, for me anyway, my drawing style. Since I primarily use FP to sketch on trace, I change angles all the time.

 

Another thing to consider is that vintage OB & B nibs are not the same as modern equivalents. I've found, in the pens I have at least, that vintage OB & B nibs are narrower and much more crisp. Their flex gives me more line variations but more importantly, the difference between downwards strokes and horizontal strokes is much more pronounced in vintage nibs. Which leads me to the theory...my "Ah ha!" moment if you will...that modern OB & B nibs are intentionally wider than their vintage cousins due to the lack (or decrease) in flex.

 

Just my observations for what it's worth...

 

cheers

 

Wael

[Mickey]

 

 

One thing though. To write with a Oblique nib and to enjoy the line variation I feel you aught to have a big hand writing. Smaller words will not show the ffect that well, at least that is what I think.

 

Size does matter, but possibly more important is choosing lettering styles and slant angles calculated to display the nib's gamut of variation, especially its thinnest stroke. In italic hands, the thinnest strokes are typically the joins (in cursive hands) and the 'diagonal' stroke found in "a" and similar. Getting the nib's thinnest stroke to align with these strokes is key to making italic nibs (including L obliques) to speak.

[Bo Bo Olson]

The standard sized MB 234 1/2 Deluxe ('52-55 only, mine 55 because or the feed) 14 C semi-flex KOB; 15 degree.

 

It is a Waverly tip sort of nib. It is a writing nib , not a modern fat 'signature' nib.

 

I originally thought is some weird ugly MB. I now like the '30's styling more than the 146-9.

 

I've always liked the nib. Between the nib, the girth, the brass piston back weighting...it is my number 1 nib/pen.

 

I do have some other nibs that are @ as good. If one is lucky one can get 10 grand nibs. Half my top 10 are oblique of one sort or another.

 

I have a modern 18 K MB Wolfe that nib made it up to place 12.

It's not in the same class as my '55 MB.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Bo Bo Olson

[Pen Nut]

Right. Without the perfect ink / paper combination, most modern OMs won't show much (if any) line variation. They're too stubbish. OB is usually a better choice for an everyday writer.

 

 

Hi Mickey,

 

Not sure I understand this part of your post. Can you give an explaination or your thoughts on stub nibs and the line they should produce.

 

Thanks,

 

Rick

Sure.

 

A stub nib is a member of the edged pen family, often referred to as italic. A stub is more rounded, than a cursive italic, which is itself more rounded than a formal or crisp italic. Oblique nibs can likewise be stub-like, cursive, or formal, so the following simplified explanation applies to them as well.

 

A formal italic nib typically has an aspect ration of 5 to 1 or greater, that is, its contact patch is at least 5 times as wide as it is thick. A cursive might have an aspect ratio closer to 4, and a stub somewhat lower still. There is no fixed standard, however, so take these ratios as rough guidelines. The shoulders (the edge) of cursive and stub nibs tend to be more rounded than those of crisp italics, the stub roundest of all. Also, small edged pens generally have lower aspect ratios, to keep the narrowest dimension from getting too small, too sharp.

 

(The numbers used in the follow explanation were chosen for mathematical convenience, not taken from any particular pen or paper and ink combination.)

 

Ink spread on a given paper is more or less uniform with distance from the contact patch (the part of the nib touching the paper). So, take a .6mm edged pen with a 3 to 1 ratio and use it with an ink / paper combination with a characteristic spread of .1mm. That means the resulting mark would be .8mm (.6 + .1 + .1) by .4mm (.2 + 1 + .1). The ratio of the mark is now 2 to 1.

 

Now double the size of the nib, but without changing the aspect ratio: 1.2mm by .4mm. The mark from this nib would be (1.2mm + .2mm) by (.4mm + .2mm) = 14 by 6. The ratio of the mark from this nib is 7 by 3 or 2.333 to 1 - just noticeably more dramatic than 2 to 1. However, larger widths typically have higher ratios, retaining the minimum dimension from the smaller size, so the 1.2mm probably has a ratio closer to 6 to 1, yielding a 14 by 4 mark: 3.5 to 1 - definitely more dramatic.

 

Finally, a small, stubbish oblique used with a poor performing paper / ink combination might easily produce a 6 to 4 ratio mark (yielding barely noticeable variation), which if not used in a manner calculated to show its modest variation (e.g., condensed cursive italic), would produce output virtually indistinguishable from that produced by a plain old vanilla M or B.

 

I hope that covers it.

 

Thats very informative and thanks for posting. I may have to re-read it a few times to let it sink in though !