The Classic Tripod Grip

[Atrata]

  On 8/6/2011 at 2:24 AM, uzkntuocmw said:

I use something similar to the tripod, but instead of resting on my middle finger, I rest on my fourth, and have the second and middle finger lightly on top. I've been told it's highly odd, but it seems to allow me to write much more quickly and requires less pressure on the pen to get the same amount of control. Does anyone else do this?

 

That would be me. This is exactly how I hold my pen; I just can't seem to get comfortable with it any other way.

[Atrata]

  On 8/6/2011 at 12:02 PM, Atrata said:

  On 8/6/2011 at 2:24 AM, uzkntuocmw said:

I use something similar to the tripod, but instead of resting on my middle finger, I rest on my fourth, and have the second and middle finger lightly on top. I've been told it's highly odd, but it seems to allow me to write much more quickly and requires less pressure on the pen to get the same amount of control. Does anyone else do this?

 

That would be me. This is exactly how I hold my pen; I just can't seem to get comfortable with it any other way.

(since I can't edit this at this point) I've been trying again, mainly because I have a sneaking suspicion that my grip may have damaged one of my favourite pens. These pix, and Caliken's, have helped a lot. It still feels strange to me, but at least I seem to be able to control the pen.

[Shaughn]

  On 8/3/2011 at 2:49 PM, Blizzard42 said:

How do I know I'm doing a death grip?

 

You know you're doing a death grip if and when:

 

1 - you squeeze a pen, i.e use unnecessary force to keep it.

2 - you cannot write about an inch length of text without moving your wrist. That is, (for a right-handed person:)a fully stretched thumb and index finger holding and steering the pen and a middle finger just sustaining it (carrying its weight) should cover about an inch of writing before it is necessary to move your hand to the right. When your thumb and index finger are getting curved so that your hand is beginning to be tilted, you have to move your hand.

 

Thumb and index finger do the steering, make the movements, do the writing, the other finger "carries the weight", prevents slippng away from between thumb and indexfinger (which is bound to happen when writing) and keeps the nib at the right angle on the paper.

 

That is how I was tought to write.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Shaughn

[Mickey]

  On 8/7/2011 at 10:13 PM, Shaughn said:

  On 8/3/2011 at 2:49 PM, Blizzard42 said:

How do I know I'm doing a death grip?

 

You know you're doing a death grip if and when:

 

1 - you squeeze a pen, i.e use unnecessary force to keep it.

2 - you cannot write about an inch length of text without moving your wrist. That is, (for a right-handed person:)a fully stretched thumb and index finger holding and steering the pen and a middle finger just sustaining it (carrying its weight) should cover about an inch of writing before it is necessary to move your hand to the right. When your thumb and index finger are getting curved so that your hand is beginning to be tilted, you have to move your hand.

 

Thumb and index finger do the steering, make the movements, do the writing, the other finger "carries the weight", prevents slippng away from between thumb and indexfinger (which is bound to happen when writing) and keeps the nib at the right angle on the paper.

 

That is how I was tought to write.

 

The technique you describe would have a formal italic or Hunt 101 taking divots out of the paper, not to mention springing nibs. Your 1st bullet point is spot on, but the hand (riding on the nails of the last 1-3 finger nails) should be free to slide continuously. Moving the paper every inch or so, as some (many, most?) of the golden age penman did, was mostly to maintain alignment of eye and nib.

 

Check this out. The writer's fingers remain quiet and supple, while the hand moves freely.

 

[troglokev]

  On 8/6/2011 at 3:17 AM, Skyclad said:

And this is my tripod grip with just enough pressure so the top of the pen doesn't move when I write, or feel like its going to slip out:

First of all, my apologies for not getting back to you sooner: I was at SIGGRAPH at the time of your post. If you compare your grip to mine:

 

 

You'll see that your thumb is further down the pen than mine. This is the source of the problem: your thumb levers the pen away from your knuckle.

 

To illustrate, here's a diagram of the points of contact sketched from your photograph.

 

 

Beside it is the equivalent lever, projected along the line mf, between forefinger and middle finger. The force you apply with your thumb at t lifts the pen away from your knuckle at k.

 

If you straighten your fingers a little more (enough so that the support points are further down the pen than your thumb) it should feel a lot better.

 

Here's the same thing done with my grip. Note that t is now between mf and k.

 

 

Again, the equivalent lever is shown, projected along mf. Because t is now between the supports, there is no tendency for the pen to move. Very little force is required to hold the pen in place.

 

A tripod operates on the same principle (hence the name).

Edited August 24, 2011 by troglokev

[agchristie]

I also use the tripod grip although as a child everyone was always telling me that it was a bad grip but couldnt change it. However doesnt anyone get a bump on their middle finger joint where the pen rests? After long writing sessions this bump hurts and if I write a lot over a period of time this bump becomes larger. I have started to put a plaster on the middle finger whenever I am writing a lot which helps considerably. However I would be interested to know if there is any remedy for this problem?

[fuchsiaprincess]

  On 8/3/2011 at 3:48 AM, watch_art said:

wow kev. You have HUGE hands. great photos and excellent demonstration of a good grip.

 

All the better to ……. you with :roflmho:

[fuchsiaprincess]

Thank you very much, Kev

[Bo Bo Olson]

If you read what I say about the forefinger up version of the 'classic' tripod; the first thing I do is move the pen down the first middle forefinger joint between 1/4-1/3 of an inch, so it is out of the painful dent or callus.

 

In that the version of a Tripod I use, with the forefinger up, the pressure needed to hold the pen is featherless baby bird light.

 

I agree that your thumb is too far down the pen. When I do not post the pen, the end of my thumb is @ the last 1/3 of the first forefinger joint.Depending on the weight of the pen is @ 45 degrees; behind the first knuckle.

 

When I post a pen, my thumb moves further up the pen, so it is even with the first finger crease.

The balance point is now a tad back, so the pen will lay at a deeper in the web of the thumb.

A heavy or back weighted brass piston pen can end up the in the depth of the web of the thumb.

I do not try to make a pen lay anywhere in the in the web of the thumb, out side of where it wishes to lie due to it's own weight. One can if one wishes.

(I was taught or thought the fountain pen should be in the depth of the web of the thumb. I don't think that is an absolute necessity; because also some nibs are ground a bit high. )

 

I let the pen find it's own place. A lighter pen will be higher, a heavier pen will be deeper in the web of the thumb.

 

It is very easy to hold a fountain pen as lightly as a featherless baby bird with the forefinger up version of the tripod grip.

It took me two minutes to learn this, and it was totally natural to let the pen rest in my hand....as I say in my grasp.

 

I do not like the phrase; 'grip the pen', that word to me suggests, grabbing on hard, as left over from plowing the south forty with out a mule from wood pencil and ball point days.

 

With the forefinger up at 12, 12:30, or 13:00, that finger weight alone with no pressure ensnares the pen, between the thumb pad that is only bracing the pen, not pressing to hold it as in a 10-2-6 tripod.

Call it a 09:30-12:30-6 way of holding or grasping.

 

To me that makes a big difference. My middle fore finger joint only hurts if I grab a pen a pen like I use to...the nerve is still damaged enough that even after a year or a year and a half it hurts if the pen is placed at the nail junction and any pressure is applied.

It's not much....just the difference between when held lower the awareness of weight or when held where it use to be held in a tripod grip the awareness of faint pain.

 

My had does not tire nor cramp from excesses pressure any more.

 

Many claim to have cured them selves of gripping a pen hard in tripod. I couldn't ... I was still operating with 50 years of doing it the hard way, when I was shown the forefinger up way of grasping a pen.

 

If regular 10-2-6 tripod don't work for you, try a 09:30-12:30-6 way of holding or grasping a pen.

[troglokev]

  On 8/24/2011 at 10:15 AM, silexink said:

I also use the tripod grip although as a child everyone was always telling me that it was a bad grip but couldnt change it. However doesnt anyone get a bump on their middle finger joint where the pen rests? After long writing sessions this bump hurts and if I write a lot over a period of time this bump becomes larger. I have started to put a plaster on the middle finger whenever I am writing a lot which helps considerably. However I would be interested to know if there is any remedy for this problem?

I used to have that in the early 1980s, when I used a ballpoint. I haven't had it since 1983, when I switched over to fountain pens, fixed the hold, and realised that I no longer had to squeeze the pen quite so hard.

[agchristie]

Well I do try and hold it only very lightly especially as I have a very light touch when writing but somehow after a period of time my grip gets stronger and stronger without me knowing how or why.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Try the forefinger up method. You have nothing to lose, but a tight grip.

[Blooze]

  On 8/6/2011 at 2:24 AM, uzkntuocmw said:

I use something similar to the tripod, but instead of resting on my middle finger, I rest on my fourth, and have the second and middle finger lightly on top. I've been told it's highly odd, but it seems to allow me to write much more quickly and requires less pressure on the pen to get the same amount of control. Does anyone else do this? And is there any particular reason I shouldn't?

 

That's how I've always held a pen/pencil, but I"m finding as I've just started using FP's that my grip is way to tight, so I'm gonna give the tripod grip a try for a while. Feels strange, but if it improves my handwriting all the better.

 

 

Thanks for the images!!!

 

 

[pmhudepo]

This thread is very useful!

 

I am improving my handwriting and always thought I had a good tripod grip on my pen, but threads like these help me fine-tune. I particularly appreciate this post, showing the difference in thumb positions with the additional illustrations. Just a small detail that I had missed and that I have since paid attention in my recent writing sessions. (Still very easy for the old habits to creep back in, though.)

 

-- Patrick

 

 

  On 8/24/2011 at 8:24 AM, troglokev said:

  On 8/6/2011 at 3:17 AM, Skyclad said:

And this is my tripod grip with just enough pressure so the top of the pen doesn't move when I write, or feel like its going to slip out:

First of all, my apologies for not getting back to you sooner: I was at SIGGRAPH at the time of your post. If you compare your grip to mine:

 

 

You'll see that your thumb is further down the pen than mine. This is the source of the problem: your thumb levers the pen away from your knuckle.

 

To illustrate, here's a diagram of the points of contact sketched from your photograph.

 

 

Beside it is the equivalent lever, projected along the line mf, between forefinger and middle finger. The force you apply with your thumb at t lifts the pen away from your knuckle at k.

 

If you straighten your fingers a little more (enough so that the support points are further down the pen than your thumb) it should feel a lot better.

 

Here's the same thing done with my grip. Note that t is now between mf and k.

 

 

Again, the equivalent lever is shown, projected along mf. Because t is now between the supports, there is no tendency for the pen to move. Very little force is required to hold the pen in place.

 

A tripod operates on the same principle (hence the name).

Edited August 29, 2011 by pmhudepo

[..lol..]

I started practising with the tripod grip with my Lamy Safari, it's the only comfortable grip with that pen! and now on, I use it with all of my pens without thinking about it.

[armod]

am I doing this right?

 

I think it might be off slightly

 

Edited July 20, 2012 by armod

[Vignette]

Thank you so much, troglokev, I really needed this

 

(And thanks, armod, for bumping this, so I noticed it!)

[Bo Bo Olson]

  On 8/24/2011 at 10:15 AM, silexink said:

I also use the tripod grip although as a child everyone was always telling me that it was a bad grip but couldnt change it. However doesnt anyone get a bump on their middle finger joint where the pen rests? After long writing sessions this bump hurts and if I write a lot over a period of time this bump becomes larger. I have started to put a plaster on the middle finger whenever I am writing a lot which helps considerably. However I would be interested to know if there is any remedy for this problem?

 

 

The forefinger up method I mentioned, that starts with moving the pen 1/4-1/3" down the first finger joint away from the bump, dent, callus.

 

As soon as I tried this, the dent in my finger stopped hurting, because the pen was no longer pressed hard into the flesh.

Only took me 50 years to get rid of the Tripod Death Grip.

 

Grasping the pen like holding a featherless baby bird is automatic.

No more Bird Paste.

[troglokev]

  On 7/20/2012 at 7:22 AM, armod said:

am I doing this right?

 

I think it might be off slightly

 

Only slightly. I wouldn't change much, but you can let your fingers relax a bit. In particular, the forefinger is showing the strain (inverted knuckle). Try this: pick up your pen, lift your forefinger off it, and put it back on the pen a millimeter or two further down, and more gently this time.

[fitzharry]

I use the classic tripod grip, although my thumb is slightly higher, around the first joint of my forefinger.

 

It's interesting and surprising to me to see how folks are holding their pens WAY down near the nibs! I was always taught that holding them that close to the paper was incorrect, and we were taught to hold the pen much higher. Consequently, my middle finger (upon which the pen rests) touches the threads on the pen and NEVER touches the section, since that is too low for me, and it touches just near the tip of my middle finger, not at the crease.

 

One question for those who have shown photos using the 4-finger "death grip": were you taught to handle pens that way or did you just come to do it that way yourself? I'm just curious to know whether you were taught penmanship in elementary school or not.