History Of Sailor's 1911 And Mont Blancs Miesterstuck

[kahhoewan]

Anyone know who came up with the design of both their pens which look very similar to each other.

 

To my knowledge, MB was founded in 1908 but didn't release their Miesterstruck line line until 1924. Sailor was founded in 1911 but not to sure when their design for 1911 came out.

 

Any thoughts?

[jar]

Well, the cigar shaped MB 149 that seems iconic dates to the early 1950s.

[kahhoewan]

Well, the cigar shaped MB 149 that seems iconic dates to the early 1950s.

 

If MBs design of their Meisterstuck as not change since first introduced then that sounds about right. As their Cigar shape pen called Meisterstuck come out first in 1924.

[jar]

Well, the cigar shaped MB 149 that seems iconic dates to the early 1950s.

 

If MBs design of their Meisterstuck as not change since first introduced then that sounds about right. As their Cigar shape pen called Meisterstuck come out first in 1924.

 

It has changed and changed often. The Meisterstuck was never a design but only the price point in their lineup. The earlier ones were more flat top designs similar to the Parker, Sheaffer and Waterman pens of the 20s and 30s. The streamlined models started to appear in the 40s driven largely by the success of the Sheaffer Balance pens and then were dropped during the 60s and 70s for slim flat ended semi hooded pens across the Meisterstuck lines except for the 149. Then in the 70s MB returned to the streamlined version for their top end as they gradually reduced the middle and entry level offerings.

[kahhoewan]

Well, the cigar shaped MB 149 that seems iconic dates to the early 1950s.

 

If MBs design of their Meisterstuck as not change since first introduced then that sounds about right. As their Cigar shape pen called Meisterstuck come out first in 1924.

 

It has changed and changed often. The Meisterstuck was never a design but only the price point in their lineup. The earlier ones were more flat top designs similar to the Parker, Sheaffer and Waterman pens of the 20s and 30s. The streamlined models started to appear in the 40s driven largely by the success of the Sheaffer Balance pens and then were dropped during the 60s and 70s for slim flat ended semi hooded pens across the Meisterstuck lines except for the 149. Then in the 70s MB returned to the streamlined version for their top end as they gradually reduced the middle and entry level offerings.

 

Ahhh...I see, Good to know. Now the question is when Sailors 1911 series first came out with their cigar shape design.

[Silent Speaker]

From what I've managed to discern from random readings on this site's various sections is that the first to use a tapered shape was Sheaffer in their Balance model, like Jar has already stated above.

 

However, MB's taper is a little different, and the Sailor 1911 follows this kind of taper (some would say a little 'too closely' ).

 

I remember reading in the Japanese section that the Sailor 1911 you're talking about came out in the mid 80's or so, there is a Sailor timeline somewhere on the net (maybe the Sailor main site) where you might be able to verify this. So the MB cigar definitely predates the 1911's.

 

So it definitely goes Sheaffer -> Montblanc -> Sailor, with the latter two being more similar in shape than the first one.

Edited July 23, 2011 by Silent Speaker

[AltecGreen]

From what I've managed to discern from random readings on this site's various sections is that the first to use a tapered shape was Sheaffer in their Balance model, like Jar has already stated above.

 

However, MB's taper is a little different, and the Sailor 1911 follows this kind of taper (some would say a little 'too closely' ).

 

I remember reading in the Japanese section that the Sailor 1911 you're talking about came out in the mid 80's or so, there is a Sailor timeline somewhere on the net (maybe the Sailor main site) where you might be able to verify this. So the MB cigar definitely predates the 1911's.

 

So it definitely goes Sheaffer -> Montblanc -> Sailor, with the latter two being more similar in shape than the first one.

 

 

 

This is a tricky question because there are very few people on this forum who pay attention to vintage (pre-war) Japanese pens and very little discussion about such pens on FPN.

 

It is certainly true that the current cigar shaped pens offered by the Japanese big three (Pilot, Platinum, Sailor) date to the 80's. One can take a look at the late 60's and 70's catalogs and see very different styles of pens. The introduction of the Pilot Elite in 1963 changed the Japanese pen market. All three manufacturers lines featured a lot of long short pens. The pens in the 70's mostly had flat tops.

 

Stan has some pics and catalogs on his site

 

http://ryojusen-pens.com/28.html

http://ryojusen-pens.com/27.html

http://ryojusen-pens.com/26.html

 

Compare these to the modern catalogs. Interesting change in taste.

 

But if you look at earlier pens from 1930 to the early 1950's, most manufacturers sold cigar shaped pens. If you thumb through Andreas Lambrou's "Fountain Pens of the World" and look at the vintage Japanese pens, you will find many example of cigar shaped pens dating to around 1931. I own a number of vintage Japanese pens that date to the 1930's with cigar shaped bodies. Cigar shaped bodies were fairly common among the Japanese makers in the 1930's and there were hundreds of makers in that era. Most were ebonite with a layer of black urushi although some came in colorful celluloid.

 

The interesting question is that I don't have any photos of vintage Sailors from the 1930's. So it is unclear how prevalent cigar shaped pens were in the Sailor catalog (if any at all). I don't come across vintage Sailor from that era very often. All of my early Sailors date to after 1940. Perhaps more light will be shed when Andreas Lambrou publishes "Fountain Pens of Japan" next year.

 

So it is true that the current lines of cigar shaped pens from Sailor, Platinum, Pilot date to about the 1980's. So in that sense they came after MB since the 149 has been in production since the 1950's. However, cigar shaped pens were made certainly pre-war. The earliest examples date to late 1930 to 1931. This seems to pre-date MB's use of such a shape unless there is an example of a 1930's MD that had the cigar shape. The MB pens I see from that era had the old dome top or a flat top.

 

 

 

There are very few original pen shapes out except for pens that get belittled on FPN (e.g. Krone, Jean Pierre Lepin, etc.) Pens follow fashion and change with time.