In Praise Of Dish Soap

[DanielB]

We are all used to watch those boring commercials about the wonders and superpower of dish soap. Although their marketing strategy is well thought, still they seem to miss the most important point. I'll share with you.

 

Yesterday night i was writing with a pen filled with Lamy Blue-Black, the "driest" ink I own. I like this ink because it works so well with some of my pens and papers. For instance, I use it regularly for my Moleskine pocket journal which can hardly tolerate any other ink. I thought it would be nice if one could make that ink a bit smoother and free flowing without worsening much the other good properties it possesses. Following some posts I read about on the forum, I decided to add just a tiny amount of dish soap to the remaining ink in my bottle. Really tiny amount. The results couldn't have been more surprising. That ink now had become a joy to write with. Very lubricating and free flowing. After trying on my Moleskine I saw that, although the wetness and drying time had increased, the final effect was still good for the purpose. No bleedthrough or feathering. In addition, because it flows so well, now the amount of ink that goes onto the page is higher, and hence it looks like if you were writing with a more saturated ink.

 

So if you have a pen which doesn't work really well with an ink because it feels too dry, I would recommend this trick in order to adjust the flow to your liking. The amount of soap you need is very very tiny. As a remainder, to be on the safe side it is better to play around with inks in a dedicated container. Check well before putting any mixture in any of your pens, that this still keeps its consistency.

 

Your Mileage Will Vary

Daniel

Edited July 8, 2011 by DanielB

[bluemagister]

SDS is miracle stuff, indeed! I like unscented dish soap for pen purposes.

[Lorna Reed]

I too add a tiny drop of washing up liquid (dish soap) to some inks with very good results. Have been doing so for quite a while with no problems.

[Tennessee Dave]

Being a newbie I can see that there is a lot to learn. Thanks for the tip.

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

To increase the wetness (flow) of Lamy Blue-Black in bottles, I suggest adding some of the cartridge version of that ink. (Also applies to Montblanc Midnight Blue: add some of the cartridge version of that ink.)

 

While I certainly agree that washing-up liquid can do wonders, soaps can leave residue; and the product may contain ingredients that are not FP-friendly in the longer term. In its place, I have used Kodak Photo-Flo, (used in archival processing of photo film), with great confidence that it will wash away easily and does not contain aggressive cleaning agents. Dilution rates are miniscule; preparation of a working solution may best be achieved at home by progressive dilution.

 

Bye,

S1

 

EDIT - To add:

• Lamy Blue-Black cartridge ink: INK LINK
• MB Midnight Blue cartridge ink: INK LINK

Edited July 7, 2011 by Sandy1

[ticoun]

i have some 80's sheaffer blue-black carts, and this ink is incredibly dry. my 330, which is always wet, skipped and dried out all the time with it. i took a needle, diped it in dishsoap, then in the ink, and it made the ink nice and wet, just enough to have great shading.

[WOBentley]

  On 7/7/2011 at 2:37 PM, Sandy1 said:

Hi,

 

In its place, I have used Kodak Photo-Flo, (used in archival processing of photo film), with great confidence that it will wash away easily and does not contain aggressive cleaning agents. Dilution rates are miniscule; preparation of a working solution may best be achieved at home by progressive dilution.

 

Bye,

S1

 

Ok...you have my interest! I have a darkroom in my house that sees infrequent use now that digital has come so far (although a good gelatin silver print is hard to beat for artistic expression)...What amt of photoflow would you add to the ink? For the sake of discussion let's choose a 50cc bottle of ink as the ink supply you wish to add it to....I realize it varies somewhat, but if you have a starting point that would be very helpful indeed!

The stuff you learn here is amazing!

[Sandy1]

  On 7/8/2011 at 2:05 AM, WOBentley said:

  On 7/7/2011 at 2:37 PM, Sandy1 said:

...

I have used Kodak Photo-Flo,

...

...

What amt of photoflow would you add to the ink?

...

Hi,

 

I do not intend to derail or shanghai this Thread, so I shall be brief and forego the suggestions for wardrobe & accessories. To minimise measuring inaccuracies, this is based on workable volumes at low concentration. As this is rough work, please do not pick the nits of this Post in this Thread. If found useful, feel free to use it as a template/guide to generate other versions to post in another Thread.

 

Materiel:

• Kodak Photo-Flo 200 or Ilford 'Ilfotol'.
• Two syringes calibrated in ml.
• Three 50 ml (ink) bottles.
• Swizzle-stick stir thingy.
• Pen: Either c/c or Pelikan M-series or similar - with removable nib, piston fill and large ink capacity. The relative wetness to the 'target' pen should be known.
• Distilled / demineralised water.

Progressive Dilution:

Method:

 

- Step One

1. Draw 2.5 ml of P-F; place that in empty 50 ml bottle.
2. Add water to that bottle - bringing volume to about 50 ml.
3. Mix without creating foam.
4. Label bottle 'P-F 5%'.
5. Stow P-F bottle safely away from children.
6. Rinse syringe & stir thingy.

- Step Two

1. Draw 5 ml of the 5%; place that in empty 50 ml bottle.
2. Add water to that bottle - bringing volume to about 50 ml.
3. Mix without creating foam.
4. Label bottle as 'P-F 0.5% Solution'.
5. Stow the bottle 'P-F 5%' safely away from children.
6. Rinse syringe & stir thingy.

Tuning the Ink

 

Now comes the tedium, so take notes - at least a tally stick.

It is still trial & error, so ...

• Draw 10 ml. of the guinea pig ink; place that in empty 50 ml bottle.
• Rinse the syringe.

-

• Draw 1 ml of the P-F 0.5% Solution.
• From the syringe, add drops of the P-F 0.5% Solution to the gpi, and stir.
• Run a sample through the pen onto the intended paper after each dosing of say 5 drops are added.
• Flush pen repeatedly with each new mix before running sample of about 8x8 cm. Return ink from pen to the mixing bottle as you progress.
• Label the sample with the number of drops added, and retain that sample.

-

• If all of the 1 ml of the P-F 0.5% Solution is used without achieving desired results, then it may be necessary to go again using a 1% Solution.
• If few drops of the P-F 0.5% Solution are required, then it may be advisable to go again using a 0.2% Solution.

-

• Go a bit beyond the desired level of wetness, then draw 1 ml of fresh gpi and mix to total in the mixing bottle.
• Ink-up the target pen, and see how she goes.

=

I encourage Member/s to undertake the task of going through this or some other repeatable method; and post results with documentation, written samples, wet tests, smear/dry times, charts, graphs, etc.

 

I believe such a method may be quite useful to those using the Platinum mixing inks.

 

Bye,

S1

 

EDIT - To add:

Perhaps individual Members and/or businesses offering ink samples could offer small volumes of P-F. (?)

Edited July 8, 2011 by Sandy1

[sotto2]

Jumpin' Jiminy. I know this is an old thread, but it got linked to in a more recent thread and is topical once again.

 

Instead of mixing and trying all these solutions, how about just dipping the tip of a needle in some Photoflo and then into an ink bottle. Will that, generally speaking, appropriately increase the flow of many/most inks for a nice juicy line?

[Gloucesterman]

  On 6/8/2014 at 3:00 PM, sotto2 said:

Jumpin' Jiminy. I know this is an old thread, but it got linked to in a more recent thread and is topical once again.

 

Instead of mixing and trying all these solutions, how about just dipping the tip of a needle in some Photoflo and then into an ink bottle. Will that, generally speaking, appropriately increase the flow of many/most inks for a nice juicy line?

Actually, I was wondering the same thing!

 

On a somewhat different note, did you hear the one about the urologist who used "flomax" to help his drier inks flow better. (It's an inside joke -

[Sandy1]

  On 6/8/2014 at 3:00 PM, sotto2 said:

Jumpin' Jiminy. I know this is an old thread, but it got linked to in a more recent thread and is topical once again.

 

Instead of mixing and trying all these solutions, how about just dipping the tip of a needle in some Photoflo and then into an ink bottle. Will that, generally speaking, appropriately increase the flow of many/most inks for a nice juicy line?

 

Hi,

 

Gadzooks - it's your ink, so fly at it!!

 

I reckon that you'll not invoke an event horizon by doing so. My SWAG is that it'll be OK.

 

Or try it with half a bottle, then go from there - pin-heads and bottles are pretty random units of volume, but why not?

 

 

Wheee²

 

Bye,

S1

Edited June 8, 2014 by Sandy1

[ac12]

 

  On 6/8/2014 at 3:00 PM, sotto2 said:

Jumpin' Jiminy. I know this is an old thread, but it got linked to in a more recent thread and is topical once again.

 

Instead of mixing and trying all these solutions, how about just dipping the tip of a needle in some Photoflo and then into an ink bottle. Will that, generally speaking, appropriately increase the flow of many/most inks for a nice juicy line?

 

I think the problem here is duplicating the amount of PF on the needle. You just don't know how much PF is on the needle.

Sandy's idea of diluting give you a measurable and repeatable way to add PF to the ink.

[sotto2]

  On 6/8/2014 at 6:00 PM, ac12 said:

 

 

I think the problem here is duplicating the amount of PF on the needle. You just don't know how much PF is on the needle.

Sandy's idea of diluting give you a measurable and repeatable way to add PF to the ink.

 

Well, with all due respect to Sandy, her way gives me a major headache. Pls see (my) next post here, thx.

Edited June 8, 2014 by sotto2

[lapis]

and that'd be....................

[sotto2]

  On 6/8/2014 at 5:12 PM, Sandy1 said:

Gadzooks - it's your ink, so fly at it!!

 

I reckon that you'll not invoke an event horizon by doing so. My SWAG is that it'll be OK...

 

OK, I did as you suggested and picked up a bottle of Photoflo ($8.99 for 16 fl. ounces from Samy's Camera here). I couldn't find a needle in my haystack, but I did find a thinnish paperclip, which I dipped in the undiluted bottle of Photoflo and then placed into a Lamy ink cartridge that was half-full of Waterman Havana Brown (Absolute Brown now) ink. I placed the cartridge back in the Lamy Accent Brilliant M nib pen that had been writing rather dry-ly, and almost instantly the flow increased substantially to very juicy, but not blobby. The saturation also increased substantially so that it almost looked like I was writing with chocolate. If you've seen that youtube video of Peter Unbehauen (sp?) writing close-up with ink that looks 3D, that's the way it looked when I wrote. After 10 mins or so, the pen has settled down and there's a wee bit of shading to the chocolate. Next time I'll only try a dipped needle point in a full cartridge of ink which should cut the Photoflo dose to about half of what I tried.

 

So, bottom line, dipping a paperclip straight into Photoflo and then into an ink cartridge worked just fine to significantly (IMHO) increase ink flow and saturation.

Edited June 8, 2014 by sotto2

[stephanos]

This looks interesting. So I can take my bottle of Lamy Blue and turn it into a wetter ink by adding a little "dish soap".

 

First question: am I correct that "dish soap" is a synonym for "washing-up liquid" or "dishwashing liquid" - something like the well-known brand, Fairy Liquid?

 

Second question: there's been great precision about how much Photo-Flo to use (thank you, Sandy1), but the best I can see for dish soap is "a really tiny amount".

For those who have done this, what does a "really tiny amount" mean? I dislike the flow of my Lamy ink enough to be prepared to stick the end-of-a-pin's worth of soap into the bottle - repeat as needed, following a trial and error approach. But I'd rather have a better guide if possible.

 

Thank you

[Lorna Reed]

I use Fairy Liquid. I recently used it in a bottle (half full) of Iroshizuku Fuyu gaki, which was too dry in an Edison Collier pen.

Just one tiny drop, dripped from the Fairy Liquid bottle into the ink bottle, and stirred.

Not very precise but it worked and now the ink is free flowing with no hard starting problems. I wouldn't recommend this method though, and I'm sure others will have much more precise methods of adding dish soap to ink.

[sotto2]

  On 6/8/2014 at 10:43 PM, Lorna Reed said:

I use Fairy Liquid. I recently used it in a bottle (half full) of Iroshizuku Fuyu gaki...

Just one tiny drop, dripped from the Fairy Liquid bottle into the ink bottle, and stirred....

 

For now, I'm going to stick with adding Photoflo to ink cartridges or converters rather than ink bottles in case the dosage is inappropriate and I have to discard the ink.

[amberleadavis]

Sandy - your suggestion is now an InkyTOD - feel free to modify or correct.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/268124-inky-t-o-d-improving-ink-flow-make-a-dry-writing-ink-wetter-or-help-ignition-problems/

[Oldane]

Having now gained some experience with Photoflo myself, I'd like to revive this old thread with my findings:

 

I have tried using dish washing soap with some of my iron-gall inks which are by nature slowly flowing (due to high surface tension). It resulted in setting of a sticky iron-gall sediment which clinged to the inside of bottles and pens (mayby due to some additive other than the surfactant). It was posiible to clean it out with Q-tips, but it was a annoying. So no more dishwashing sopp in iron-gall inks for me.

 

Instead I bought a bottle of Photoflo 200 and so far it seems to work better. I begin with diluting Photoflo 1ml to 50ml water. This dilution is then added to 50ml of ink in ½ml increments until the desired result is reached. How much to use is depending on the pen, the ink and personal taste. For R&K Salix and a specific Pelikan nib I have good results with 1½ml of the 1:50 dilution in 50ml of ink. With Akkerman no. 10 I have used 1 ml of the dilution in a 60ml bottle of ink (but maybe ½ml would have been enough). I use injection syringes (with needles on them - eases sucking up fluid from bottles). If you are working with smaller amounts of ink than whole bottles, you may want to dilute the Photoflo more than 1:50 (say to 1:100 or 1:200). Three syringes - 1ml, 5ml and 10ml - will cover your needs and will insure accurate and reproducable results time after time. One should be able to buy syringes cheaply from a pharmacy. Remember to flush the syringes after use.

 

I't highly advisable to go little by little when adding the Photoflo dilution and trying it out in the pen until it's right. As said, different peoples mileage will vary with respect to when enough is enough, depending on how wet one wants the pen. It's absolutely possible to overdo it so that bottle of ink is ruined.

 

As said, Photoflo works better for me than dish washing soap, and so far (after 1½ month) no sediments have set in the botlles or pens holding the flow improved ink. But time will show. That said, I actually used dishwashing soap with the old and now discontinued Montblanc Blueblack (before the MB Midnight Blue in its iron gall incarnation). It worked OK with that ink with no sediment setting, but the ink tended to loose color after 9-12 months (which didn't matter because I used up a bottle in that time span). But with Photoflo one doesn't get any undesired additives of unknown nature, and the fixed concentration makes it possible to get accurate and reproducable results.

 

A bottle of Photflo 200 contains 16 fl. ounces = 473ml. With the dilution mentioned above, such a bottle of Photoflo will be enough for more than 1 million 50ml bottles of ink.

 

DISCLAIMER: If adding Photoflo to your inks, do so solely at your own risk. I accept no responsability if any undesired effect should present itself, be that to the ink or the pen.