Swastika Pen

November 9, 2011

I would not want to touch the thing, much less own it. Maybe the Holocaust Museum in Washington or Houston would like to have it. How did it get into your possession?

November 9, 2011

This pen is part of a vast myriad of propaganda-type items produced in those years, huge numbers of items of this type still exist and can be purchased in many cases for very little money, as little as a few dollars for a common propaganda badge. Part of the reason for this is that these things had broad appeal to the American soldiers fighting in Europe during WWII; a great many soldiers saw value in these things (either historical value, or simply souvenir value) and returning servicemen brought lots of these type of items home with them. I have seen many things like this still in the possesion of these veterans, or kept as heirlooms by their families. This pen is a rare item and of course has significant value as a collectible, however it lacks more profound historical significance or a direct historical connection that would make it appealing to a museum, and in fact a great many people would be displeased to know how many 20th century historical items donated to museums are immediately sold out the back door into private collections. As a side note, to correct one of the erroneous statements made earlier in this thread, such an item could indeed be sold in Germany; some of the biggest sellers of Third Reich material (dealers and auction houses) are based in Germany and sell these items to collectors and institutions worldwide. Public display of the swastika in a political context is unconstitutional there, but display in a historical or documentary context is permitted, as is the buying and selling of Nazi-era historical items as long as both parties agree that the material will not be used in a way that violates the constitutional law.

November 9, 2011

... As a side note, to correct one of the erroneous statements made earlier in this thread, such an item could indeed be sold in Germany; some of the biggest sellers of Third Reich material (dealers and auction houses) are based in Germany and sell these items to collectors and institutions worldwide. Public display of the swastika in a political context is unconstitutional there, but display in a historical or documentary context is permitted, as is the buying and selling of Nazi-era historical items as long as both parties agree that the material will not be used in a way that violates the constitutional law.

It helps to know the criminal code covering this subject. I wasn't very specific, but those dealers learnt to walk on a thin rope when trading with these "memorabilia", the international markets are certainly easier for them. The law covers the distribution of unconstitutional items and makes some exeptions for educational, historic and scientific purposes. So the dealers paint them as something that superficially pleases the law, but sometimes the swastikas are removed from the original objects to avoid domestic trouble.

Here are the specific legal articles from the criminal code in German, for those who can understand them:

http://www.gesetze-i...ml#Seitenanfang

Edited November 9, 2011 by saintsimon

November 9, 2011

Context really does make a difference here.

I think a lot of collectors who would recoil from the prospect of seeking out and purchasing Nazi memorabilia might have a very different attitude towards, say, a Nazi dagger passed down from an uncle who took it as a trophy when fighting on the Allied side.

December 22, 2011

Context is largely subjective, even this thread is...

Remember that there are not only Germans, even among allied forces many war criminals may be individuated.

For instance nobody remember the butcher "bomber" Harris - the commander of allied air force who had the responsibility of the DRESDA massacre in 1945 ?

...remember ...

December 22, 2011

I would not want to touch the thing, much less own it. Maybe the Holocaust Museum in Washington or Houston would like to have it. How did it get into your possession?

+1

December 22, 2011

I want this pen

December 22, 2011

Context is largely subjective, even this thread is...
Remember that there are not only Germans, even among allied forces many war criminals may be individuated.
For instance nobody remember the butcher "bomber" Harris - the commander of allied air force who had the responsibility of the DRESDA massacre in 1945 ?
...remember ...

I agree with your point, up to a point. Yes, there were terrible deeds done on both sides. Certainly, not every person in any country was a war criminal. "German" is not synonymous with "evil". ("Nazi", to my mind, is.) The firebombing of Dresden was a horrible event, as sickening as any of the other horrors of that war. The death of even a single German who was not directly a part of the evil some Germans loosed is a tragedy.

But, as far as I know, no one ever made a pen commemorating the firebombing of Dresden or "Bomber" Harris. If they had, I would find it distasteful. As for the actual pen used to sign the orders for that bombing, assuming it could be identified... Every country has committed actions that inspire horror, and anyone who is outraged by the sight of this pen should be willing to admit as much.

At least for the most part, I don't think anyone was trying to single out Germany. The pen which we're discussing in this thread happens to be one linked to the Axis, and it is not even German, it is Italian. The point is that the symbol of one particular political party, one movement, in those countries is linked to many terrible things. Since that symbol is on this pen, that's what we're discussing. If someone unearthed a pen with some historical connection to the bombing of Dresden and the massacre of women and children there, I at least would find that equally unsettling. (And if any pen maker actually did consider that event worth commemorating, I would very much want to vomit.)

So, as far as your point that not all Germans are evil, certainly. There's no doubt at all you're right.

As far as your point that Germans are no more likely to be evil than anyone else, that is just as certain and obvious.

As far as the point others have made that there are legitimate reasons to keep such a pen, yes. I agree.

But your point that reactions to the symbolism of this pen are subjective is one I have to dispute. The specific ideology that this pen was manufactured to promote is one that is objectively repugnant to anyone who understands its message.