Noodler's Voiding Pen Warranty?

[Antoinem]

Hello

 

I was told today by the owner of a pen store in Calgary the the reason he does not carry the Noodler's line is because he was told by several fountain pen manufacturers that the use of Noodler's ink would void their warranty. When I asked why, he told me that some ingredients in Noodler's ink with long term use are damaging some of the components of the feeding system.

 

Does any one ever heard of such thing?

 

Antoine

[JefferyS]

This is a can of worms. Valid question, though.

[corniche]

Greetings Antoine,

 

Welcome to FPN. Your avatar is the same as Fuddlestack's- who is a pal of mine here at FPN- that is who I thought you were at first.

 

To answer your question; I would be surprised if this were the case; however, to CYA, I would contact the pen manufacturer(s) myself and ask them about it. This store clerk may be blowing smoke because his boss doesn't want to carry the Noodlers line, (it is very large and I can understand why some merchants would be shy of stocking 100+ colors of ink). Just a guess on my part.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

Edited June 10, 2011 by S. P. Colfer

[JefferyS]

Google "Noodler's void warranty"

[bluejay]

Yah I was told this today. Kinda shocked. But its true a lot of people's pens get damaged using it. Although I don't plan on using noodler's ink without the noodler's cheap pens lol.

[KCat]

Yah I was told this today. Kinda shocked. But its true a lot of people's pens get damaged using it. Although I don't plan on using noodler's ink without the noodler's cheap pens lol.

 

"A lot of people's"

 

The amount of discussion greatly distorts perception.

 

I would like to close this but the question is valid. However, the question can't be answered here and as was suggested, only the manufactures can truly answer that. Anything else here is rumor and supposition. If anyone who actually sells the ink and has talked directly to manufacturers has valid and supportable data to contribute, please do.

 

Any discussion further on the topic of Noodler's safety is prohibited. I refer you yet again TODAY to the pinned thread above.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/188197-baystate-blue-and-noodlers-safety-questions/

[KCat]

I will add that there is one vintage pen restorer (at least one) that does say his warranty is voided if you use Noodler's or PR inks. This is the only one I am aware of. He is not a manufacturer. This too has been discussed at length on this forum.

Edited June 10, 2011 by KCat

[Antoinem]

Well, what can I say..... I opened a can of worms it seems. Please close the topic, I shall no longer discuss it. By the way, I did search on the net for some info and found some. However I felt that users who are more experienced than me might have a better understanding of the situation. If I have offended anyone with my question, I am truly sorry.

Topic Closed.

[KCat]

Well, what can I say..... I opened a can of worms it seems. Please close the topic, I shall no longer discuss it. By the way, I did search on the net for some info and found some. However I felt that users who are more experienced than me might have a better understanding of the situation. If I have offended anyone with my question, I am truly sorry.

Topic Closed.

 

You haven't offended. As Jeffrey said, and I concurred, this is a valid question. That's why I didn't close it. It's the first I've heard of a manufacturer's warranty being voided so it needed to be said. I was aware of Rick Propas's warranty issue as mentioned above.

 

I'm just warning those who started into other territory about how damaging the ink is which has been discussed to death and the real numbers are hotly debated. Please do look at the thread I posted if you haven't already. I will soon (as in, the next day or two) have a number of links posted so that people will not have to do the searches for themselves.

 

I will leave this open because we have several business owners who frequent our forum and if they have any information on this topic it would definitely be appreciated.

 

My only request remains that the topic remains about your initial question and valid responses to that.

 

Thank you for your understanding and I'm sorry if I seemed to be biting your head off. I wasn't intending to do so. It's just that I just warned other members of this issue not but a few hours ago and it seems it wasn't noticed or was ignored then under different circumstances. It was not your initial post that got me on a tear.

 

KCat

[MrsGouletPens]

I've seen many manufacturers pen warranties that make references to it being voided if using anything other than that manufacturers ink. Lamy, Waterman, others... have a clause specifically about that. Pilot recommends to only use their ink but doesn't explicitly void the warranty if you do.

 

I think they just don't want the liability of you using ink that really isn't designed for fountain pens (i.e. calligraphy inks, some iron gall inks, homemade inks, etc) that really could clog up and damage a pen, and it's easy for them to generalize and recommend to only use their own brand rather than singling out specific 'okay' brands to use. I imagine they have to do thorough testing on their pens, and it's probably easier to only test with their own brand.

 

There are soooooo many misconceptions about the 'safety' of Noodler's inks, and I keep seeing the rumors perpetuated by uninformed B&M salespersons. It's unfortunate, and I don't agree with it, personally.

[SamCapote]

I would also surmise that anything objective/legitimate from a manufacturer is what Rachel Goulet just said. You can add to that Montblanc's similar policy of using only MB ink in their own pens.

 

It seems to me that an established manufacturer would expose their company to very significant tort lawsuit damages if they issued a "warranty-voiding" statement that singled out a particular brand of ink. It would be incumbent upon them to have done exhaustive testing by an independent, objective, reputable research company proving that an entire ink lineup always damages their pen or pen components. If a single bottle of Noodler's Ink did not cause the alleged damage, the claim against the entire brand would be invalid. The research would need to stand up to aggressive cross examination, and the scrutiny of a jury. I don't see any pen manufacturer being willing to take on that kind of legal risk out in the real business world, nor do I believe it has been so stated by any pen manufacturer.

[Scrawler]

Pen manufacturers sell you one pen, but want you as a continuing customer buying supplies from them continuously. It is natural that they would suggest that you use their ink. In the case of Mont Blanc and their warranty which is void if you do not use their ink, it is a slightly strong arm way to keep you on as a customer. I actually think it is a shame, because I rather like MB pens. I will not buy a new one, because there are some Noodlers inks I would rather use, than MB inks. Most ink manufacturers, Noodlers included, have broad ranges of inks, with different components and characteristics, and it would be next to impossible to ascribe the same behaviour to all of the inks. When these tales about Noodlers damaging pens started up I wondered if it was because they were not a pen maker who was trying to keep users hooked on their brand. One of the big dangers of the Internet is that if one person expresses an opinion in a piece of writing, it can easily become the reference that others use and quote, until one negative statement becomes "common knowledge". This is because it is easy to read one thing and not think critically and analytically about it.

 

I agree with Sam, I cannot see a pen manufacturer singling out one particular brand. I can see them excluding all brands but their own.

[stuartk]

Greetings Antoine,

 

Welcome to FPN. Your avatar is the same as Fuddlestack's- who is a pal of mine here at FPN- that is who I thought you were at first.

 

 

It's Beastie.

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/55/Bsd_daemon.jpg

 

I used FreeBSD for a number of years back in the '90s, so it's a familiar symbol to me.

Edited June 10, 2011 by stuartk

[stuartk]

I would also surmise that anything objective/legitimate from a manufacturer is what Rachel Goulet just said. You can add to that Montblanc's similar policy of using only MB ink in their own pens.

 

 

I've seen that too, but I always put it down to their wanting to sell more ink.

 

What's really frustrating about this topic is that I haven't seen anything but anecdotal evidence supporting one side or another, and a lot of it seemed quite suspect.

 

I've performed the tests with aluminum foil that Nathan Tardif suggests, and I found some ink that did indeed corrode the foil. However, that really doesn't mean much since I don't have any pens with aluminum working parts.

[KCat]

I've seen many manufacturers pen warranties that make references to it being voided if using anything other than that manufacturers ink. Lamy, Waterman, others... have a clause specifically about that. Pilot recommends to only use their ink but doesn't explicitly void the warranty if you do.

 

This I knew and there has been much discussion about the feasibility of the brands actually proving the use of inks other than their own. Probably part of why Pilot doesn't explicitly void the warranty. How would their end of it hold up? Eventually you'd only anger the customer base if every warranty was voided on the off chance that a problem was caused by some mysterious non-Pilot ink. I'll note that in my experience, Pilot customer service has been top of the line.

 

Thank you very much for your input.

 

KCat

[PhxPiper]

My questions would be-

 

How long do you let the ink stay in the FP?

Are you exclusively using one ink with that FP?

Do you wash/clean/purge ink once you have run out- or do you only do this when you are ready to ink up again?

 

There are a lot of factors in a broad statement like this- legally it IS a nightmare to make broad statements without support- while it is easier to just state: please use our brand of ink since we know what we have for our product.

 

Can a manufacturer really know if it was their ink or another that caused an issue- or was it most likely user mishandling of a product?

[JefferyS]

If Folgers made a coffeemaker, it would not surprise me to see the caveat "For best results, use only Folgers Coffee". And I have seen cautions that using anything other than the manufacturer's ________ will void the warranty.

 

Noodlers seems particularly vulnerable because it is such a small operation, the bottles of ink are so generous in quantity compared to others (remember when solid gold could be gotten for $32 an ounce?), and there are so darned many colors that are so darned popular. In the past few years, this has to be digging into ink sales from other companies.

 

Can anyone imagine limiting oneself to just Sheaffer or Waterman inks? I was doing so (Waterman and Levenger and MontBlanc only) until joining this forum. Now I am totally spoiled. Now I am "confined to" the following:

 

Aurora Black

 

Aurora Blue

 

Caran D'Ache Grand Canyon

 

Diamine Amazing Amethyst

 

Diamine Asa Blue

 

Diamine Chocolate Brown

 

Diamine Evergreen

 

Diamine Green Black

 

Diamine Oxblood

 

Diamine Pumpkin

 

Diamine Syrah

 

Everflo Blue Black

 

Everflo Blue Reformulated

 

Iroshizuku Iroshizuku Asa-Gao

 

Iroshizuku Shin-Ryoku

 

Iroshizuku Tsukushi

 

Iroshizuku Yama-Budo

 

Iroshizuku Yama-Guri

 

Levenger Cobalt Blue

 

Levenger Mocha

 

Levenger Raven Black

 

Levenger Ruby

 

MontBlanc Black

 

MontBlanc Toffee Brown

 

Noodler's #41 Brown

 

Noodler's Antietam

 

Noodler's Baystate Blue

 

Noodler's Baystate Concord Grape

 

Noodler's Beaver

 

Noodler's Black

 

Noodler's Black Swan in Australian Roses

 

Noodler's Blue Black

 

Noodler's Burgundy

 

Noodler's Cayenne

 

Noodler's Eel Blue

 

Noodler's Kiowa Pecan

 

Noodler's Nakahama (Whaleman's Sepia)

 

Noodler's Polar Blue

 

Noodler's Polar Brown

 

Noodler's Standard Brown

 

Noodler's Tiananmen

 

Noodler's Walnut

 

Noodler's Widow Maker

 

Pelikan Yellow

 

Pelikan Edelstein Onyx

 

Pelikan Edelstein Sapphire

 

Private Reserve Burgundy Mist

 

Private Reserve Chocolate

 

Sheaffer Brown

 

Waterman Havana

 

 

[mstone]

I've seen many manufacturers pen warranties that make references to it being voided if using anything other than that manufacturers ink. Lamy, Waterman, others... have a clause specifically about that.

 

That is simply not true. http://www.lamyusa.c...arrantyinfo.php :

 

All Lamy pens sold in the US carry the following warranty:

Lamy pen warranties its writing instruments for the life of the product**. If repair is required other than from abuse or misuse, then for a small handling and return postage charge of $7.50 per pen. Lamy products will repair, refurbish, and return any Lamy instrument. If other parts have been abused, there will be a special charge. Otherwise, there are no labor or parts charges.

 

**The Lamy warranty does not cover damage caused by misuse, abuse, unauthorized service and the use of other manufacturers refills or inks.

 

So they (quite reasonably) won't cover damage caused by someone else's ink. They will not (and legally cannot) refuse to cover problems with materials or workmanship just because you used someone else's ink.

 

 

Ditto waterman (emphasis added) http://www.waterman....sh_na_final.pdf :

 

This warranty is granted by Waterman and applies in the US and Canada.

Your WATERMAN® writing instrument is guaranteed for three years from the date of

original purchase against defects in materials or workmanship. If found to be defective

within the warranty period, your WATERMAN® product will be repaired or replaced

free of charge. This warranty may be extended by registering your WATERMAN®

writing instrument at www.waterman.com.

 

This warranty does not cover routine maintenance, or damage resulting from the failure

to maintain the product in accordance with instructions provided by WATERMAN.

This warranty also does not cover ordinary wear and tear arising from use of the product,

or damage that may arise from accidental or intentional misuse or abuse, alteration or

customization, or repair by unauthorized persons. This warranty also does not cover

damage that is caused by the use of inks or refills other than those made by

WATERMAN.

 

 

It is not uncommon for people at stores trying to sell manufacturer's ink to claim that using other ink will allow the manufacture to refuse to ever correct any issues with the pen. In some cases that's probably a misundertanding. With some manufacturers that's heard often enough that it makes one wonder if it's part of the hard-sell training program. If you contact the legal department (like the people that actually wrote the warranty) they won't say that because it would be illegal and they know it.

[JefferyS]

I see your points. Damage caused by other inks implies that other inks can cause damage. That is certainly the case. Inks that are not designed for fountain pens (like India ink) can certain clog up a fountain pen. I believe that there are probably some acrylic inks designed to be used with Speedball pens that harden into an insoluble plastic.

[opus7600]

@mstone: Ah, that's a fine distinction. I think that the actual legal interpretation aside, the fear is:

1) you use another manufacturer's ink in the pen

2) someday you need service

3) the manufacturer will perform the necessary forensics to determine you have used the wrong ink

4) they then claim that any damage is a result of that improper ink

 

Justified? Probably not. I have certainly had exemplary service from Waterman, despite my use of non-Waterman inks. But I suspect it's the *fear* that keeps this topic coming up rather than the reality.