Parker 51 Vs. Hero 616 Jumbo

[drrusso]

Tyler!

 

That's a good & informative review.

Is the 616 otherwise known as Hero DOCTOR?

 

Regards,

drrusso.

[777]

Tyler!

 

That's a good & informative review.

Is the 616 otherwise known as Hero DOCTOR?

 

Regards,

drrusso.

 

Hmmm... Well I don't know. I've never heard it called that but it very well might be.

 

You're most welcome for the review!

 

Regards,

777

[Sailor Kenshin]

Tyler!

 

That's a good & informative review.

Is the 616 otherwise known as Hero DOCTOR?

 

Regards,

drrusso.

 

 

It's not.

 

The DOCTOR, though made by Hero, is a very slender, tortoise-shell color flat-top pen, with a remarkably smooth nib.

 

I reviewed it here, somewhere....

[lovemy51]

guys, i've seen vendors call the 616 doctor. don't know exactly what the DOCTOR pen really is. some say is a division of Hero... it's all confusing to me.

 

here are a few examples:

 

616: http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-6-HERO-616-Doctor-Jumbo-Fountain-Pen-Vintage-Style-/180561029008?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0a46a790

 

tortoise: http://cgi.ebay.com/Doctor-Hero-Tortoise-Lacquer-Chrome-Fountain-Pen-/350460416785?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5199119311

 

aluminum: http://cgi.ebay.com/HERO-Doctor-Aluminum-Fountain-Pen-Set-/230598773358?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PensPencils_WritingEquipment_SM&hash=item35b0c20a6e

 

green lacquer: http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Hero-Doctor-Green-Marble-Lacquer-Fountain-Pen-Set-/230413604925?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35a5b8983d

 

 

... the list goes on...

[Sailor Kenshin]

Speerbob sells the Doctor pen. This is my review of it;

 

On my blog.

 

It's made by Hero but has nothing to do with the cigar-shaped, 51-inspired 616.

 

Hope this helps. Both are nice pens!

 

PS: Mine is the second one on your list; the tortoise finish.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Sailor Kenshin

[lovemy51]

ok, since you didn't wanna look at the links, here is the pic... see for yourself what i'm trying to convey... and maybe drrusso was too.

 

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n419/peterpaul_rguez/B2zGnpwmkKGrHqIOKiEMmUjknMBMj60JrKGQ_12.jpg

 

does it read DOCTOR? again, i don't know if it's a sub-division of Hero... ot what not... maybe someone else can explain that', but they are advertising it as the "doctor" pen (or the hero/doctor company).

[JonSzanto]

ok, since you didn't wanna look at the links, here is the pic... see for yourself what i'm trying to convey... and maybe drrusso was too.

 

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n419/peterpaul_rguez/B2zGnpwmkKGrHqIOKiEMmUjknMBMj60JrKGQ_12.jpg

 

does it read DOCTOR? again, i don't know if it's a sub-division of Hero... ot what not... maybe someone else can explain that', but they are advertising it as the "doctor" pen (or the hero/doctor company).

I believe the "Doctor" is like a model name. Here's my story:

 

I got a 616 as a free gift when I bought two NOS Sheaffers from Peyton Street Pens. Didn't know much about it, but I put some ink in it to try it out, and - frankly - I was pretty surprised. I'm moderately new to all this, and had bought a few of the Platinum Preppys to use as test pens for ink samples. This one definitely wrote better than those.

 

I did a little reading around, and saw they had different models, and one that came up with was a Jumbo 616. It was also referred to as a "Doctor". Indications were that it was just a tad bigger in body girth, nothing major. I thought, again, for testing inks it might be interesting to have a couple. Noting that the biggest knock was quality control, I found a reputable eBay seller who sold in 3- and 6-pen lots, and picked up 6. They came very promptly, and in identical packaging to what you see above. The Doctor/Jumbo and the 616 are *very* similar, with the Jumbo being just a bit heftier, a better cap with a better cap 'button' (whatever is called the end of the cap holding the clip) and the Jumbo has a larger sac, and holds a bit more ink. (The pic below is from the isellpens.com site, not my pens, but this is what I observe as well):

 

http://www.isellpens.com/Images/Hero/M616%20COMPARISON%201.JPG

 

The difference between them, from the sellers I see, are simply pennies. And as hard to believe as it might be, there are apparently counterfeit 616s, which is why I ordered the Doctor/Jumbo.

 

Well, they are what they are: very inexpensive pens that do remarkably well. Aesthetically, they'll never be confused with a Parker 51 or any pen that has any heft to it, or great amount of artistry. But for a daily pen that I wouldn't give a thought if I lost, it is ok to have some around. I'm going to take a couple of them, bundle them up with some ink, and put them out in the Pass It On thread, maybe get some others hooked on little nibs that make ink appear on the page right in front of your eyes...

Edited May 22, 2011 by jonszanto

[Sailor Kenshin]

The cigar-shaped pens packaged and labeled as DOCTOR may or may not be genuine Heros.

 

It's odd to think that such inexpensive pens are the target of knock-off artists, but evidently they are.

 

Or they might be genuine and Hero might have a DOCTOR pen that other reputable Hero dealer's don't carry.

 

Hero also makes more than one cigar-shaped pen, such as the 329.

[JonSzanto]

The cigar-shaped pens packaged and labeled as DOCTOR may or may not be genuine Heros.

Look, I don't know what you want - the packaging was all intact, didn't look cheap or second-hand, came from a reputable dealer, and most importantly, all the elements of the pen, in terms of construction, quality, and materials seemed of the same type as my Hero 616.

 

These are either Hero pens, or something so close and identical that it simply doesn't matter. Splitting hairs over a $2-3 pen gets a bit silly after a while.

[Osmaroid]

The cigar-shaped pens packaged and labeled as DOCTOR may or may not be genuine Heros.

Look, I don't know what you want - the packaging was all intact, didn't look cheap or second-hand, came from a reputable dealer, and most importantly, all the elements of the pen, in terms of construction, quality, and materials seemed of the same type as my Hero 616.

 

These are either Hero pens, or something so close and identical that it simply doesn't matter. Splitting hairs over a $2-3 pen gets a bit silly after a while.

 

I agree that splitting hairs over a $2-3 pen seems silly, but in my experience with 616 branded pens, not Doctor, the counterfeits invariably perform much worse. The problem is that counterfeits can give an unjustified bad reputation, even to a $3 pen that, if the real product were tried, would give it a good reputation. As for "the packaging was all intact, didn't look cheap or second-hand", that is the whole point of a counterfeit - the packaging etc. look as clpose to the original as the counterfeiter can make them.

 

The statement that "These are either Hero pens, or something so close and identical that it simply doesn't matter." misses the point, particularly in a product that has a reputation for variable performance that may or may not be due to many counterfeits out there. I have seen many people, particularly with electronics goods, buy a "real bargain", only to state that the item was not as good as its reputation. Examination of the goods then shows, guess what, it isn't the real item. Try buying "bargain" name-brand, packaged headphones on eBay and then compare them and their packaging carefully with the actual item from an honest to goodness dealer, side by side and with a magnifying glass.............then, if you have the capability to measure performance (obviously not likely, but if you do) the real problem of buying such goods becomes obvious.

 

Sorry about the long missive, but this really is a problem that should be more widely known and carefully checked for. We are fortunate that in the fountain pen area we seem to have relatively few counterfeits, the current subject, the Hero 616, and the multiple Parker Sonnet counterfeits being 2 well known ones. The ridiculously cheap "Mont Blanc" pens do not count, as all I have seen are crude look-alikes with totally different filling mechanisms and totally different packaging to the real thing.

 

By the way, I am not a lawyer in the IP area, merely an engineer and fountain pen enthusiast who has been bitten by this problem in both areas (yes, I do have a counterfeit Sonnet as well!)

[JonSzanto]

@Osmaroid: Point(s) taken in virtually all areas, and I realize that, in a certain way, *my* post may have seemed dismissive.

 

I'm just trying to differentiate between the philosophical problem of a 'counterfeit mentality' and the actuality, in this case, of an item that is only worth a couple of bucks. No, I don't throw away money foolishly, but when I ordered a handful of inexpensive pens, I was already prepared for the possibility that they might not be the greatest thing in the world. If they ALL were bona fide Hero brand pens, there might have still been clunkers.

 

Being that:

 

• It seems nearly impossible to find proper documentation on the brand lines
• Similarly impossible to examine the products and the packaging in advance for knock-offs
• The scarcity of a clear track record of known purveyors of bogus items...

... knowing all that, I considered a purchase a very minor calculated risk. Believe me, I'd *never* make a purchase like this of any kind of mid- to higher-end quality product. I believe in due diligence when I'm researching a prospective purchase.

 

So, where to go from here? Is anyone going to put up a comprehensive site (or page), documenting the repeated counterfeiting of fountain pens? What should I think about my purchases, which appear to be valid products, and work (easily) as well as anyone would expect? If I can't trust people on FPN who give feedback as to the validity of various Asian-market pen sellers, what should I do?

 

Sorry for my missive, as well! At some point, it boils down to the distinction between academic examples and pragmatic offers. Mine worked out just as expected, but I have precisely NO way to project that experience to anyone else, other than to say "It worked for me".

[antony6555]

I am currently in China and have bought several 616s (both jumbo and regular) in department stores. I can't guarantee they are real I suppose, but it seems more likely because of where they were purchased. QC of course is awful, it is bad even with the 100 but with the 616 it is truely awful. However, since I am buying in person, I can pick and choose pens without defects.

 

The plastic is super light on these pens and seems quite flimsy. However, they are larger than the 78g and fit my hands well (unlike the 78g). If you get one without defects, they work fine. However, the nib is not smooth by any means, it's quite rough and has been on the several I have used. The 78g is a better choice for a cheap pen imo, due to the very nice nib and, great qc, and better construction, despite the fact that it will be too small for many hands.

 

By the way op, what do you mean by nib adjustments? Adjusting the feed?

Edited May 23, 2011 by antony6555

[Osmaroid]

@jonszanto - your points are also taken. I agree that it is impossible to check beforehand in most cases, and that an index of suppliers of counterfeit goods would be a good idea, assuming the moderators would have no problem with this. I would certainly contribute if bitten again, but do not believe I can trace any of the 616's to source. I bought several multi-packs over time, thinking of them as a cheap source of sacs. I tried writing with a couple and was not impressed. Well over a year after the last purchase, I then read a posting on 616 counterfeits and thought "I wonder", checked my purchases (still in packs) and found small differences in the packaging printing. The pens in one pack printing seemed better made, with more careful engravings on the cap and better alignment of parts etc.than those from the other printing. Lo and behold, a dip test of the "better made" version showed acceptable performance, and from the other pack totally unacceptable performance.

 

I realized I probably had a counterfeit with the Parker Sonnet seconds after winning it on eBay from a seller in Thailand at a ridiculously low price. He had many on sale, all the same picture, and my exposure to counterfeits in a different area in my "daytime job" made me suspicious. It was early in my pen collecting days, so I Googled "counterfeit Parker Sonnet" and got a number of hits, including several detailed postings and articles showing that this was indeed a frequently counterfeited pen. My solution there has been to almost never bid on eBay pens from Thailand. Again, the actual source is lost in the mists of time.

 

Until a listing of counterfeit suppliers can be generated, sensible precautions can be taken. I recommend that buyers spend a dollar or two more and buy their 616 pens from reputable US suppliers - they are still a bargain. Be suspicious of eBay listings that look too good to be true, especially from places such as Thailand when multiple, seemingly identical, vintage pens are offered. And if you think you have been bitten by a counterfeit of another pen, let the FPN community know about it.

[Sailor Kenshin]

The cigar-shaped pens packaged and labeled as DOCTOR may or may not be genuine Heros.

Look, I don't know what you want - the packaging was all intact, didn't look cheap or second-hand, came from a reputable dealer, and most importantly, all the elements of the pen, in terms of construction, quality, and materials seemed of the same type as my Hero 616.

 

These are either Hero pens, or something so close and identical that it simply doesn't matter. Splitting hairs over a $2-3 pen gets a bit silly after a while.

 

 

I beg your pardon?

 

It's hardly a matter of "what I want."

 

You asked for information. I passed along what has been told to me by people wiser and more experienced in the production and sale of Hero pens than myself.

 

Yes, the packaging can look identical in the case of some knock-offs.

 

I'm bowing out of this thread now. Looks like my attempt to assist is only being met with needless hostility.

[JonSzanto]

I beg your pardon?

 

It's hardly a matter of "what I want."

 

You asked for information. I passed along what has been told to me by people wiser and more experienced in the production and sale of Hero pens than myself.

 

Yes, the packaging can look identical in the case of some knock-offs.

 

I'm bowing out of this thread now. Looks like my attempt to assist is only being met with needless hostility.

 

@Sailor: just wanted to be on record that I meant no hostility. The printed word doesn't always well-convey our intentions. I was merely giving background on *my* experiences with these pens, and my opinions on the issues, to add to the mix of information. And, somehow, I think you had me confused with the OP, as I, myself, wasn't asking for any information about the pens.

 

Peace.

[drrusso]

777, lovemy51, Sailor Kenshin, jonszanto, Osmaroid, antony6555, -

 

Thanks to all. That was a great information on these great pens. Very sad that Hero Pen Co., has started manufacturing pens of not so good quality!

 

Regards,

drrusso.

[raffaele from turin - italy]

Over/Under for you getting banned is a month.

 

 

 

????

[Black Rose]

guys, i've seen vendors call the 616 doctor. don't know exactly what the DOCTOR pen really is. some say is a division of Hero... it's all confusing to me.

 

here are a few examples:

 

616: http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-6-HERO-616-Doctor-Jumbo-Fountain-Pen-Vintage-Style-/180561029008?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0a46a790

Those the ones I bought, and they are real Hero 616 Jumbo pens.

 

Very nice writers too.

 

And yes, Doctor is a brand that the Hero pen company produces.

[JonSzanto]

Those the ones I bought, and they are real Hero 616 Jumbo pens.

I recently bought the exact same 6 pen lot, and 5 out of the 6 were perfectly fine right out of the packaging, and the other that was a bit rough became fine in about 20 seconds on a piece of microfine sandpaper. They are all now employed as ink sample testers, and are *all* going to become eyedropper pens, making it much easier to clean them, and hold more ink as well.

 

A perfectly good bargain.

[lovemy51]

Those the ones I bought, and they are real Hero 616 Jumbo pens.

I recently bought the exact same 6 pen lot, and 5 out of the 6 were perfectly fine right out of the packaging, and the other that was a bit rough became fine in about 20 seconds on a piece of microfine sandpaper. They are all now employed as ink sample testers, and are *all* going to become eyedropper pens, making it much easier to clean them, and hold more ink as well.

 

A perfectly good bargain.

hmmmm, just make sure you plug that hole at the bottom of the barrel