Making Fp Ink From Cold-Water Soluble Dye

[SamCapote]

That's the guy who has been trying to sell it as a part of his whole "Right-Products.com" business. You can decide if this looks like the type of business you want to trust. I made my decision long ago after seeing it was owned and run by Daniel J. Zeiler of Lockport, IL. (Look at the PDF letter of reference from Ivanhoe Energy)

 

Powder "stable for at least 2 years."

 

This is a pretty complete information sheet for it, including mixing, hazards, and 2 week shelf life once mixed.

 

Good Luck !!!

[notgiven]

Thanks for the info. That guy is definitely fishy, but more in a 'quick rich schemes' way than a selling fake products way. The Dowicil 75 on eBay is there since Nov 2010, so it is at least half year old.

 

"Stable for at least 2 years" is understandable, since it is approved for food additive, tolerable Daily Intake value of 0.005 mg/kg body weight. Anything relate to food has a tight restriction. "2 week shelf life once mixed." This, I don't understand. Are we talking about food here?

[thorn]

"2 week shelf life once mixed." This, I don't understand. Are we talking about food here?

 

 

I think if you make up a stock solution (10-20%) it will only be good for 2 weeks. Also, it said that it should be good for 2 years in the final formulation.

 

How long are modern inks suppose to last?

[pharmacist]

A good base to dissolve dye stuff and make it flow well in FP's is the following formula:

 

-glycerol 5 ml

-isopropanol 1 ml

-salicylic acid 200 mg (dissolve it in hot water and let cool before adding the isopropanol)

-distilled water up to 100 ml

 

Now each type of dye may or may not influence the surface tension of the ink, so one can add a drop of photographic surfactant (or more if neccessary) to make the ink flow better. Alkaline dyes can render the ink more sensitive for spoiling, as the salicylic acid will only act optimal in lower pH ranges. In this case you want to substitute the salicylic acid by preservatives like phenoxy-ethanol.

 

The above formula is preserved and contain the necessary humectants to prevent gumming up your nib.

[SamCapote]

A good base to dissolve dye stuff and make it flow well in FP's is the following formula:

 

-glycerol 5 ml

-isopropanol 1 ml

-salicylic acid 200 mg (dissolve it in hot water and let cool before adding the isopropanol)

-distilled water up to 100 ml

 

Now each type of dye may or may not influence the surface tension of the ink, so one can add a drop of photographic surfactant (or more if neccessary) to make the ink flow better. Alkaline dyes can render the ink more sensitive for spoiling, as the salicylic acid will only act optimal in lower pH ranges. In this case you want to substitute the salicylic acid by preservatives like phenoxy-ethanol.

 

The above formula is preserved and contain the necessary humectants to prevent gumming up your nib.

 

Pharmacist doesn't post that often, but it's always gold !!!!!!!!

[malpei]

A good base to dissolve dye stuff and make it flow well in FP's is the following formula:

 

-glycerol 5 ml

-isopropanol 1 ml

-salicylic acid 200 mg (dissolve it in hot water and let cool before adding the isopropanol)

-distilled water up to 100 ml

 

Now each type of dye may or may not influence the surface tension of the ink, so one can add a drop of photographic surfactant (or more if neccessary) to make the ink flow better. Alkaline dyes can render the ink more sensitive for spoiling, as the salicylic acid will only act optimal in lower pH ranges. In this case you want to substitute the salicylic acid by preservatives like phenoxy-ethanol.

 

The above formula is preserved and contain the necessary humectants to prevent gumming up your nib.

 

Nice! You are the best

[thorn]

Some dyes contain salt (Sodium Sulfate & NaCl), around 1-5%, some as high as 10%. I wonder if that would cause problems with Fps? If one has a 1% dye solution then the salt could be around 0.1% (if I did my math correctly 10% of 1% ). I would guess that pH would be a factor too.

[pharmacist]

Some dyes contain salt (Sodium Sulfate & NaCl), around 1-5%, some as high as 10%. I wonder if that would cause problems with Fps? If one has a 1% dye solution then the salt could be around 0.1% (if I did my math correctly 10% of 1% ). I would guess that pH would be a factor too.

 

Sodium sulfate and NaCl (sodium chloride, Na stands for Natrium=sodium) are both neutral salts and does not effect pH at all. The reason is that these two salts are derived from strong acids (HCl: Hydrochoric acid and H2SO4: sulfuric acid) and the corresponding salts are extremely weak alkaline salts. In the concentrations to make a nice colour for fountain pens, the amount of salts is actually low enough not to cause problems.

 

Therefore I suggest to add glycerol to the ink to prevent gumming up the nib (5 %).

 

So in short: the amount of salts in the dye stuff should not cause any problem in your ink.

[thorn]

Some dyes contain salt (Sodium Sulfate & NaCl), around 1-5%, some as high as 10%. I wonder if that would cause problems with Fps? If one has a 1% dye solution then the salt could be around 0.1% (if I did my math correctly 10% of 1% ). I would guess that pH would be a factor too.

 

Sodium sulfate and NaCl (sodium chloride, Na stands for Natrium=sodium) are both neutral salts and does not effect pH at all. The reason is that these two salts are derived from strong acids (HCl: Hydrochoric acid and H2SO4: sulfuric acid) and the corresponding salts are extremely weak alkaline salts. In the concentrations to make a nice colour for fountain pens, the amount of salts is actually low enough not to cause problems.

 

Therefore I suggest to add glycerol to the ink to prevent gumming up the nib (5 %).

 

So in short: the amount of salts in the dye stuff should not cause any problem in your ink.

 

Someone suggested that NaCl would corrode the stainless steel nibs. It's such a small amount.

 

I assume the HCl and/or H2SO4 are used in the production of the dyes.

 

Can one substitute propylene glycol for glycerol? Propylene glycol could alter the viscosity and is a humectant like glycerol. It should help with preventing freezing too.

 

Thanks.

[malpei]

what about the surfactant?

[pharmacist]

The surfactant action is done by the small amount of isopropanol and also by many dyes, as dyes are often charged cationic or anionic molecules, which often change the surface tension of the end solution. If this is not enough one can put drop of two of photographic wetting agent to lower it accordingly. Take care the surfactant is non ionic to prevent possible precipitation reactions.

 

Propylene glycol has similar actions to glycerol, but it is less thick. Both glycols are potable and safe. Not to be confused with the dangerous and toxic diethylene glycol, which will cause nerve damage and blindness.

[SamCapote]

The surfactant action is done by the small amount of isopropanol and also by many dyes, as dyes are often charged cationic or anionic molecules, which often change the surface tension of the end solution. If this is not enough one can put drop of two of photographic wetting agent to lower it accordingly. Take care the surfactant is non ionic to prevent possible precipitation reactions.

 

Propylene glycol has similar actions to glycerol, but it is less thick. Both glycols are potable and safe. Not to be confused with the dangerous and toxic diethylene glycol, which will cause nerve damage and blindness.

 

It's important to remember the tremendous educational, and practical experience that pharmacist has as a background when he he/she gives his his/her pearls of wisdom....and how much the rest of us not only don't know, but don't know that we don't know, but would have wished we knew after the fact. :roflmho:

 

Edit: Corrected sexual bias.

Edited May 13, 2011 by SamCapote

[UltraMagnus]

Drimarene-K looks promising for a dye, since it can be stored for a long time once dissolved in water. Alternatively does anyone know what they use in direct to garment printers?

[malpei]

You guys are getting me to try to make my own ink :roflmho: :roflmho:

 

 

I think I can find all the ingredients pretty easily except the dye

Edited May 13, 2011 by malpei

[bobzoryuncle]

I was afraid that was the case. Originally I figured, mix the fiber reactive dye in a solution of distilled water, pop in a little bit of anti-bacterial soap, and load the pen up. Now it looks like you need a PhD in Chemistry to make ink.

[SamCapote]

Nah, lots of people have experimented. Check the post #201 here.

[UltraMagnus]

I think I can find all the ingredients pretty easily except the dye

This has been exactly my problem, mx dyes are fairly easily available, but other, better, dyes are not.

[tfwall]

I was afraid that was the case. Originally I figured, mix the fiber reactive dye in a solution of distilled water, pop in a little bit of anti-bacterial soap, and load the pen up.

 

 

This will certainly make you a writing fluid. It might not flow the best or be the most stable, but don't let that stop your experimentations.

 

 

Now it looks like you need a PhD in Chemistry to make ink.

 

It's not required, but it helps.

[h_s_shrivastava]

Came here while googling for something else.

 

Just thinking aloud that isn’t there something related to catfish or to noodling which gives a dye or some additive for dye that instantly binds with cellulose at normal tempreture. :hmm1: