Making Fp Ink From Cold-Water Soluble Dye

[bobzoryuncle]

I ran across a cold-water cellulose reactive dye for cotton clothing the other day. A lot of tie dyeing people use this stuff, and I think one guy used it to color heavy card stock. Why not mix up a strong solution of this stuff (example: Procion MX http://www.jacquardproducts.com/products/dyes/procionmx/) and use it as FP ink? Is anyone willing to volunteer a few minutes, an inexpensive Jinhao pen, and a bottle of that dye to mix up a few samples and test my theory out.

 

I believe this stuff might work as an FP ink because it is water soluble at colder/room temps, and is cellulose-reactive like the famous Noodler's inks. It seems to be bloomin' cheap too...

[Dino Silone]

I ran across a cold-water cellulose reactive dye for cotton clothing the other day. A lot of tie dyeing people use this stuff, and I think one guy used it to color heavy card stock. Why not mix up a strong solution of this stuff (example: Procion MX http://www.jacquardproducts.com/products/dyes/procionmx/) and use it as FP ink? Is anyone willing to volunteer a few minutes, an inexpensive Jinhao pen, and a bottle of that dye to mix up a few samples and test my theory out.

 

I believe this stuff might work as an FP ink because it is water soluble at colder/room temps, and is cellulose-reactive like the famous Noodler's inks. It seems to be bloomin' cheap too...

It's an interesting idea, but I'm curious: Why aren't you volunteering the Jinhao and a bottle of that ink to test your own theory out? Have you tried it already, and are just looking for corroboration? Or is there some reason you don't want to try it yourself?

[Pickwick]

You thought up a great idea, why don't you try it for yourself. Remember, the next to lighten all men may be you. I think we would be only too happy for you if you glow with success.

 

Unless of course you would be willing to send the pen and dye to one of us willing to carry this experiment out, also insurance coverage in case it explodes and we become permantly dyed ourselves!!

 

Best wishes,

 

Pickwick.

 

 

[bobzoryuncle]

Oh, I thought someone might already have tried it or was more knowledgeable than me with regard to ink mixing. I'll be throwing my Parker Jotter into the fray (I despise that writing instrument of torture and hope it "suffers" during my Franken-ink experiment) as I test this out.

[bobzoryuncle]

You thought up a great idea, why don't you try it for yourself. Remember, the next to lighten all men may be you. I think we would be only too happy for you if you glow with success.

 

Unless of course you would be willing to send the pen and dye to one of us willing to carry this experiment out, also insurance coverage in case it explodes and we become permantly dyed ourselves!!

 

Best wishes,

 

Pickwick.

 

That's very funny. I like your wit.

[TMA]

Many textile dyes have salts in them, which makes them unsuitable for pen inks. You would want to confirm what else is in the dye powder other than the dye before turning some in to ink.

[notgiven]

I would try it if I have access to this dye. Noodler's bulletproof ink use cellulose reactive dye. I don't know which one, but experimenting is good. It would be great if there is a ingredient list for this dye. I wouldn't want any iron oxide or lake dye in my pen.

[bobzoryuncle]

I just e-mailed the manufacturer of that dye to see if they can tell me anything. I'll keep you posted. BTW I love this forum.

[corniche]

Many textile dyes have salts in them, which makes them unsuitable for pen inks. You would want to confirm what else is in the dye powder other than the dye before turning some in to ink.

 

Greetings Bobzoryuncle, et al,

 

TMA brings up a valid point. Here are a couple of more- you will need to add a surfactant because fountain inks are around 94% water and water has a very high surface tension, (which seriously inhibits flow) AND you will have to add a fungicide, (biocide is the new term), because if you don't, you'll either have mold or SITB... or both in 3-4 days. If Tryphon Enterprises is still around, they used to sell a surfactant and fungicide separately in little vials. Good luck with your experiments... and be gentle with that Parker pen- it can't help it if it was born defective.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

Edited May 5, 2011 by S. P. Colfer

[UltraMagnus]

I have been looking into this myself. I have not done any tests, but from reading the biggest problems seem to be that most reactive dyes have a very short shelf life once mixed with water and the alkaline substance (such as lye) they require to activate them.

 

The surfactant and biocide are comparatively trivial and well documented problems.

 

The was a project at one time to create an open source ink, but shut down several years ago, it would be interesting to restart such a project.

Edited May 5, 2011 by UltraMagnus

[corniche]

The surfactant and biocide are comparatively trivial .............and well documented problems.

 

Greeings UM,

 

Huh? I beg to differ on the first part and I don't where you're going with the second part.

 

- Sean

Edited May 5, 2011 by S. P. Colfer

[UltraMagnus]

The surfactant and biocide are comparatively trivial .............and well documented problems.

 

Greeings UM,

 

Huh? I beg to differ on the first part and I don't where you're going with the second part.

 

- Sean

 

My point is suitable chemicals are well known, phenol or Salicylic acid for a biocide, and photography surfactant can be used. From what I have read the proportions are not all that important either. As I said, it is comparatively, trivial to finding a suitable cellulose reactive dye and determining the correct concentration; I did not mean to imply it is an entirely trivial issue.

[bobzoryuncle]

I found this but I don't know if the article is talking about fiber-reactive dye or not (http://www.ehow.com/how_6795651_mix-dye-ink.html)

[thorn]

Many textile dyes have salts in them, which makes them unsuitable for pen inks. You would want to confirm what else is in the dye powder other than the dye before turning some in to ink.

 

 

Wouldn't the salts remain in solution, even in the pen?

[thorn]

 

AND you will have to add a fungicide, (biocide is the new term), because if you don't, you'll either have mold or SITB... or both in 3-4 days.

 

 

What biocide/funigicide are used in ink now-a-days? Also, won't certain types of bacteria grow in ink?

[Pickwick]

I ran across a cold-water cellulose reactive dye for cotton clothing the other day. A lot of tie dyeing people use this stuff, and I think one guy used it to color heavy card stock. Why not mix up a strong solution of this stuff (example: Procion MX http://www.jacquardp...dyes/procionmx/) and use it as FP ink? Is anyone willing to volunteer a few minutes, an inexpensive Jinhao pen, and a bottle of that dye to mix up a few samples and test my theory out.

 

I believe this stuff might work as an FP ink because it is water soluble at colder/room temps, and is cellulose-reactive like the famous Noodler's inks. It seems to be bloomin' cheap too...

 

My joking around apart, you did get my curiousity going on this subject, so iIdid some research. There was a Forum in FPN on making ink in May 2009 which I looked up. Like your idea it aroused quite a bit of interest, but petered out because of seeming difficulties in obtaining chemicals.

 

I did come across Aniline dyes for the leathercraft industry, and these can be obtained easily. there used with alcohol as a base. Also ehow gives an account about ink making.

 

I'll keep snooping around and see what's available.

 

Kind regards,

 

Pickwick

Edited May 6, 2011 by Pickwick

[notgiven]

Many textile dyes have salts in them, which makes them unsuitable for pen inks. You would want to confirm what else is in the dye powder other than the dye before turning some in to ink.

 

 

Wouldn't the salts remain in solution, even in the pen?

 

Many of these salts are water-insoluble. They are made this way to avoid bleeding and some other reasons. I would imagine the insoluble salts will clog the feed.

 

I am curious about the biocide/funigicide also. Salicylic acid doesn't sound right, if not for the cost alone. I wonder if Potassium Sorbate will work.

[corniche]

 

AND you will have to add a fungicide, (biocide is the new term), because if you don't, you'll either have mold or SITB... or both in 3-4 days.

 

 

What biocide/funigicide are used in ink now-a-days? Also, won't certain types of bacteria grow in ink?

 

Hello Thorn,

 

I'm not sure what biocides are being used by today's ink companies. When I was mixing my inks a few years ago; Dowicil 75 was the norm; prior to that, about 3 decades ago and before- Phenol was the norm. Phenol is no longer available to the general public due to possible health risks. (Except in Cloraseptic throat spray :ltcapd: ).

 

Try to find some of SamCopote's threads on Biocide Shootouts, etc., he did exhaustive research into all different types and styles of biocides and is also on a first name basis with several current ink manufacturers.

 

I'm not sure I follow your second question; yes, certain types of bacteria and fungus do grow in ink; hence the use of biocides to destroy them before they destroy the ink... and perhaps your pen. Hope this answers both of your questions, if not, please lmk.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

Edited May 6, 2011 by S. P. Colfer

[thorn]

Many textile dyes have salts in them, which makes them unsuitable for pen inks. You would want to confirm what else is in the dye powder other than the dye before turning some in to ink.

 

 

Wouldn't the salts remain in solution, even in the pen?

 

Many of these salts are water-insoluble. They are made this way to avoid bleeding and some other reasons. I would imagine the insoluble salts will clog the feed.

 

I am curious about the biocide/funigicide also. Salicylic acid doesn't sound right, if not for the cost alone. I wonder if Potassium Sorbate will work.

 

 

I guess the salts are kind of a mordant for fastness of the dyes?

 

 

I wonder if sodium benzoate would work? I see it listed in food coloring. It needs a lower pH.

[thorn]

 

Hello Thorn,

 

I'm not sure what biocides are being used by today's ink companies. When I was mixing my inks a few years ago; Dowicil 75 was the norm; prior to that, about 3 decades ago and before- Phenol was the norm. Phenol is no longer available to the general public due to possible health risks. (Except in Cloraseptic throat spray :ltcapd: ).

 

Try to find some of SamCopote's threads on Biocide Shootouts, etc., he did exhaustive research into all different types and styles of biocides and is also on a first name basis with several current ink manufacturers.

 

I'm not sure I follow your second question; yes, certain types of bacteria and fungus do grow in ink; hence the use of biocides to destroy them before they destroy the ink... and perhaps your pen. Hope this answers both of your questions, if not, please lmk.

 

 

I was thinking that you were saying only fungus would be a problem.

 

There is a lot of compounds that could work. Chloroxylenol? It's used in antibacterial soaps. There are several name brand biocides: Nuosept, Nopocides, Troysan etc.

 

I think SamCopote found that Sporicidin worked. I think it has phenol. It is interesting that it's still used in throat spray...

 

There are some reactive dyes here:

 

Reactive Dyes Link

 

I would guess they have a minimum order size.

 

Thanks, Greg