How To Start With Dip Pens?

[bbh]

So I've got the pen flu but do in fact have limits on how much I can spend. I've heard that dip pens can be fun, and they certainly seem more affordable than FPs. Does anyone have any recommendations for websites to learn about dip pens, stories about their own use of them, and suggestions as to how one might buy a 'starter set'?

[Mountolive]

I'm a recent convert to dip pens and no expert but I've been playing around with dip pens a lot lately and doing some exploring on the net, and so I can at least give you some links. Some of the more useful websites I have encountered:

 

http://calligraphypen.wordpress.com/2009/01/14/care-and-feeding-of-the-calligraphy-dip-pen/

(some basics)

 

http://www.iampeth.com/lessons_getting_started.php

(a lot of information about nibs, inks, etc., mostly from a calligrapher's standpoint but there are some very useful general articles too).

 

http://hans.presto.tripod.com/penlinks.html

(some links)

 

http://www.jacquiblackman.co.uk/dip_pens.htm

(Some more general information)

 

http://scheong.wordpress.com/2009/12/19/dip-pens-and-their-accessories-2/

(a nice little article)

 

http://calligraphypen.wordpress.com/2009/03/24/troubleshooting-a-calligraphy-dip-pen/

(some useful tips)

 

http://www.calligraphicarts.com/html/products.htm

(a commercial site, but it has a well-organized list of nibs with some short descriptions)

 

http://www.kallipos.de/gb-pointed-nibs.html

(another commercial site with some useful descriptions of nibs)

 

To get started, FPN member jbb is often selling starter sets in the For Sale forum, you can also get very good deals on Ebay on vintage dip pens, and John Neal Booksellers has a lot of modern dip pens, penholders, and related supplies at various prices.

 

Depending on what you are thinking about using the dip pens for (regular writinging, calligraphy, decorative writing, ink drawing, all of the above) you may want to focus on particular types of dip pens. But if you are unsure at this point you might consider trying to get a variety of types of pens and see which ones you like. As you learn more about what you want, you can get some real deals on Ebay. The vintage dip pen market is not nearly as competitive on Ebay as the vintage fountainpen market, and it is still possible to get boxes of dip pens (usually one gross or 144 in a box) for less than $10.

 

For me, the biggest adjustment in writing with dip pens is not the constant dipping of the pen (this actually is not a big deal) but rather adjusting to different types of pens which have very different writing characteristics. For example, I had big problems writing with flexy dip pens at first (they are much more flexy than your typical semi-flex fountainpen); they seemed scratchy, they caught on the paper, etc. But I have have slowly become more comfortable with them and now I have actually started to like them more than the firmer dip pens which were designed specifically for writing.

 

Anyway, more specific advice should come from more knowledgeable members of this forum (and there are many). I am having a lot of fun with dip pens right now; they are relatively cheap and you can play around with them without worrying too much. They seem to come in an endless variety of shapes, sizes, and writing styles, and you can use pretty much anything for ink (although some works better than others).

[Drone]

I have found cheap "Calligraphy Sets" out there to be horrific in terms of nib quality. Try vintage nibs in a decent holder.

 

Have a look here (not affiliated):

 

www.dippens.net

 

They have vintage nibs and some lovely hand-turned dip-pens from exotic woods that seem affordable to me.

 

Regards, David

Edited April 9, 2011 by Drone

[Chris H]

I can't add much to what Mountolive has said. Good advice.

 

I too am a recent dip pen convert. I got sick and tired of the expense of buying fountain pens and repairing fountain pens and then re-repairing fountain pens. With dip pens, clean them to remove the protective oil film (a dip in alcohol does the trick), dip, and write. IMO, the fountain pen only exceeds the dip pen in portability.

 

Back in the day, dip pens came in a large variety due to different uses. Much more than what is available in modern manufacture.

 

EBay is a cheap place to get pens. The seller naragansett offers lots of 2 or 4 pens for about 50 cents per pen. A good way to try out a variety.

 

Pendemonium also has dip pens and holders available.

 

What I like about writing with a dip pen is the extremely light weight. Almost like writing with a feather. I use fountain pen ink for the most part. The more saturated inks are preferable as they adhere to the pen better than the thinner inks.

 

I'm not an "expert" and I don't do anything fancy: just write. After all, that is basically what the steel pen was invented for -- to replace the quill for everyday writing. What we think of as fancy writing, at one time wasn't. It was just writing. And I just write with what I learned in grade school. Nothing fancy.

 

I love using a dip pen. I basically only use my fountain pens when I go into the office or leave the house. I had 20+ inked at one time and now I am slowly retiring them and putting them away. Much of my desk fountain pen use has been replaced by my Esterbrook 444 DipLess Inkwell set. An Esterbrook nib on a pen holder. A dip pen.

 

For your starter set, I would advise to find one at

 

Pendemonium http://www.pendemonium.com/

 

Or naragansett on eBay

 

Or Paper and Ink Arts http://www.paperinkarts.com/

 

www.dippens.net looks good, but I have no experience with them.

 

Good luck. Any questions, pm me if you wish. Can't guarantee an answer, but I might be able to tell you who can help. Sam and Pendemonium is a wealth of knowledge too.

 

Chris

[kuroba]

Wow, so much info. The way I started with dip pens... I just dived in. Went to a couple art supply stores and asked for their nibs. Bought one of every model they had, plus a holder and ink, came home and tried, tried, tried. Many messes later, I found my favourite nib <3

[Chris H]

And maybe that is the best way to start, kuroba: just dive in!

 

Chris

[TMA]

I am one of those who was lucky enough to learn cursive and how to write with a dip pen at the same time (it was a long time ago, JFK had just entered the White House). We simply got a new nib out of the box, inserted it into the pen, dipped and wrote, carefully and slowly, mopping up with blotting paper. And no, I don't know what the ink was, it just came in (to me) a large bottle.

 

What I learnt was that you had to use the pen for a few days until the ink started to stick to the nib properly. What I know now is that a patina of dried ink particles was building upon the nib surface, and that allowed the ink to wet the nib.

 

So, how do you build up a patina on a nib quickly?

1) Clean the new nib. I use an old toothbrush and a tiny drop of detergent, and flush very, very well. You don't want any detergent left on the nib.

2) Take a tissue, put a little spit on it (any source of protein will do, like dilute egg white, but spit is often conveniently available), and wipe it all over the nib. Let it dry.

3) Dip the nib in your ink, which should cover it smoothly. Let the excess run off by tapping against the side of the bottle. Let the remainder dry on the nib. Voila! Instant patina.

Some inks, like Parker Quink Black and PQ Blue, Sheaffer Black and Blue, Iron Gall/Registrar's ink (Mont Blanc, Lamy, Diamine) work well with dip pens.

Others, like the more saturated Private Reserve and Noodler's inks, tend to run off the nib too quickly. This is not a criticism of those inks, they are simply designed to give a rich and lustrous experience with a fountain pen, and you need a thinner and less saturated ink for dip pens.

 

Of course, those inks designed specifically for dip pens, like India Ink and the coloured acrylic calligraphy inks, will work with dip pens with no problems.

 

How do you know if your nib/ink/paper combination is working properly? You should be able to dip the nib, touch the excess ink off, and write for at least 1 1/2 to 2 lines. I can sometimes get up to a paragraph with certain nibs (without a reservoir) but those have quite a fine point.

A nib with a reservoir should let you write for at least 5 lines, and some, like the 'One-Dip' brand nib advertise that you should be able to write at least 600 words. That's one and a half pages of octavo or one full legal pad page.

[Chris H]

Very interesting, TMA. I am inclined to try your method.

 

What I have done is this:

 

1. Immerse the new pen in alcohol to get rid of the oil preservative.

2. Insert in holder.

3. Dip. Rarely need to touch off excess ink.

4. Write.

 

With smaller pens, probably 2 lines max. With larger pens, up to 10 lines.

 

I find thinner inks, like Sheaffer just run off. Perhaps your method will change this. Saturated ink, like Noodler's seems to be perfect.

 

Very interesting experiences.

 

My last year in elementary school was '63-'64 (6th grade). We used pencils. Or ball points. I didn't even know what a dip pen was. Got a Sheaffer Cartridge pen in Junior High School. I think I was the only kid to use one. I have a friend who is 19 years older than I. He used a dip pen in the '40s in school. Bypassed fountain pens and went straight to ballpoints.

 

Well, I'm going to give your method a try.

 

Chris

[xxloverxx]

To build up a patina on the nib (this was before I learnt that you had to clean a nib before using it), I would soak it in ink (whilst in the holder) and leave it to dry (t'would take about 20 mins).

[Mickey]

I'm fairly new to dip pens (actually, returning to them after many, many years). My primary black ink is waterproof when dry, so letting a coat of ink dry on the nib makes for more clean up than I care for.

 

I use inkjet print-head cleaner for the general wipe down. (Probably overkill, but I have some handy.). Steps 2 through 4 are identical: dip the nib into the ink then RUB the ink off with a bit of paper towel, repeat, repeat. After the third iteration, the ink usually wets the nib evenly. The ritual usually doesn't take more than a minute or so.

[Chris H]

Thanks for posting, Mickey. I'll give this method a try too.

 

Chris

[kuroba]

  On 4/10/2011 at 4:43 AM, xxloverxx said:

To build up a patina on the nib (this was before I learnt that you had to clean a nib before using it), I would soak it in ink (whilst in the holder) and leave it to dry (t'would take about 20 mins).

 

Oh, so all those times I let my ink dry on the nib... I wasn't being careless, I was "building a patina"? that's so cool

[Alohamora]

  On 4/9/2011 at 9:05 PM, Chris H said:

...

EBay is a cheap place to get pens. The seller naragansett offers lots of 2 or 4 pens for about 50 cents per pen. A good way to try out a variety.

 

 

+1 for Naragansett on ebay, a pleasure to deal with. Jbb's sets (FPN marketplace) look really nice too.

 

Initially, I was having trouble with uneven ink flow off the nibs and they didn't hold much ink. I read somewhere here on FPN that the protective coating on the nib could be burned off. I did that by passing the nib through a candle flame several times. That made a major improvement in how the nib held ink and how evenly the ink flowed from nib to paper. I don't know if that's really the best method, but it worked for me.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Alohamora

[Dauphni]

The classic way for getting a new nib clean is just putting it in your mouth for a minute. The enzymes in your saliva take care of the rest.

[waterman1924]

  On 4/10/2011 at 7:02 PM, Dauphni said:

The classic way for getting a new nib clean is just putting it in your mouth for a minute. The enzymes in your saliva take care of the rest.

 

Mmmmmmmmmm Yummy... But don't swallow it! :roflmho:

[xxloverxx]

  On 4/10/2011 at 3:39 PM, kuroba said:

  On 4/10/2011 at 4:43 AM, xxloverxx said:

To build up a patina on the nib (this was before I learnt that you had to clean a nib before using it), I would soak it in ink (whilst in the holder) and leave it to dry (t'would take about 20 mins).

 

Oh, so all those times I let my ink dry on the nib... I wasn't being careless, I was "building a patina"? that's so cool

 

Heh, it worked for me! But nowadays, when ink doesn't stick, I hold it over a fire for a few seconds then/or lick it (after cooling).

I do love the sound of a hot nib being dipped into ink. I also like boiling ink by scooping some up with the nib and holding it over a lighter...not sure what that does for me other than provide entertainment.

[lamder]

  On 4/10/2011 at 7:02 PM, Dauphni said:

The classic way for getting a new nib clean is just putting it in your mouth for a minute. The enzymes in your saliva take care of the rest.

 

Spit does work! I use a small square of paper towel to 'facilitate' the transfer .

I had 4-5 nibs among the several dozen I tried recently that didn't take to this measure.

They went under the flame too, and a few improved somewhat. 2-3 I ended up totally giving up on.

 

Sam

Edited April 11, 2011 by lamder

[KyleTehDevil]

ok so i am new to dip pens and have this one on the way. one of the nibs included is flexible and unmarked but supposed to be the Leonardt crown nib. all my research has confused me. first of all, if you dip the nib and leave it to dry to form a patina, wouldn't that clog the nib? then you would have to clean it and wouldn't that remove the patina? second, are thinner or thicker inks better? some people say thinner some say thicker. i have noodlers inks as i am a fountain pen user. how long do nibs last before they rust and become unusable? where can a beginner start to learn copperplate and spencerian handwriting (preferably a free and online source)? where can one learn how to achieve better normal cursive handwriting? my handwriting is quite atrocious. i want to learn and get better but the problem is how? i am also on a very, very small budget. my priciest pen is my TWSBI Mini. pens like the Namiki Falcon would require a lot of saving up. visconti's are only dreams for me and not realities. vintage pens are merely fantasies. i used to be very enthusiastic until i saw the price tags. dip pens have sparked a new fire...

[Drone]

  On 3/30/2013 at 3:25 AM, KyleTehDevil said:

...where can a beginner start to learn copperplate and spencerian handwriting (preferably a free and online source)? where can one learn how to achieve better normal cursive handwriting?

 

Hi KyleTehDevil, welcome to the FPN. (Man, that Avatar of yours is spooooky!)

 

As for some tutorials and videos on penmanship, check out the IAMPETH Web site. IAMPETH stands for International Association of Master Penmen, Engrossers and Teachers of Handwriting (yeah, I know...) The site is here:

 

http://www.iampeth.com/

 

Videos are here:

 

http://www.iampeth.com/videos.php

 

Let us know how you get along. Also, at some point you may want to try an oblique nib holder. Aside from the tutorials and videos, my best advice on how to improve your hand is; practice, practice, practice. There's no substitute. Have fun... David

[Stompie]

Drone is correct - IAMPETH is great for loads of information.

 

You can also go to the Creative Expressions Board here on FPN and look under the Penmanship thread, which will invariablt point you to the IAMPETH site

 

but there you can also post your writing pictures and there are many top class scribes who will give you advise, tips, information etc.

 

Modern nibs are manufactured in machines. Machines use oils to lubricate and facilitate the cutting process. You need to get rid of those oils for your nib to work - clean the nibs before using them. I use vodka and spit. The flame technique is also good but one must be very careful of over heating the nib or you have a negative effect on the metal! And a fraction of a second too long and yoour nib is no longer working as it was manufactured.

 

Fountain pen inks are designed to work in fountain pens. Get an ink for dip pens it will save you a lot of frustration. Yes, one can use fountain pen ink and I do, but I have learnt to treat the ink so that this is possible. As you are starting out you do not want to be troubled with too much information. Higginsons or Walkers iron gall inks are perfect for dip pens.

 

Let us know how you get along!