Interesting Montblanc ?

[Pen Nut]

they took his life away because he didnt deserve it

[georges zaslavsky]

they took his life away because he didnt deserve it

Indeed

[Opooh]

IMHO the seller and the auction house are the ones who are to blame. They don't sell a MB 139, they sell Von Ribbentrops pen. They hope to make a bigger profit by proposing this MB as the pen of a war criminal and that is despicable.

[Ursus]

What an interesting subject! Imagine that a great pen should be sold for 10% of it's value because it belonged to a person of historical significance (which is probably the politest way of putting it). After all, one could always throw away the papers documenting its past and make about a 1000% profit on reselling it... Then it would have ceased to belong to the world of Nazi memorabilia and would simply be a regular pen.

 

Personally, I have always found history to be a fascinating subject and would find it highly interesting to use a pen that had belonged to someone like Ribbentrop - or Stalin for that matter. After all, the purpose of the study of history is to avoid committing the same mistakes that others have made.

If I actually had the pen in my hand I might change my mind on the account of the thought of it all being a little too frightening, but I suppose that its the reaction that we ought to have to certain historical facts... Not all reminders can be pleasant ones.

[Chrissy]

Doing a bit of research on Ribbentrop not sure if it was the right thing to do as he appeared, like the rest of them, to be a high ranking vile chap who, when tried, was rightly hanged. Do I want a pen that has, in its life, probably signed papers that at least helped the war effort and at worst sent people to their deaths? Is that too emotional? Does the famous gun supporting line of “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” apply to pens as well? Anyway I have not retracted my bid, although Mrs Pen Nut says I should, so if I do end up owning it I will post pictures for your viewing and identification.

 

Would the ownership of a pen that had a known ‘sinister’ back ground or owner bother you?

Yes, in this particular case, it would. I'm with Mrs Pen Nut on this one.

[CS388]

IMHO the seller and the auction house are the ones who are to blame. They don't sell a MB 139, they sell Von Ribbentrops pen. They hope to make a bigger profit by proposing this MB as the pen of a war criminal and that is despicable.

 

Absolutely!

 

It is VERY easy to lose a provenance. Just sell the pen with your mouth shut. Then it would have just been a 139.

 

I'm sure they were trying to appeal to collectors of this muck, rather than to pen people. Shame on them.

[Pen Nut]

"What an interesting subject! Imagine that a great pen should be sold for 10% of it's value because it belonged to a person of historical significance (which is probably the politest way of putting it)."

 

If only that was true ! This pen got such a little response for one reason and one reason only and that is quite simply it was put in the incorrect form of auction and no one knew it was up for sale. I only spotted it because I was sent a catalogue due to having a pistol in the auction. No doubt if Bonhams had it in one of their auctions it would have realised a lot more interest and therefore money.

[Joane]

This is such an interesting thread. I've been following it from the beginning. For some reason today I started thinking of it from the pen's point of view: a poor innocent pen is purchased by a master criminal. The pen cries "Help, help!" While being carried away but, as pens can't talk, nobody hears it. For years poor pen is held in slavery and forced to write horrible things but it can't get away. It wouldn't be surprising if, on more than one occasion, the pen tried to get lost but--"Oh, there you are under the sofa cushion," or "I must have dropped it around here in the grass by the side of the woods--oh, there it is!" Perhaps it might even have tried to commit suicide by rolling off a table onto a cement floor..but without success.

 

Poor pen is trapped for years forced to sign the dirty work and then, suddenly it's over and, through we don't know what mechanisms, decades later the pen finds itself on the auction block. "Free at last!" It cries. "Oh, please somebody buy me who has a benevolent heart. Please give me the chance to undo the harm I have been forced to endure and let me write nothing but good things for the rest of my life!"

[prolixbrio]

It wouldn't bother me. Why? As a writer, I would overwrite its history, use it for a noble purpose going forward.

[sunnerd]

If I were the winner of this pen, I would take it to a temple / church / shrine (whatever religion you practise) and get it spiritually cleansed.

Job done.

[GTOZack]

call Father Merrin, if anything bad start to happen down the line after the purchase.

[diosrl]

Maybe this was the pen he used to sign the Ribbentrop- Molotov act which divided my country and somehow started the WW2. I will get that pen if I were you.

 

In addition to stipulations of non-aggression, the treaty included a secret protocol that divided territories of Romania, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Finland into Nazi and Soviet "spheres of influence", anticipating potential "territorial and political rearrangements" of these countries. Thereafter, Germany invaded Poland on 1 September 1939. After the Soviet-Japanese ceasefire agreement took effect on 16 September, Stalin ordered his own invasion of Poland on 17 September.[3] Part of southeastern (Karelia) and Salla region in Finland were annexed by the Soviet Union after the Winter War. This was followed by Soviet annexations of Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Bessarabia, Northern Bukovina and the Hertza region.

 

The pact remained in force until the German government broke it by invading the Soviet Union on 22 June 1941.

[Chrissy]

"What an interesting subject! Imagine that a great pen should be sold for 10% of it's value because it belonged to a person of historical significance (which is probably the politest way of putting it)."

 

If only that was true ! This pen got such a little response for one reason and one reason only and that is quite simply it was put in the incorrect form of auction and no one knew it was up for sale. I only spotted it because I was sent a catalogue due to having a pistol in the auction. No doubt if Bonhams had it in one of their auctions it would have realised a lot more interest and therefore money.

I assume that you won it at a very good price?

[Pen Nut]

I assume that you won it at a very good price?

 

I assume you have not read the thread in full

[Chrissy]

I thought I had, but obviously I missed the relevant 2 posts about it. I originally saw it when it was first posted but somehow managed to rejoin it yesterday and today at page 2. Don't know how I did that. Now I have read every post.

[Pen Nut]

I thought I had, but obviously I missed the relevant 2 posts about it. I originally saw it when it was first posted but somehow managed to rejoin it yesterday and today at page 2. Don't know how I did that. Now I have read every post.

 

Ah you are not alone in this.......sometimes I read my own threads and dont even realise that I started them !

[Chrissy]

I have an excuse though. I'm much older than you

[Pen Nut]

Penderyn whiskey is my excuse How can that be distilled in Wales !

 

anyway pens eh ...... great aint they

[Ursus]

 

Penderyn whiskey is my excuse How can that be distilled in Wales !

 

anyway pens eh ...... great aint they

 

- They are mighty good with mustard, as good old W. C. would probably have said. And the ink is great too: 95 percent proof. - It makes the world all colurful. I flush my throat with it ten to forty times a day to keep it clean - not to speak of the nights. I once ran out of ink; I had to live on food and water for an entire day. No, wait, that's not ink... oh, what do they call it...? Stupid D.T. I should have listened to my poor old mother and little aunt Augusta. Well, the bottle is blue anyway and used to contain 1,75 litres and it has a queen on it. - Not the one from the banknotes, but another queen; how many are there anyway... and how do they decide who shall wear the crown. Is Buckingham Palace a time share? And is there any ham in Buckingham at all (you know, ham like in ma'am)... I think that there are ducks in the park, but they hardly count.

 

If my humour does not improve, one of these days my wife will kill me - that is, when she comes back. I love W. C. Fields' humour, but it's mighty catchy. You have to watch a depressing Danish art film every night for a week to make all that funny stuff go away again.

[Pen Nut]

- They are mighty good with mustard, as good old W. C. would probably have said. And the ink is great too: 95 percent proof. - It makes the world all colurful. I flush my throat with it ten to forty times a day to keep it clean - not to speak of the nights. I once ran out of ink; I had to live on food and water for an entire day. No, wait, that's not ink... oh, what do they call it...? Stupid D.T. I should have listened to my poor old mother and little aunt Augusta. Well, the bottle is blue anyway and used to contain 1,75 litres and it has a queen on it. - Not the one from the banknotes, but another queen; how many are there anyway... and how do they decide who shall wear the crown. Is Buckingham Palace a time share? And is there any ham in Buckingham at all (you know, ham like in ma'am)... I think that there are ducks in the park, but they hardly count.

 

If my humour does not improve, one of these days my wife will kill me - that is, when she comes back. I love W. C. Fields' humour, but it's mighty catchy. You have to watch a depressing Danish art film every night for a week to make all that funny stuff go away again.

 

and for those of us that live on planet earth ????