Parker Beta

[streeton]

The problem is some of these LUXOR made pens are making their way out of India. How do I know? well I was the victim of a so called "genuine" Parker (made for the Indian market only). The pen is a gold plated jotter with the Harlequin Shield design made famous by the Parker 45 Harlequin 80. Actually I don't mind being the "victim" in this case because it is a beautiful pen. You can still get them on Ebay at the moment. I also purchased some "genuine" Parker ballpoint refills - when I rec'd them I saw they were for sale to the Indian market only. What are PARKER doing about these domestic Indian products making their way out of India AND being sold as "genuine" PARKER?.

Edited June 18, 2010 by streeton

[bluemoon]

  On 6/18/2010 at 3:55 AM, streeton said:

The problem is some of these LUXOR made pens are making their way out of India. How do I know? well I was the victim of a so called "genuine" Parker (made for the Indian market only). The pen is a gold plated jotter with the Harlequin Shield design made famous by the Parker 45 Harlequin 80. Actually I don't mind being the "victim" in this case because it is a beautiful pen. You can still get them on Ebay at the moment. I also purchased some "genuine" Parker ballpoint refills - when I rec'd them I saw they were for sale to the Indian market only. What are PARKER doing about these domestic Indian products making their way out of India AND being sold as "genuine" PARKER?.

 

Well, a LUXOR made Parker jotter retails in India for around 4$ (as far as I can remember, 1 yr ago). A Parker refill is around 0.5$. So, If one can sell them outside India, a bit of profit is there.

There is quite a lot of variation in Vector and Jotter line in India which is not available outside India, and it may be attractive to overseas customers.

 

And yes, this Parkers are GENUINE Parkers. They are made under license from Parker, with their design and specification, maybe with a bit of customization to fit local market. So I don't see any reason why they will not qualify as genuine Parkers. I have used USA made and Indian made jotters/vectors, and I assure you, there is no difference in quality.

 

I find Argentinian and Brazilian made Parker 51/61's quite attractive. Do you think they are not "genuine" Parkers?

 

In Canada I see many big labels like CK, Guess, Levis, all products are Made in Mexico/Thailand/Bangladesh etc. So, should I draw a conclusion, they are not "genuine" CK, Guess or Levis?

 

And if we truly believe, that products made for a certain market should not be sold in another market, I wonder if any of us would have a Pilot Custom fountain pen.

 

Actually, this reasoning is quite useless, In today's world of global online business. If you want to buy a product, you can buy it, if the price is acceptable for the buyer, and profitable for seller.

[streeton]

The point is when I buy a genuine recent parker that tells me they come from USA, UK or France or China (except in the case of China it is not inscribed on the pen). Pens made under licence are NOT genuine parkers by licencing definitions if they are sold outside that country. They are made for domestic Indian consumption at a price point which I take means a lesser quality standard given that the Indian market has such a huge population of people it can sell to. Now if the seller tells me they are Parker pens made under licence then that is a different story and I am an informed buyer. These Indian made pens also have no country of origin inscribed on them. I am not disputing their quality (that is my absolute right as a consumer to decide) but as a consumer I want the full facts so that I can make an informed buying decision. Of course a seller will not say they are made under licence in India because 1) he knows that is less sales for him and 2)the seller is not supposed to be selling them outside India.

[aditya.shevade]

The real point is - licensed under parker or not, there is absolutely no thought given to quality control IMO. If you buy 2 Vectors or Betas manufactured in the same lot, having the same nib (F/M I have not seen broad nib yet) you will see they write differently.

 

Moreover, the line skips, the thickness is not uniform, many nibs are scratchy. My friend owns a stationery shop and I was sitting with him with a box full of nibs till I finally found a good nib after trying out about a dozen. I have been using that Vector for over 7 years now, but in general, they lack in the quality and yet you may just get lucky and find a very good (or very horrible) pen.

 

There are many other local brands which have similar writing experience. Even the Chinese Hero pens, which are sold little over a dollar here in India are almost the same as the vectors or betas which are about two to five times the cost of Hero pens.

[PenFan95]

The Vectors write bad enough, just think how bad a pen worse than the Vector would be

 

As for BETA, it is a word which is used to denote 'Tester'. This is used for pre-release testers and come before the real product, so they might be saying that this is the first Parker anyone would buy to test the quality of the brand...I know it sounds ridiculous, but hey...it's SOMETHING!

 

As for maintaining Parker as a luxury brand...maybe they think Waterman sounds classier? If not, then maybe it's because it's a common misconception that L.E. Waterman Invented the Fountain Pen, and that's what helps to sell it. It's no secret that Newell-Rubbermaid is full of bumbling idiots I'm a fan of Waterman pens, but I love Parker equally, if not more.

 

It's a shock to see that the pen company with only two pens (Ideal and Hundred Year) now has such a wide range, while the pen company with so many ranges now has only a few good pens...well, atleast the modern Duofolds are still excellent high-end marque pens.

Edited March 9, 2011 by PenFan95

[PenFan95]

  On 7/18/2010 at 4:36 AM, aditya.shevade said:

The real point is - licensed under parker or not, there is absolutely no thought given to quality control IMO. If you buy 2 Vectors or Betas manufactured in the same lot, having the same nib (F/M I have not seen broad nib yet) you will see they write differently.

 

Moreover, the line skips, the thickness is not uniform, many nibs are scratchy. My friend owns a stationery shop and I was sitting with him with a box full of nibs till I finally found a good nib after trying out about a dozen. I have been using that Vector for over 7 years now, but in general, they lack in the quality and yet you may just get lucky and find a very good (or very horrible) pen.

 

There are many other local brands which have similar writing experience. Even the Chinese Hero pens, which are sold little over a dollar here in India are almost the same as the vectors or betas which are about two to five times the cost of Hero pens.

 

That's because Parker is not a company, it's a BRAND.

[ballpointpen]

The Beta is not the only unusual style of Parker pen produced under licence by Luxor. Those of you that trawl Ebay may occasionally notice gold-plated patterned Jotters - similar to the gold-plated 50th Anniversary model, the Golden Edition Jotter - these Jotters have been noted with a Harlequin and Grid pattern, and very attractive they are, too. They are plate number 156 found in 55 Years of the Parker Ballpoint Pen.

Graham Hogg

 

Chairman Writing Equipment Society

www.wesonline.org.uk

www.ballpointpen.co.uk

[streeton]

  On 3/30/2011 at 10:57 PM, ballpointpen said:

The Beta is not the only unusual style of Parker pen produced under licence by Luxor. Those of you that trawl Ebay may occasionally notice gold-plated patterned Jotters - similar to the gold-plated 50th Anniversary model, the Golden Edition Jotter - these Jotters have been noted with a Harlequin and Grid pattern, and very attractive they are, too. They are plate number 156 found in 55 Years of the Parker Ballpoint Pen.

Graham Hogg

 

Chairman Writing Equipment Society

www.wesonline.org.uk

www.ballpointpen.co.uk

I have the Harlequin BP Jotter from Luxor and is indeed a stunning pen. Mine was sold as Genuine Parker (no mention of Luxor) which I believe is just a little mischievous.

 

Edited to add: - these pens from Luxor do not have a country of origin stamped on the cap but they are still date coded like regular Parkers. Also the packaging states they are for sale in India only - but that doesn't worry some ebay sellers.

Edited March 31, 2011 by streeton

[M@rtin]

About 30 years ago a plastic-cheap versions of P45 (FP and BP)were sold here...(made in Argentina)

[MisterP]

Probably not fakes. Parker licence manufacturing for the Indian Market to a company called Luxor. They mostly assemble Jotters & Vectors from components supplied from Europe (Nantes), and they also have developed some pens of their own. I think that the beta must be one of these.

[Aislingean]

I have a ''LUXOR'' BHR piston filler with an ink view area in the barrel that dates from the 1930's.

Or so I thought!

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g297/Aislingean/th_DSCF0148.jpg

 

I had always assumed it was made in Germany!

Are you all now telling me that "Luxor" has always been an Indian brand and my 80 year old is some 3rd tier modern mass market product?

Still if you are I will have a chance of getting the replacement blind cap that I have been searching for!

Cheers

Dave

[Jerome Tarshis]

Actually, no. There is not one posting to this thread that says that what appears to be an 80-year-old piston filler made in Germany is actually a third-tier pen made recently in India. That would have been good news, in a sense. Good luck with finding a replacement blind cap. Life is full of happy surprises. But whether the pen was made in Germany or in India, its manufacturer would be rather unlikely to have parts for it.

 

Somewhere, however, there is a drawer full of disjecta membra by way of mismatched old parts for pens long out of manufacture, and in that drawer is the desired replacement cap. Part of the art of life is finding that drawer, or its equivalent in other searches. Consider asking around among people who repair pens and might take an interest in prewar German piston fillers. Consider also that there may be workarounds. When a piston mechanism failed for me and the manufacturer couldn't replace it, a pen-repairing friend applied a rough-and-ready fix that worked. There may be another cap that fits.

 

ETA: I am sorry for the tone of my earlier posting, and would have apologized to Dave in a PM except that I have made a fool of myself to the entire forum and owe an apology to the entire forum. Upon rereading Aislingean's posting I see that he was almost certainly writing in jest. Even if his pen had been made 80 years ago in India he would have little hope of buying a replacement blind cap from the manufacturer; I myself have been out of luck with far more recent pens, and I should think many of us have had the same experience, while some have been happily surprised.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Jerome Tarshis

[mturk]

  On 6/18/2010 at 3:55 AM, streeton said:

The problem is some of these LUXOR made pens are making their way out of India. How do I know? well I was the victim of a so called "genuine" Parker (made for the Indian market only). The pen is a gold plated jotter with the Harlequin Shield design made famous by the Parker 45 Harlequin 80. Actually I don't mind being the "victim" in this case because it is a beautiful pen. You can still get them on Ebay at the moment. I also purchased some "genuine" Parker ballpoint refills - when I rec'd them I saw they were for sale to the Indian market only. What are PARKER doing about these domestic Indian products making their way out of India AND being sold as "genuine" PARKER?.

 

Actually, these pens are "genuine Parker" in the legal sense. For years, Montblanc metal bodied pens where made by Brossard und Erhard (sp). Did that not make them "genuine" Montblancs?

[PenFan95]

  On 11/2/2006 at 7:20 PM, JohanO said:

hummmmm.

 

I visited the Indian website and read the description of the Beta:

 

"An exclusive range of Parker Pens! Didn't you know how prestigious and Proud, one becomes when he holds a Parker pen with him!Just the ideal gift to enjoy moments of pride and smily gestures last forever!"

 

hummmm, I think this is rather, eh, ridiculous.... <_<

 

It's not ridiculous...it's brand marketing Well, then again...they're sort of synonymous these days

Edited April 12, 2011 by PenFan95

[streeton]

  On 4/12/2011 at 12:22 AM, mturk said:

  On 6/18/2010 at 3:55 AM, streeton said:

The problem is some of these LUXOR made pens are making their way out of India. How do I know? well I was the victim of a so called "genuine" Parker (made for the Indian market only). The pen is a gold plated jotter with the Harlequin Shield design made famous by the Parker 45 Harlequin 80. Actually I don't mind being the "victim" in this case because it is a beautiful pen. You can still get them on Ebay at the moment. I also purchased some "genuine" Parker ballpoint refills - when I rec'd them I saw they were for sale to the Indian market only. What are PARKER doing about these domestic Indian products making their way out of India AND being sold as "genuine" PARKER?.

 

Actually, these pens are "genuine Parker" in the legal sense. For years, Montblanc metal bodied pens where made by Brossard und Erhard (sp). Did that not make them "genuine" Montblancs?

 

Frankly I don't care whether they are made in India or not, as a buyer I just want to be informed. Remember on ebay you can't touch or properly see anything, you have to rely on the sellers honest description. I can then make up my own mind. It seems like people want to protect sellers who only provide half truths about a pen.

[bob_hayden]

I have owned many cheap Parkers over the years including Vectors, Reflexes and now Betas. In my experience the Betas have been the best of the lot! For the others, my experience has been that the UK Parkers were better than the USA Parkers which in turn were better than the Luxor/Indian pens in general. But the Beta seems to be an exception. There is a review of the Beta elsewhere on this site.